HMDI and CC issues

EDGE

EDGE

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I'm getting concern about HMDI right now. I learn about this person who brought DVD-HD player and plug to his HDTV that has both have HMDI support to plug that way, he get a beautiful display.

There is huge problem that it will not show closed caption support only that can have one optional: subtitle.

» Source
 
yea i am not surprised that they dont support. i have noticed that there is big issue with HDMI and components cables that dont work well with CC even if my two hdtvs' digital /analog CC are on. only it works with s-video or RGB cables.
 
Hmm? Components cables is RGB cables. I think you mean Composite video which support CC blah blah.

deafclimber said:
yea i am not surprised that they dont support. i have noticed that there is big issue with HDMI and components cables that dont work well with CC even if my two hdtvs' digital /analog CC are on. only it works with s-video or RGB cables.
Click to expand...
 
EDGE said:
Hmm? Components cables is RGB cables. I think you mean Composite video which support CC blah blah.
Click to expand...

i speak of blue, green and red wires which is component cable. if i meant RGB, then it is yellow, red and white cable. ya know. :)
 
Really? not surprised...

It seems not worth to get HD-DVD or BD player but I need HD-DVD add-on for Xbox 360 because some new games would start make on HD-DVD formant instead of DVD but games can play without HDMI, just plug via component cable, VGA or S-Video.

I haven't test with HD-DVD player but done with BD movies and picture quality is much crisper and nice but not superior and no true HD as like HD-DVD movies do. HD-DVD player got higher consumer rate than BD player does, also BD has alot of negative.

That's up to Sony to make BD went fail, also happen with Betamax.
 
deafclimber said:
i speak of blue, green and red wires which is component cable. if i meant RGB, then it is yellow, red and white cable. ya know. :)
Click to expand...

ha. Composite video is yellow, red and white cable.

RGB stand for red, green and blue which what component cable is. :P
 
This is basically why they made a new logo, "SDH" (Subtitles for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing).

Hope all will follow suit though.
 
I'm sure that all of you need get CI and take speech therapy then you can listen what tv said. :D
 
EDGE said:
I'm getting concern about HMDI right now. I learn about this person who brought DVD-HD player and plug to his HDTV that has both have HMDI support to plug that way, he get a beautiful display.

There is huge problem that it will not show closed caption support only that can have one optional: subtitle.

» Source
Click to expand...

This problem is well "unwritten" documented for few years since HDTV become popular.. CC on TV in analog mode cannot decode any screen output any other than 480i.. If you set it to 480p or higher, it just not sending required VBI info to TV.

A good example of this: XBOX can play DVD and pass the CC without ANY problem. HOWEVER, the new XBOX-360 does not work with CC!! Why? there is NO OPTIONS for 480i.. It only have 480p, 720p and 1080p..

I have a Cox HD DVR which has built in CC which does decoding and send the so-called opened-captioned to your TV regardless of what output setting is set to.. However, recent software upgrade made many CC shows under that DVR were "flashing" the captions - not giving me a chance to read it before clearing the texts. I had to turn that feature off and set my DVR to 480i so TV can decode it correctly. But that would give me poorer picture quality in order to see CC.

We need to get FCC to update the rules to apply to new technologies, including able to send CC via any sources including HDMI in digital mode. I have seen too many HD shows on cable and OTA (over the air) is not being closed captioned as analog show would.

Richard
 
HDMI on my HDTV works fine

Today, I installed HDMI cable between my HDTV (Sony KDS-55A2000) and Cox DVR. The closed captions work fine on analog and HD channels. Unfortunately, some cable companies may not provide full data information thru HDMI. If any of you continue to have problem with HDMI and closed captioned, please report the problem to your local cable TV companies. FCC already required all video equipments to be compatible for CC (Telecommunications Act of 1996). Thank you.

Steven
 
SM7784 said:
Today, I installed HDMI cable between my HDTV (Sony KDS-55A2000) and Cox DVR. The closed captions work fine on analog and HD channels. Unfortunately, some cable companies may not provide full data information thru HDMI. If any of you continue to have problem with HDMI and closed captioned, please report the problem to your local cable TV companies. FCC already required all video equipments to be compatible for CC (Telecommunications Act of 1996). Thank you.

Steven
Click to expand...

you mean Cox DVR's Bulti-in Closed Caption and to HDTV's off closed caption, they will work closed caption, but if Cox DVR's off CC and HDTV's CC on will not work?
 
I set CC on on both HDTV and Cox DVR. If I turned Cox DVR's CC off, then CC will not show up on my HDTV but it will show CC on analog TV (connected to DVR). I use composite for analog TV and HDMI for HDTV.

FYI - I set up cable directly to analog TV and compare the video between analog TV and HDTV. I found out that Cox DVR had to re-process the signal and caused about two seconds delay. My old analog TV had two different video inputs (one from cable directly and composite from Cox DVR).

I also tested to verify if Cox DVR would record a program and preserve CC (yes for 1080i and 480i at the same time). If you want to record a program from Cox DVR directly on your DVD recorder or VHS recorder, you would only save CC in 480i output only.

Hopefully, it answers all of your questions.

Thank you.

Steven
 
RichardDeaf, exactly.

However, there's no easy way to add captions to many of these cable standards, so the FCC rule that I recommend is that it is now the boxs' responsibility to do the caption decoding before ANY component or digital output or HDTV output (because there is usualy no way to pass captions over those)

Notice how cable/satellite HDTV boxes now have builtin caption decoder?
Notice how many software DVD players (i.e. WinDVD) have a builtin caption decoder?

Therefore:
If it's a HDDVD player, it must also have a caption decoder builtin.
If it's a BluRay player, it must also have a caption decoder builtin.
If it's a DVD player with HDMI/HDCP/480P+ outputs, it must also have a caption decoder builtin.
If it's a TiVo or Slingbox, it must also have a caption decoder builtin.

As simple as that. Copy the move that cable boxes and software DVD players did, and build in the caption decoder. If it's possible to pass it along on the cables, sure do it, but all modern boxes must also have a builtin caption decoder.

It's cheap enough to do now. Mandate it. Make it law to put caption decoders in all boxes. (And if the digital interconnect has caption transport capability (and not all standards provide a provision for this), standardize it so that there's a "caption is on" flag, so that no further decoding needs to be done -- no overlapping captions anymore. Solve the DVD-subtitles-and-TV-captions overlapping problem)

This the only easy way to solve this mess - put the decoder in all boxes. You then only need to turn it on, in one of the boxes.

-The New Law In Plain English:-
"Any box with any HDTV-output / digital-output / progressive-scan-output, MUST have a built-in caption decoder"
 
I just got Tivo3 (HD dual tuner DVR) which I am using HDMI connector to HDTV.. The CC works flawlessly since TIVO has excellent built in CC decoder in all formats (analog, SD, and HD format) at 1080i mode. The TV does not do any decoding as TV only support CC at 480i format for analog signals or digital CC at other modes.

Too bad this Tivo3 doesn't have built in DVD player!!


Mark Rejhon said:
RichardDeaf, exactly.

However, there's no easy way to add captions to many of these cable standards, so the FCC rule that I recommend is that it is now the boxs' responsibility to do the caption decoding before ANY component or digital output or HDTV output (because there is usualy no way to pass captions over those)

Notice how cable/satellite HDTV boxes now have builtin caption decoder?
Notice how many software DVD players (i.e. WinDVD) have a builtin caption decoder?

Therefore:
If it's a HDDVD player, it must also have a caption decoder builtin.
If it's a BluRay player, it must also have a caption decoder builtin.
If it's a DVD player with HDMI/HDCP/480P+ outputs, it must also have a caption decoder builtin.
If it's a TiVo or Slingbox, it must also have a caption decoder builtin.

As simple as that. Copy the move that cable boxes and software DVD players did, and build in the caption decoder. If it's possible to pass it along on the cables, sure do it, but all modern boxes must also have a builtin caption decoder.

It's cheap enough to do now. Mandate it. Make it law to put caption decoders in all boxes. (And if the digital interconnect has caption transport capability (and not all standards provide a provision for this), standardize it so that there's a "caption is on" flag, so that no further decoding needs to be done -- no overlapping captions anymore. Solve the DVD-subtitles-and-TV-captions overlapping problem)

This the only easy way to solve this mess - put the decoder in all boxes. You then only need to turn it on, in one of the boxes.

-The New Law In Plain English:-
"Any box with any HDTV-output / digital-output / progressive-scan-output, MUST have a built-in caption decoder"
Click to expand...
 
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