Hearing in a Deaf world

vfr said:
I have had 4 people come up to me this week at gally ..begging me to do their work because they fucked around, and now it is time for finals and final projects.

at gally there are terps, note takers ,tutors ,and more ..and people still complain and people still fail out. their fault! my god you must be drunk 24/7 or as dumb as a rock to fail gally! i tutor grad students ,and i know they could have done it them selves if they had not been partying all day on saturday......i was at the party too...but i do not have big freaking project due!!
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:shock:

People are practically having their hands held at gally and they're too busy partying? Damn, wish I could go to a party...I guess I spend time on the Internet, so I guess that's my party. Not staying on long, but I find it revolting that people can't get their school work done. Many a Friday night, one can find me down at the local Perkins drinking coffee and doing my schoolwork because the library is closed. Saturday night, the same thing. I need to work these last few weeks to get my grades up, so this is pressure for me. No, I am not cramming...that's done the night before an exam. I don't do that. Neither do I mix no-doz and coffee and pull an all-nighter, as I'm getting too damn old for that crap.

I think the students need to grow up and settle down with their books. If they don't understand something, this is the time to get it taken care of, although it is kinda late and there's a lot of work to do. They can do it if they try.
 
travisdoesmath said:
"tit for tat" means whatever *I* have done, you do back to *ME* .. if you're walking down the street and someone punches you, you can't hit some other random person and claim it's "tit for tat", you're just as guilty as the person who did it to you.

Likewise, you have no right to blame ME for what OTHER hearing people have done. You want to get on me for things I have personally done, fine, but to act like you have the right to discriminate against me simply because I'm hearing is BULLSHIT.
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That's right, travis, but at the same time, if you say something to me (or any other hearie) and I ask you to repeat more than once, you do not have the right to say to me, "You deaf or somethin'?" That happened to me once and I stated I was. I watched, then broke out in a smile on my face when the guy's girlfriend took her arms off the guy's shoulder and moved toward the window in the front seat. :mrgreen: I'm more than nice and I believe you have something of importance to tell me, so repeat it more than once if I need it, okay? What is the big deal? This is what it comes down to, travis. "tit for tat" is used when I perceive people aren't tolerant of hoh/deaf and I sense their attitude with me. They should be treated as such...like this :fu: and life goes on. No, I wasn't giving you the double-one finger salute, that's reserved for the people who don't want to exert themselves but expect deaf/hoh to do it to them. I had an aunt that was a first grade teacher and she fit this description of that to a T. She had no time for "dum dums." Her words...and she was a teacher of 1st graders.

In all, travis, no hard feelings, but you have to understand what most, if not all of us have endured. Trust me, you do not want to experience it. Truce?
 
Heath said:
Please type more clearly... I tried to figure out what you say????? Thanks Heath
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I can understand what he was typing, Heath....I've seen this kind of posts before and it's clear to me what LMM is saying. :)
 
flyfishfemme said:
Travis, I am not accepted in Deaf culture at 100%, just because I can speak very well and uses SEE or PSE thru out to my adult life until my son changed my life and I learned more about & use ASL for 9 yrs now. Me very receptive ASL but me ASL sign so-so. So I'm not in the Deaf culture's core 100%.

I understand LMM's writings because I am so used to my deaf friends using ASL in their writings. I can translate pretty well. Sometimes they ask me for help in their english writing on resume, formal letters, etc. Every time I throw in a new word or vocabulary, they ask "what that mean?" and I tend to explain it without being selfish.
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I'm the same way here, FlyFish. :) I am also in between two worlds because I am an oral deaf (but I do know sign also), and yes, I can understand LMM's writings too. He's easy to translate. :)
 
pek1 said:
That's right, travis, but at the same time, if you say something to me (or any other hearie) and I ask you to repeat more than once, you do not have the right to say to me, "You deaf or somethin'?" That happened to me once and I stated I was. I watched, then broke out in a smile on my face when the guy's girlfriend took her arms off the guy's shoulder and moved toward the window in the front seat. :mrgreen: I'm more than nice and I believe you have something of importance to tell me, so repeat it more than once if I need it, okay? What is the big deal? This is what it comes down to, travis. "tit for tat" is used when I perceive people aren't tolerant of hoh/deaf and I sense their attitude with me. They should be treated as such...like this :fu: and life goes on. No, I wasn't giving you the double-one finger salute, that's reserved for the people who don't want to exert themselves but expect deaf/hoh to do it to them. I had an aunt that was a first grade teacher and she fit this description of that to a T. She had no time for "dum dums." Her words...and she was a teacher of 1st graders.

In all, travis, no hard feelings, but you have to understand what most, if not all of us have endured. Trust me, you do not want to experience it. Truce?
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It does not bother me in the slightest if someone should ask me to repeat something more than once. Heck, even with my hearing I've done it to people. ;)

Anyway, the "big deal" about the way you worded your post is that you were talking about "hearies" as if that were ALL hearing people, as if we had ALL wronged you in some way, and we all had earned your suspicion or distrust. Let me be totally blunt: that post appeared bigoted and that's why several of us called you out on it. (Notice I did not call YOU personally a bigot--I said that what you WROTE looked that way, and those are two very different things.) If that is not what you meant, then clarifying would be a VERY good thing. My basic point again: better to judge people by their own personal words and actions, rather than by physical characteristics they can't control, and that have ZERO correlation with integrity of character.
 
Rose Immortal said:
It does not bother me in the slightest if someone should ask me to repeat something more than once. Heck, even with my hearing I've done it to people. ;)

Anyway, the "big deal" about the way you worded your post is that you were talking about "hearies" as if that were ALL hearing people, as if we had ALL wronged you in some way, and we all had earned your suspicion or distrust. Let me be totally blunt: that post appeared bigoted and that's why several of us called you out on it. (Notice I did not call YOU personally a bigot--I said that what you WROTE looked that way, and those are two very different things.) If that is not what you meant, then clarifying would be a VERY good thing. My basic point again: better to judge people by their own personal words and actions, rather than by physical characteristics they can't control, and that have ZERO correlation with integrity of character.
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I agree wholeheartedly with this.
 
Rose Immortal said:
It does not bother me in the slightest if someone should ask me to repeat something more than once. Heck, even with my hearing I've done it to people. ;)

Anyway, the "big deal" about the way you worded your post is that you were talking about "hearies" as if that were ALL hearing people, as if we had ALL wronged you in some way, and we all had earned your suspicion or distrust. Let me be totally blunt: that post appeared bigoted and that's why several of us called you out on it. (Notice I did not call YOU personally a bigot--I said that what you WROTE looked that way, and those are two very different things.) If that is not what you meant, then clarifying would be a VERY good thing. My basic point again: better to judge people by their own personal words and actions, rather than by physical characteristics they can't control, and that have ZERO correlation with integrity of character.
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Rose,

No, I never said that regarding hearies, not even implied it.

I agree with what vfr said, as the deaf at gally want others to do their work for them.

At the same time, when I ask for something to be repeated, I don't expect a, "See me after class," as one professor told me. I find that offensive. Let me ask this...suppose Travis here doesn't understand asl and he's in a class or out in the community and just happens to start using it with another deaf, should a deaf person say to him, "Nope, not repeating..." That would be just as bigoted as you had said.

I see what you're saying, but I also see it as a one-sided argument to get [most] hearies off the hook and that "not all hearies are like that." I agree, not all hearies are like that, but, at the same time, if they have something IMPORTANT to say, they will repeat it. I know hearies all too well and personally don't care what their own excuses are when it comes to not wanting to repeat what they've said. I don't ask for people to repeat if I heard it, I ask for a repeat...as many times as it takes...until I understand what they're saying. If they don't want to repeat, then it's not important, is it?

To reiterate, if they don't want to repeat, that's fine...then they have nothing of value to say. [Hearies] Have dug their own graves and they've been called on it, so they might as well pay the piper and own up to what they've done...not all of them, I understand that...just the ones that know better. Furthermore, they shouldn't be crying discrimination or prejudice because the deaf treat them in a certain way because of the way they've been treated in the past. Personally, I am more than happy to cut slack for the hearie, but they need to do the same for me.

In addition, suppose you travel to another country...let's use Sweden as an example, shall we? Swedes would help a person out if their Swedish was rough and the traveler couldn't speak it very well. I took Swedish for a quarter and I swear it's the hardest language I've ever tried to learn, but my instructor was a Swede native and very patient, helping me pronounce even the easiest of words. Most deaf are the same way and will repeat signs, so why won't hearies repeat?
 
Statements like this are the problem in your attitude:

I know hearies all too well and personally don't care what their own excuses are when it comes to not wanting to repeat what they've said.
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You do not know me. You have no idea who I am. You have no idea about the places I've lived, the friends I've had, and you have never had the opportunity to "shadow" me for a while and watch how I go about my daily life. So don't start giving me crap about knowing what all of us "hearies" are like.

What I am trying to get you to do is to quit casting aspersions against those who have never done a thing to you. Those hearing people who have treated you badly--they PERSONALLY are responsible for what they have done and I hope the consequences catch up with them because they are absolutely, positively in the wrong. We completely agree on that point. If I see that sort of behavior I will act to discourage it, and I will always be vigilant to make sure I don't accidentally do it. But making snotty remarks about an entire group of people that numbers in the billions is completely out of line and there is no way to justify it.

You acknowledge that there are good people among us--yet you continue to write hateful, bigoted things. That's like hating all black people, then getting to know a black person and realizing they're OK--but going on hating all other black people except the one because the one you know must be some sort of freakish assumption. I have been trying to avoid being so blunt in my previous posts, but this has reached a point where I can no longer mince words.

And since when is "discrimination" only possible by hearing white straight Christian males (to put all possible majority groups into one)? Are you going to tell me it is not possible for deaf people to discriminate? And are you going to tell me it is not WRONG--and EQUALLY wrong--to do so? A sin is a sin, and equally so, regardless of who commits it.

I hold people responsible for their actions equally unless a person is mentally challenged or a small child too young to understand. To do otherwise would be to equate reasoning adults with unreasoning children--it would be an insult that I cannot and will not commit against a person. And frankly, I do not care about a person's past when it comes to how I assess the quality of a person's character. You can let your past make you stronger and wiser and more compassionate--or you can let it make you weaker and more hateful. That's a choice that is totally down to the individual--no one else makes that choice for you. When it comes to character, I don't care that their mom didn't like them or their grades were bad in school or that they happened to be born blind or whatever.

That doesn't mean I feel no sympathy for any heartache they may experience. I don't like the idea of people feeling pain. But unfortunately pain is a reality for everyone in their own way--and yes, hearing people go through their own private pains. Each and every one of us in this world does. No one is perfect...and boy did the One born to woman who WAS perfect suffer pain. So there are NO exceptions in this world and I'm not going to start doing comparisons between people of how much pain they have suffered because I can't get into their heads and feel exactly what they have to make that comparison.

But what makes or breaks a person in my mind is how they REACT TO and DEAL WITH those hurtful experiences--in other words, the choices they make. I care about what that person made of their life and their circumstances--whether or not they were able to overcome their challenges with integrity of character. I care about that person's words and actions. "The best indicator of future performance is past performance." I care about what a person DID, not what they physically ARE. And if I decide I don't like a particular person's behavior, I sure as hell am not going to take that out on all people who share uncontrollable characteristics with them. Your issues are your issues. They do not reflect on anybody else who may be similar to you.

I will not tolerate it when a hearing person discriminates against a deaf person, or any other cases when a majority person discriminates against a minority. There are few quicker ways to get me to lose my temper than to do that in front of me. So if I saw someone refusing to repeat something to a deaf person, or making some kind of smartass joke, I'd give that person a piece of my mind. But just the same, I do not tolerate discrimination by minorities against majorities. And you know why? Because I believe that minorities have the exact same capacity for intelligent and ethical thought and behavior as majorities. And with the same capacity comes the exact, equal burden of responsibility for them, to exercise those gifts responsibly. I will not sell people short. Both types of discrimination are born out of the same hateful spirit and immature mindset--both reflect the same flaw of character and it's equally ugly no matter who's doing it
 
Rose Immortal, this should be IMMORTALIZED into the All Deaf Posts Hall of Fame! :gpost:
 
Rose,

Since you're may be one of few hearies that post here, I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and believe you. I'm well aware that not all hearies are alike, neither are we deaf/hoh all alike and we all have our individual quirks about us. But, from my standpoint, obtaining access to what I need...note takers, test accomodations, etc, etc, etc, hearies are watching their legal butts so they're not sued or even offend another hearie. At the same time, though, you don't know the first part of what's needed, do you? Everything I do is routine and I know what I need, yet...everything, everything...has to be documented. Everything about me is documented, yet, these hearies want more documentation. Documentation, documentation, documentation and even more until it's more of a hassle than helping me or even being a convenience. I can't ask you if you understand what I mean, because you don't. A new person comes on my case, I have to go through the same routine...these people don't even read their own notes or anyone elses and act as if they need to be trained for the job, while putting on a show that they know what they're doing :roll: I think the client should be paid to put up with incompetent wokers wanting to "help." For the ones that actually do read a client's file, kudos...can we get a story on that so others can see this actually working?

To summarize, Rose, you are not the one I'm mad at. Actually, I'm not mad or bitter at all. It's when I'm walked all over by anyone, particularly hearies, that think they can do it and get away with it, then I will step in and stop it. They don't like it when I do, because they get hostile with me. I experience this a lot and it comes up at least once per week. These people also know I won't cut them any slack and I am quite tough with them. I'm not, nor have I ever, asked for special priviledges. I ask that my work that I do stands on its own accordingly.
 
???????????

But, from my standpoint, obtaining access to what I need...note takers, test accomodations, etc, etc, etc, hearies are watching their legal butts so they're not sued or even offend another hearie. At the same time, though, you don't know the first part of what's needed, do you? Everything I do is routine and I know what I need, yet...everything, everything...has to be documented. Everything about me is documented, yet, these hearies want more documentation. Documentation, documentation, documentation and even more until it's more of a hassle than helping me or even being a convenience. I can't ask you if you understand what I mean, because you don't. A new person comes on my case, I have to go through the same routine...these people don't even read their own notes or anyone elses and act as if they need to be trained for the job, while putting on a show that they know what they're doing I think the client should be paid to put up with incompetent wokers wanting to "help." For the ones that actually do read a client's file, kudos...can we get a story on that so others can see this actually working?



what the fuck are you talking about? a new job? i bet your ass they do the same with every newbie or FNG..fucking new guy.

wake up to the fact of life..you, like me are handicapped. any one thinking others wise is full of shit,and kidding themselves...so yes you bet your ass "they" are gonna make sure you KNOW what your job is.

as for repeating...of course you are going to bump into assholes,deaf,hearing,black,white,yellow tan,short ,tall,rich and poor.did you say.."huh?" or " i am sorry, i missed that" ??
your life is what you make it and atitude has lots to do with it.

after living at gally for 2 years,i must say i am not impressed by by deaf atitude here.people complain about everything. audism..oh please!please show me audism here at gally! please!
some woman complained to me about the fact i was TALKING to a girl during lunch ,"sign please!" i told her to fuck off! this is america freedom of speach , not freedom of easedropping!..and i was talking in spanish !!and i do not know how to pick up a spanish girl with out it!
lunch is MY time. not class time!
i am so sick of meeting deaf people who think the whole world owes them!

your ears dont work! oh boo hoo! mine dont either!your boss triple checks to make sure his ass is covered so you can have a job, shame on him! he should let you do it ,because you said you can do job! it does not matter that if you make a mistake people may die,or money will be lost,or a boat may sink... you said you can do it , damn it!!
get real! to much is on the line, jobs,familys ,lives.

\i personally talked to a manager of the home depot about why no deaf people worked for him...his reply..they had lots of them..but they could not do the job! i got some names from him, too quiz the former workers. i must say,if i was the boss of the home depot ..i would not want them either! people like them give other deaf people a bad rep! and you wonder why hearing people look down on us? yes there are lots of dumb hearing people,so deaf ones stand out! a million fucking retards out there and you do not get a job becouse the boss remembers what happened the last time he had a deaf guy! not the last time a dumb fuck head messed up...the last time a DEAF fuck head messed up.

i have dated lots of girls, and a lot of dumb blonds..pure airheads!but the one that stick out?? the deaf one! thats right! i was shocked that this sexy, beautiful, stunning woman had the I.Q. of a tree and the personality of screwdriver.yes i dated hearing bubble heads.. just to fuck what ever brains they had left ,fuckem right out of their pretty little skull....but i expected more from a deaf person!! shame on me for thinking this girl would be smart,and have an opinion!

deaf olympics! why?WHY?!? why not go for the real thing?running ,jumping,throwwing,skiing,wrestling,judo,budu,akido, and so many many more..DO NOT REQUIRE HEARING!!!!! so what do we do? we cut our selves off! yes deaf olimpics!! fuck everybody else!
i am just so tired of this shit.
we need more doers,and less complainers.
 
Pek--it's very good that you clarified what you meant. Nobody deserves to be walked over because of things they can't control like hearing or not hearing.

I am learning a bit about some of the reasons behind the documentation I THINK you're talking about--though not from the end of the employee. While I do not pretend to know all of the details yet (I'd have to be trained in the particulars whenever I got on the job, if it turns out to be in this area), I did my undergrad work in human resource management and so we go through a course that explains a lot of the legal aspects of employee management. Now that doesn't mean I'm an expert. Yet. That will take many years I'm sure. I am hoping to be someday because one of my main reasons for going into HR is to make sure everybody who is qualified for a job gets a fair crack at it (and that goes for any uncontrollable characteristics that person has).

It's a shame for me to hear that so much of this important equal employment opportunity work is done by bureaucrats who don't care enough to take pride in the quality of their work so that others don't have to retrace their steps. This just increases my resolve to make sure that if I should get put into a position to get things streamlined or otherwise made more user-friendly for job-seekers of all stripes, I'll do my damnedest to make my department absolutely shipshape so that hopefully we solve more problems than we create. Even a small change like making sure that if I'm the one that gets assigned to do all of that documentation, that nobody has to redo it after I'm done, or making sure I get my successor totally up to speed before I move to a new job, is a change I'd find to be worth making.

BTW, part of the reason I'm on this board, besides the interesting people and social chatter (which I'm enjoying), is so that I don't show up into my first HR job being TOTALLY ignorant...or at least being a bit closer to knowing what it is I don't know.
 
Rose,

That was a nice remark you made and I do appreciate it. :) What I should have mentioned a long time ago is that, in the fall of 2002, returning to college at MSUM, the audiologist on campus told me, in so many words, "Pete, you need to learn how to be your own advocate." I had requested a little help on something and she, I think, did. However, after that, this was a nice reply she gave me and I've learned to be my own advocate, but I do get tired of almost having to give people an education regarding me and my dog that's with me. For every bad one, I get about 1,000 good ones, but the stares get to me, which I'm working on. :roll:

VFR, I understand the frustration. Perhaps some deaf people are too sheltered and stick to themselves, which adds to frustration with everyone, including aiming it at hearies.

Travis...hope you're still here...I need to ask you something regarding this since vfr brought it up. Can you, somehow, while learning asl, get some of your new deaf friends where you live, out and about in the community so they're not so sheltered? The more I'm hearing vfr and my wish, years ago to have attended gally, the more I wonder if any deaf people can advocate for themselves. What do you think?
 
Tousi said:
Rose Immortal, this should be IMMORTALIZED into the All Deaf Posts Hall of Fame! :gpost:
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I have to agree that was an excellent posting! Nice...very nice.

Vfr - I agree with your sentiments (er...maybe not the strong words) and sadly it is everywhere in society (i.e.,...the sense of entitlement that every thinks they deserve when they do not).

If one is waiting for one's shortcomings in life to help, one will keep waiting. It is up to the individual to get off their rear and make something of life.

Carpe Diem!!! (Seize the day!)
 
travisdoesmath said:
It seems to me that in the deaf community, there are certain aspects that are off-limits to hearies, for example, it's not kosher for a hearing person to come up with new signs.

Now, I was born hearing, grew up in a hearing family and have no deaf/hoh relatives, I started taking ASL a little over a year ago and I'm starting to make friends in the deaf community. I'm not saying that I feel unwelcome, there have been many people who have received me warmly, however, it is obviously not "my" culture.

I'm not sure about crossover lines, but it seems to me that CODAs and perhaps siblings of Deaf can claim ownership of the culture, or at least moreso than a late-comer like myself.

But here's a scenario ..

Suppose that I become fluent in ASL and immerse myself in Deaf culture, always remaining a peripheral member .. but then I lose my hearing. Am I now allowed to lay claim to Deaf culture where I wasn't before?

if so, why?
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Well umm I never feel be part of their deaf culture, and I am fine with it. I do not know why it bothers u so much about it. I ingore some of them and stay with others who are alike me, too many of them are like me.
 
pek--Thanks again for more clarification. I think that gave it a much-needed context...and I am hoping things are cleared up between us now.

And thanks to others for compliments about that one post.
 
Rose Immortal said:
pek--Thanks again for more clarification. I think that gave it a much-needed context...and I am hoping things are cleared up between us now.

And thanks to others for compliments about that one post.
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You're welcome, Rose! I think you'll do just fine in your job. :thumb:

I'm sorry I haven't been on for a day or two, as my laptop froze up in class yesterday so I couldn't get access to notes in case I was called on by the instructor for my project. I rebooted at least 8 times and stopped short of threatening death to it. Yes, I was called on, the last one that day and winged it. I think I did okay.

As for the presentation that my cohort did on Monday, we got 33 out of 35. I'm happy about that, but, when it was my turn to give my part of the presentation, I had my notes in front of me and was ready. The instructor is also my speech instructor and I wanted to show the class how good I was and how good of an instructor she is so they'd want to take her class. :) Unfortunately, before class, I received a letter in the mail (and read it) from the Department of Justice (my complaint of ADA violations isn't being pursued), which I expected it to be something else and it threw me. Second, I received some emails that kinda threw me off track, so, that's what I had to contend with. I stumbled on the presentation on Monday, apologized once, felt like I was drunk and completely lost my train of thought. I can laugh about it now, but at the time, I had to turn my back, referring to the power point presentation and utter a cuss word, because I was so frustrated.
 
Glad to know everything's patched up. :)

I still have to get a job, after I get out of grad school (May 13 couldn't come sooner!), but if I get in with the company I'm hoping for, I'll eventually be able to move into the area I want from there. They're big on internal hiring and all that stuff. ;)
 
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