Hard Of Hearing But Do Not Use Asl...

[deafdyke]

Things are still pretty rough. Like DeafDucky, I didn't go into special education, I was allowed to be in mainstream classes... But the thing I really wanted to learn was another language, and they wouldn't allow it... It was ridiculous. Schools have a rep to uphold, and if you pose a threat to that, they'll strip you of your basic rights.

In some states they have magnet programs, where dhh kids from a particular area attend a cluster site, at a hearing school. ASL, speech, and the whole shebang of Deaf ed is offered. But yeah, even kids who are on grade level can still benefit from the safety net of a specialized program.

 

[Foxrac]

I understand that many who are faced with this physical limitation are bound to learn sign language. This was not the case for me. I have never used sign language, not once. Just lip reading really... I have been hard of hearing all of my life, and severely too. I have absolutely no hearing in one ear, the other ear is just about done.
I feel somewhat ashamed of this... Once I went to target, an employee who was deaf had spotted my implant. She was overjoyed and began to sign to me. I was dumbfounded, confused and could do nothing but to offer her a sheepish grin. So, I wrote to her, and we had communicated through that. It was overwhelming how guilty I felt.
Has anyone experienced this?

That why I don't bother to go after anyone whoever wear hearing aids or CI because I know not all deaf people use sign language, also most hearing parents with deaf babies usually get CI and learn the oral language, it is routine now.

I grew up with sign language all of my life, started ASL after ENT specialist found me to be deaf when I was 19 months old until 5 years old, switched to SEE from 5 years old to 12 years old then switched back to ASL when I was 12 years old when I transferred from special education at hearing school to deaf school, so I still use ASL after left deaf school to hearing school (I took regular classes with ASL interpreter only).

I'm dumbfounded and confused when someone using oral language to me, even I can't read their lip.

 

[CaseyH15]

That why I don't bother to go after anyone whoever wear hearing aids or CI because I know not all deaf people use sign language, also most hearing parents with deaf babies usually get CI and learn the oral language, it is routine now.

I grew up with sign language all of my life, started ASL after ENT specialist found me to be deaf when I was 19 months old until 5 years old, switched to SEE from 5 years old to 12 years old then switched back to ASL when I was 12 years old when I transferred from special education at hearing school to deaf school, so I still use ASL after left deaf school to hearing school (I took regular classes with ASL interpreter only).

I'm dumbfounded and confused when someone using oral language to me, even I can't read their lip.

People make assumptions that we can sign, read lips, or just we're just not responsive in general. This is why I'm learning to sign, because you never know.

 

[hoichi]

the more sign you acquire and use, youll see how natural and easy it is compared to the sit on your hands and make th, th, th, th, th, sound for ever over again..

also one more thing.
sign isn for those with physical limitations. its a language and like nay language its for any human being who wishes to learn it..deafness doesn't limit us physically. what does that is audism and hearie discrimination. we can do any job the hearie can, its not our Deafness thats the plm. its their bigotry and discrimination that IS the plm. sign solves the issue of communication. it always has. the issue is the hearies worlds rejection of it, (like our language is even theirs to dictate anything too anyway),

with me its always been the opposite. because i have a golden tongue hearies assume i can hear, i usually get when i decide to speak and its rare..."how can you be Deaf, you can speak." (tilts head like confused dog), ive even gotten that from professionals who should of known better if their degree on the wall didnt come form a cracker jack box.assume when i flap my beak like them, like a parrot soem even get a stroked out look on their face........like going Deaf some how wiped out my acquisition of english....just think if we could play that trick on them with sign,

 

[hoichi]

People make assumptions that we can sign, read lips, or just we're just not responsive in general. This is why I'm learning to sign, because you never know.

its great your learning sign...
as for hearies making assumptions meh.

 

[zephren]

Where a live there is quite a mix of deaf people with varying educational experiences: Clare School (oral deaf school), Willie Ross (total communication - speech with signed English), The Learning Center (ASL), ASD (ASL), plus many in mainstream programs with a variety of program formats.

When I meet another deaf person when I am out and about I don't assume the person signs or if they do sign they know ASL. Usually, I very subtlety ask if they sign or if it is a worker I may sign "thank you" to see if the person picks it up. If they do sign they will quickly respond. If not, I'll try another method of communication unless the person just doesn't seem interested in chatting.

 

[hoichi]

why be subtle?

you sign? (sign to individual)is an easy way and polite way to find out/
in my experience anyway

 

[seb]

the more sign you acquire and use, youll see how natural and easy it is compared to the sit on your hands and make th, th, th, th, th, sound for ever over again..


sign isn for those with physical limitations. its a language and like nay language its for any human being who wishes to learn it..deafness doesn't limit us physically. what does that is audism and hearie discrimination. we can do any job the hearie can, its not our Deafness thats the plm. its their bigotry and discrimination that IS the plm. sign solves the issue of communication. it always has. the issue is the hearies worlds rejection of it, (like our language is even theirs to dictate anything too anyway),

We have gone down this road before.

Yes, deafness doesn't limit you physically, but not having a well rounded education and/or the necessary tools or skills to do the job does. It has very little to do with discrimination or bigotry: it's bringing the skills and the education needed to perform the job that does it. Since the deaf population makes up a very small percentage of the general population of any country, it is unreasonable to think that everyone should know ASL and it makes more sense that the deaf community adapt to communicating with the hearing world to make themselves more employable.

Here is a link to one of the many studies on the subject.

http://repository.wcsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1002&context=jadara

 

[hoichi]

We have gone down this road before.

why do wish to go down it again with me? to have this thread lcoked?

Yes, deafness doesn't limit you physically, but not having a well rounded education and/or the necessary tools or skills to do the job does.

who controls Deaf education and schools again?

It has very little to do with discrimination or bigotry: it's bringing the skills and the education needed to perform the job that does it.

your just dismissing a very real plm in society that Deaf face. since you are not Deaf your just a stranger really here to this. and your opinion doesn't count for much.
ive faced it
every Deaf i went to school with has faced it
discrimination is a very real thing in hearie society.
i understand why you wish to ignore it.
but ignoring what occurs doesn't negate what ocurs.

Since the deaf population makes up a very small percentage of the general population of any country, it is unreasonable to think that everyone should know ASL and it makes more sense that the deaf community adapt to communicating with the hearing world to make themselves more employable.

no.
its actually unreasonable to force people who cannot sense your language to learn it. orlaism does just that. ignoring the huge amount of evidence we have that denying Deaf a language is far more harmfull then letting Deaf sign. the march of folly and assimilation goes on, to our detriment.. it doesnt much make sense to force a blind man to learn ASL does it? when we have other more practical ways for the blind to communicate.( with enough coercion anything is possible mind you but different people will be able to learn a language they cannot sense differently.) orlaism isnt based on science its just an ideological construct from from the same minds who gave us other ideological constructs like euthanasia to name one

if your really concerned about our future.
so why not play on our strengths?
we are a visual people.

play on that strength. full fluency in ASL right from the start of language acquisition.
thats our strength.

instead orlast like you insist to deprive us of our strength while playing our weakness in hearie seyes who made the game. . ie the lack of hearing, hearing being at this moment in time anyway the sense hearie uses communicate. in other words its a stacked deck from the start in hearies favor, that adds up to future discrimination from the very start of language acquisition. its not a fair game by any stretch...for most. and oralsit like you know it.

Here is a link to one of the many studies on the subject.

you have one survey nice..


here is a link for you
http://www.gallaudet.edu/news/presidentcordanostatement.html


and heres a book that really looks and goes deep at the oralist project and its vast falures.
https://www.amazon.ca/Understanding-Deaf-Culture-Search-Deafhood/dp/1853595454

i know you will ignore both.

 

[Cappy]

it makes more sense that the deaf community adapt to communicating with the hearing world

Very well said. I have always agreed and abided with that statement.

 

[hoichi]

Very well said. I have always agreed and abided with that statement.

tell me
how does it make sense to force those who cannot perceive a language via sound to learn it? when other more practical languages they can sense and use naturally exist for them?

how do you wish this adoption, you have always abide by take place?
which methods?
at the expense of what exactly?
for whos measure?
its certainly not the childs, so then is benefiting from such nonsense?


yes i know believing in one line sound bites is cool.
now lets get to the bones of shall we

because allot here is at stake ie Deaf future.
my peoples future.

so if your going to come in cool.
just know for some this isnt a game for dilettantes or the faint hearted
how long have you been signing cappy?

 

[AlleyCat]

Very well said. I have always agreed and abided with that statement.

I do too. I'm very Deaf but I understand that it is up to me to fit in with the hearing world, especially when it comes to jobs. I can still have all my Deaf friends and the Deaf club, but the reality is, the hearing aren't going out of their way to accommodate us for the most part (there are exceptions) but when it comes to real life It's up to us to fit. It's the truth, unfortunately.

 

[shel90]

I do too. I'm very Deaf but I understand that it is up to me to fit in with the hearing world, especially when it comes to jobs. I can still have all my Deaf friends and the Deaf club, but the reality is, the hearing aren't going out of their way to accommodate us for the most part (there are exceptions) but when it comes to real life It's up to us to fit. It's the truth, unfortunately.

Yep..so true. As long as I have my Deaf community and ASL, I can tolerate working in a non-ASL environment.

 

[Cappy]

This is a very touchy subject among the deaf community. But since you kindly asked me, I started sign in the 2nd or 3rd grade. I was also mainstreamed from Jr High thru HS. I did just fine. One thing that mystified me, some of my grade school deaffies went to an all deaf school. I could see the differences between them and me. I felt that I got the better education as to be more perpared for the hearing world.

 

[Cappy]

Like the others said, we need to be self sufficient. It is up to us to make it work.

 

[hoichi]

no one denies its up to us.

its always up to the individual but, choices are very much socially conditioned, hence when it comes to babies and first language acquisition the deck is rather stacked in the hearies kids favour who has attained fluency then the Deafie who has been denied both in ASL and in english.

where would our community even be if we all just gave ourselvs up to the orlaist agenda..we have a community in spite of their efforts not because of them.

where would sign be?

when it comes to oralist polices in sign at the expense of the child in order to chase some dream of a golden tongue, then it matters.

as of course i know you shel90 are well aware..

 

[hoichi]

This is a very touchy subject among the deaf community. But since you kindly asked me, I started sign in the 2nd or 3rd grade. I was also mainstreamed from Jr High thru HS. I did just fine. One thing that mystified me, some of my grade school deaffies went to an all deaf school. I could see the differences between them and me. I felt that I got the better education as to be more perpared for the hearing world.

you did get the better education. that isnt the Deafs fault. how old are you? Deaf schools have been for generations controlled by orlaists..in one way or another, until their hold had to be broken. and it didnt come easy.

so yeah even the strong ones, the education itself is not controlled by the Deaf

when i was in Deaf school, Deaf teachers had token roles, all positions of power save one where in the hands of hearies who were not enthused re sign..hearie teachers out numbered Deaf, Deaf worked in the cafeteria and the, janitorial so on, the power in the hand of hearies. plain and simple. they couldn't stop us signing then, they recently just were forced to stop the hand tying...memories run deep. but they also didnt really support it.

it was against hearies in positions o power that sign was able to again be used without hindrance int he school. that is against what hearies wanted..
io didn't come easy or cheap and had ot fight for it.

its utter bullshit Deaf have and had to fight to be able to use their own language...

which hearie would accept that?

to use the education system in favor of orlaism ignores the facts.

the situation in Deaf education is oirlaisms doing..its a magic trick worthy of houdini to have it used in favor of their failed polices.

its a touchy subject.
it doesn't have to be if forced assimilation at all costs including the child swell being wasnt the prime principle of oralism..

i went to a hearie school i went to a Deaf school im well aware what the stacked deck was and in whos favor.

in the world of the blind the man who sees is king..

but it doesnt have to be that way.

 

[hoichi]

Like the others said, we need to be self sufficient. It is up to us to make it work.

no one has stated otherwise.
the sky also is blue
and water is wet
chilli peepers are hot

 

[Cappy]

Hey man, we can have our own language. Work before play. I suppose I had different motivations than you. My motivation was to do better that the hearries in class because I was sick and tired of being bullied, and feeling less than human to them. Yeah, that was my motivation. By the way, I am 55 and a proud deaf man.
PS: I relate more with deaffies than hearries.

 

[seb]

why do wish to go down it again with me? to have this thread lcoked?


who controls Deaf education and schools again?




your just dismissing a very real plm in society that Deaf face. since you are not Deaf your just a stranger really here to this. and your opinion doesn't count for much.
ive faced it
every Deaf i went to school with has faced it
discrimination is a very real thing in hearie society.
i understand why you wish to ignore it.
but ignoring what occurs doesn't negate what ocurs.

- Look at your own communication skills. You don't capitalize or punctuate anything and you spelling is not too good. Employers don't want to have to teach you how to communicate for hold your hand, they want you to bring to the table what you need to do the job. If you've had problems getting or holding on to a job as well as "every Deaf i went to school with," then you probably have to look no further that the school you attended.


no.
its actually unreasonable to force people who cannot sense your language to learn it. orlaism does just that. ignoring the huge amount of evidence we have that denying Deaf a language is far more harmfull then letting Deaf sign. the march of folly and assimilation goes on, to our detriment.. it doesnt much make sense to force a blind man to learn ASL does it? when we have other more practical ways for the blind to communicate.( with enough coercion anything is possible mind you but different people will be able to learn a language they cannot sense differently.) orlaism isnt based on science its just an ideological construct from from the same minds who gave us other ideological constructs like euthanasia to name one


-The problem here is you live in a largely hearing world and it's you as part of the less than 1% who are deaf must adapt to the hearing world if you want to succeed. I've never said you should not have a language, what I've said is you have to adapt to the hearing world and bring the skills to the table needed to succeed in it. The blind don't have the communication problems that the deaf do and they are taught to use braille as well as the written word in proper English. so they bring to the table skills that depending on the deaf school and their curriculum some deaf people are lacking.


if your really concerned about our future.
so why not play on our strengths?
we are a visual people.

-Absolutely! Unfortunately there are only so many of those jobs around.

play on that strength. full fluency in ASL right from the start of language acquisition.
thats our strength.

-Some yes, some no. Just as it is in the hearing world.

instead orlast like you insist to deprive us of our strength while playing our weakness. ie the lack of hearing which is how hearies communicate. in other words its a stacked deck from the start in hearies favor, that adds up to future discrimination from the very start of language acquisition. its not a fair game by any stretch...for most. and oralsit like you know it.

-I've never done that, you have done it to yourself. Welcome to the real world, it is run by "hearies" and you have to acquire the skills needed to succeed in the hearing world.




you have one survey nice..


here is a link for you
http://www.gallaudet.edu/news/presidentcordanostatement.html


and heres a book that really looks and goes deep at the oralist project and its vast falures.
https://www.amazon.ca/Understanding-Deaf-Culture-Search-Deafhood/dp/1853595454

i know you will ignore both.

Looked at both, but the last time I looked Gallaudet is a deaf school and since Cordano is the president of the university, she may be a little biased, and has provided no studies to back up her statements other than stating them as fact. Also there graduates also have a very high employment rate in the deaf community.

Paddy Ladd might also be a tad bit biased since he is deaf and a deaf scholar and is deaf activist and deaf researcher, so his opinion and opinions might not be the most even handed.

What I linked was an unbiased study/survey regarding why the deaf community has a higher unemployment rate that the hearing world.

As I have said in the past, I know people who are deaf and hold well paying jobs and the biggest reason for it is probably their education as well as being able to adapt and basically blend into the hearing world. Also as I have said before: education will set you free. I also know people who are owners or in upper management of companies and what they are looking for is the best candidate for the job: if you're deaf and can do the job they could care less.