Golden Window

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Did specifically use the term oralism? Everything that does not involve signing is not some threat. The mother of the inventer of the CI was Deaf.
 
C-NICE said:
Their CIs are working and are not failures. "Assimilated" This is not the Borg Collective: Aren't you being a bit dramatic?
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None of the above relate in anyway to what I asked...
 
black children now bleached white You are comparing children being given a CI with changing someone's skin color? That's bordering on fanaticism.
 
Oralsim was not included in the article. How did oralism get into all of this?
 
So we can agree that there are children that exist that do have oral success with a CI?

We can agree that the optimal period of time for learning language is when you are very young? That is a scientific fact, irrefutable, whether that language is oral oral or not.

Bimodal is clearly the best approach. So why aren't you fighting for that? It's FAR more productive.

Why the don't implant ANY babies narrative? Why not give a child EVERY tool you can? Because there's kids that DON'T have success?? So because some don't do well, none of them should have it? What's the sense in that? Not every kid is going to be Beckman, so no kids should play soccer? Not every kid is going to be Slash so no kids should have guitar lessons? You have very strange way of fighting battles.
 
The moment someone posts anything about a CI. Must oralism always come up?
 
C-NICE said:
Did specifically use the term oralism? Everything that does not involve signing is not some threat. The mother of the inventer of the CI was Deaf.
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the mother and wife of agbell was deaf
this is one thing he had to say about us
founder of agbell said:
D
those who believe as i do in the production of a defective race of human beings would be a great calamity to the world will examine carefully the causes that lead to the intermarriage of the deaf with the object of applying a remedy"
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the fourth phase of oralism is CI

everything is not a threat never have i stated such, pls engage my actual words, thank you

"
 
C-NICE said:
black children now bleached white You are comparing children being given a CI with changing someone's skin color? That's bordering on fanaticism.
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no
i was comparing the use of medical approaches to addressing social issues and problems
 
C-NICE said:
Oralsim was not included in the article. How did oralism get into all of this?
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you posted a video that had 9 children moving their beaks like hearies...
that is termed oralism..

did you even watch the video you posted?
 
AG Bell is pushing up daisies. What does he have to with CIs being used today? CIs and genetic engineering (Which by the way is years into future if ever), are two different things.
 
children moving their beaks like hearies... Have you ever considered that the term hearies is a derogatory way to refer to hearing people? "Beaks" A little extreme.
 
ambrosia said:
So we can agree that there are children that exist that do have oral success with a CI?

We can agree that the optimal period of time for learning language is when you are very young? That is a scientific fact, irrefutable, whether that language is oral oral or not.

Bimodal is clearly the best approach. So why aren't you fighting for that? It's FAR more productive.

Why the don't implant ANY babies narrative? Why not give a child EVERY tool you can? Because there's kids that DON'T have success?? So because some don't do well, none of them should have it? What's the sense in that? Not every kid is going to be Beckman, so no kids should play soccer? Not every kid is going to be Slash so no kids should have guitar lessons? You have very strange way of fighting battles.
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hi ambrosia nice to see you, im not sure if you're asking me the question but ill reply anyway.
ive never stated no children have success with CI, never. indeed we do agree on the early stages of language acquisition, the part you're forgetting though is for deaf babies and children the best and most efficient language for them right form birth is a sign language. that is a FACT.

ive always stated a bilingual approach, always.

also the success rates are not as claimed, they parade the stars and dump those who not made the cut to Deaf schools, already drilled into and violated and denied sign their entire lives, to pick up the pieces.

why we do NOt accept nor support the pre lingual implantation of babies is because the very reason d'etre of it is oralism. and with that the established structure denying sign language acquisition from the very entities and stake holders involved in the CI assimilation machine, and of the practice of "keeping deaf kids away from other Deaf so that they don't revert back to being Deaf"

this denies the child's birthright to his natural langauge, and his culture. and thus WE as a culture, have been by the majority opposed to prelingual implantation and the misleading, propaganda engine that pushes its ideology.

the issues are social, the solution is a social one, not a medical one.

as an example for close to a century homosexuality was a medical condition, a psychiatric disorder, listed in the DEM, with treatments and schools of treatments.
that was a medical approach to a social plm
the plm wasn't the individuals sexual orientation, that is natural, the plm was social societies deep rooted homophobia, societies prejudice, societies discrimination, societies brutality , prison, institutionalisation all approaching it as an ill, a medical condition a criminal deviancy..
the above same apparatus and structures used to "cure" homosexuality was also used on deaf, even the architecture of early Deaf schools was that of the penitentiary build byt he same people..

what has changed?
homosexuality is no longer listed as a medical condition int he DEM. and most doctors or professionals wont be treating it as one.

society still ahs the discrimination, the prejudice, the bigotry but we are handling it as we should socially via society and not with pills or medical instruments ot make the homosexual straight.

that is what WE are opposed to

we rather see ourselves as natural, just like gays see themselves as natural.
we are proud of still being here against the odds, we are proud what we have created our culture against the odds

and every time a deaf baby is assimilated and keep away from Deaf is another lost Deaf, another future leader goen, another pair hands no longer signing, another set of eyes not knowing our stories, our poems, our jokes, our history, another child not becoming fluent,
and we have felt what this has done to the culture over the last 2 decades..

and it's been rather stark..

always a pleasure to chat ambrosia....'-)
 
C-NICE said:
AG Bell is pushing up daisies. What does he have to with CIs being used today? CIs and genetic engineering (Which by the way is years into future if ever), are two different things.
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yes they are.
let me ask you a quick question
why is agbell called agbell?
 
C-NICE said:
children moving their beaks like hearies... Have you ever considered that the term hearies is a derogatory way to refer to hearing people? "Beaks" A little extreme.
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its how we term them in our culture...

polly want a cracker?
 
Yes Hoichi I was talking to you. You knew I was talking to you ;)

See, you can figure it out without a quote :P

I know you've never stated that there aren't any successes, that's why I didn't say you did. I'm just saying you have to acknowledge that they exist. For every kid that is implanted there is a possibility that they'll be one of them. The is 0 chance of oral success without them. Is it necessary to be oral to have a successful independent fulfilling life? No, of course not, but it does expand the possibilities.

Of course there are deaf children that are being denied sign. That is tragic, it's wrong. But the way you come across on line is extremely negative. You very much so sound like you think deaf children should be denied a CI. Personally I think it's a much more worthy cause, and has a higher possibility of working, if we find ways of letting parents know the importance that child needs sign. That a CI doesn't make them hearing.

It would also be helpful if you kept in mind, that they might be deaf, but the only people they "belong" to is their parents. There are many ways you shoot yourself in the foot with your tactics.
 
ambrosia said:
Yes Hoichi I was talking to you. You knew I was talking to you ;)
See, you can figure it out without a quote :P
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indeed.

ambrosia said:
I know you've never stated that there aren't any successes, that's why I didn't say you did. I'm just saying you have to acknowledge that they exist. For every kid that is implanted there is a possibility that they'll be one of them. The is 0 chance of oral success without them. Is it necessary to be oral to have a successful independent fulfilling life? No, of course not, but it does expand the possibilities.
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thats just stating typical assimilation colonialism. for instance in order for the native to get "a better life" they had to give up their language and cultural ways...
which is utter bs.
and of course we all knwo what happened,
the above ignores the fundamentals, the lack of a better life isnt the result of the natives "nativeness", its a result of the actual oppression and discrimination of colonialism.
the possibilities prayed that ci can give only demonstrate the actual discrimination and prejudice of audism so deeply ingrained in the bone.


ambrosia said:
Of course there are deaf children that are being denied sign. That is tragic, it's wrong. But the way you come across on line is extremely negative. You very much so sound like you think deaf children should be denied a CI. Personally I think it's a much more worthy cause, and has a higher possibility of working, if we find ways of letting parents know the importance that child needs sign. That a CI doesn't make them hearing.
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i am opposed to Deaf babies pre lingual getting CI.
i am opposed to Deaf children getting CI

adults are adults, as such the approach is different, its the behaviour of the combined system of Ci and entities that need ot be challenged, and one day that occurs with industries is through boycotting the product until that particular ur company knwos how to behave..other fronts are needed and are engaged, , its a serious struggle
we knwo whats happening and whats at stake

for the stated reason i constantly state.

im not opposed to CI as a technology per se if it existed in a vacuum

ambrosia said:
It would also be helpful if you kept in mind, that they might be deaf, but the only people they "belong" to is their parents. There are many ways you shoot yourself in the foot with your tactics.
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they dotn belong to their parents either in the sense of property but that's not anything ive claimed

when you are born, its not only your parents that lay claim, the state does, society does, religion do, cultures do, so on so forth..
one way to understand our reaction to assimilation is of course like i stated, how would some gay feel if gay teens were being assimilated or gay children and kept away from other gays....
how would black steel, natives, any minority thing about it, because that gut reaction to that is exactly the gut reaction that one gets when you see the cat aways of oralism who never made the cut and an dhow they learn their birth right language after being denied ...
belonging is deep

im new to the debate, ive know the arguments form all sides and all angle i've seen them all really
i use the ones si use for a reason
 
You're missing my point hoichi. I'm pointing out the things you do that are going to make you not heard. Your tactics are exactly why you would be ignored. When you're ignored you gain nothing.

You're also missing the point of the golden window, which is the subject of the thread. The only adult, or even older child, that would have ANY degree of success with a CI, for speech, is one that lost their hearing post lingual. It's basically do it now or don't bother doing it all. Ever. It actually takes the choice away from the individual. On the other if they decide they don't want to hear they can just not wear it.

You can't keep claiming to be pro bimodal while also saying you're against implanting prelingually deaf babies. You can't keep claiming you don't care if adults make their own decisions when attack them for it when do.
 
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