Germany Demands Release of Teen from Turkish Prison

I am familiar with the law of Turkey and America which different as EU law.

Yes I do read that "fondling" in the article and call it as "amuse" in my previous post. "fondling" is not physical voilience... but touch gently in a loving or caress way because it belongs two people who want each other with no physical force, etc.
Whether or not physical "force" or "violence" is used is not relevant to the charge of fondling a minor. It is still illegal to sexually stimulate a minor, even if both parties are consenting.

Yes Marco & his family know Turkey's law since they went there 9 times but the problem is a girl lied him about her age.
Are you saying that if the girl was actually 15 years old, it would have been a legal act? The age 15 is still a minor (unless Turkey has a different age division). Did the article say that or does Turkish law say that?
 
Yes, it's really sad... All what we hope for him to get out of prison.

This situation remind me of 11 years old Swiss-American boy.

American human rights under European watchdog


Yes that's right, Turkey are being reject to join EU until they have to obey EU rules and stick it...

I got it (American human rights under...), thanks!

Pah, now I do unterstand. My Co-Worker and me did discussion about that what happend with Marco so british Girl is still teenager. Dont care, because Marco need to get know about Law on the World. they are in Turkey as vacation. Turkey Lawyer are not accept for Marco, what just a least time happened! I am sorry for Marco. He need to listen about different law in each country
 
Teen Sex Case Puts Turkey's Judicial System in Spotlight

Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Marco thought the British girl was 15

Teenagers are rarely prosecuted for having sex, but a 13-year-old British girl has managed to put a 17-year old-German boy behind bars in Turkey. The case has become a thorn in German-Turkish relations.

Turkey's Antalya coast is enormously popular among German and British tourists for its pristine beaches, sporting activities and nightlife. A 17-year-old high school student from the small northern German town of Ülzen, identified as Marco W. in German media reports, had spent the Easter break with his parents at a five-star hotel resort in Side.

But on April 12, Marco's holiday turned into a nightmare.

Turkish police officers arrested him for having sex with a 13-year-old Briton, known in German media as Charlotte M. The mother of the Manchester girl had accused Marco of sexually abusing her daughter after he had been invited up to the girl's hotel room.

Marco claims Charlotte told him she was fifteen and what has emerged in the German media is a portrait of a manipulative 13-year-old deceiving a youth four years her senior.

Turkey has also been lambasted by the tabloids, commentators and politicians for its treatment of a juvenile. Much has been made of Marco's psychological state and the decrepit conditions of the detention cell, which he has been sharing with 30 other inmates for the past four months.

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Steinmeier (left) talked to Turkey's Gül about Marco

German politicians have intervened on Marco's behalf at the highest levels. Chancellor Angela Merkel made public assurances that she would help Marco and Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier spoke privately to his Turkish counterpart, Abdullah Gül, who is likely to be elected Turkey's next president at the end of this month. Gül said that he could not interfere with Turkey's independent judiciary.

Different stories

Marco claims the two only kissed and engaged in "heavy petting," consensually. No sexual intercourse took place, he has said.

On Aug. 8, a gynecologist who had examined Charlotte said that there was no evidence of assault and the girl was still a virgin. But there was sexual penetration, insisted Charlotte's lawyer Ömer Aycan, who told his client's side of the story in a telephone interview with DW-WORLD.DE from Antalya.

Charlotte has claimed that she was asleep in the double room when Marco and another boy knocked on the door after midnight. She asked Marco to leave, but he refused and proceeded to force himself on her. Charlotte screamed, alerting other teenagers in the room, and Marco fled.

"Charlotte refused to have sex with Marco, so I can use the word rape. He raped a 13-year-old girl," said Aycan, who added that Charlotte's age was known to the German youth.

Sexual contact without the use of force is criminal under Turkish law when one of the individuals involved is under 15. Aycan is seeking the maximum conviction, a sentence of fifteen years, although that penalty would be reduced by a third since Marco is also a minor.

Statutory rape laws

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Marco is awaiting trial in an Antalya prison

The case has thrust Turkey's judicial system in the spotlight and reinforced the German perception that the predominantly Muslim country is backward in its sexual attitudes, and therefore does not belong in the European Union.

But legal experts say that Turkey has made tremendous strides in bringing its laws in line with EU norms, and the case would have been handled no differently in Germany, England or the US.

"The mother of the girl charged a young man with child abuse. The prosecutors had no choice but to arrest Marco," said Christian Rumpf, an attorney in Stuttgart who is an expert on Turkish law.

In Turkey as in Germany, any foreigner charged with a crime must remain in detention until cleared of the charges, said Rumpf, who does not believe that Marco will be easily acquitted.

The law governing sex with underage minors, or "statutory rape," is taken seriously in Turkey and other countries. The legal "age of consent" for sex can range from 14 to 18 years, depending on country or even different regions of the same country. The law is meant to protect children and adolescents from being coerced by an older individual into having sex, but also applies to sexual activity between teens of similar ages.

"Where do you draw the line between the normal sexuality of teenagers and protecting a child from sexual abuse?" asked Rumpf.

Germany would have prosecuted too

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Kissing is not a felony at any age, but sex is

In Germany, that line is drawn at age 14.

"Kissing is not a felony in Germany at any age, if that is all they did. But sexual contact is illegal in Germany when one of them is under 14," said Heribert Ostendorf, a former federal prosecutor who heads the program for juvenile law and crime prevention at the University of Kiel.

"Most people just don't know the specifics of child-abuse laws in Germany and that Marco would have also been prosecuted in his own country," he said, adding that the burden is on Marco to prove that he did not know that Charlotte was only 13.

"Ignorance of the law is no protection from being punished by it," he said.

"There are only victims in this case"

The case has resulted in a media circus and Charlotte's family has been hounded by German reporters in Manchester. The girl did not show up for the last hearing because of the publicity glare, according to Aycan.

"There are only victims in this case -- Marco, Charlotte, and even the Turkish justice system, which is facing intense scrutiny from Germany, Britain and the EU. The Turkish judges are under tremendous pressure and cannot afford to make mistakes," said Lale Akgün, a Turkish-born Social Democratic parliamentarian in the German Bundestag who served for many years as a family and youth counselor for the city of Cologne.

Akgün also believes the case has been damaging for German-Turkish relations. News commentators in Turkey were outraged that German politicians tried to influence a matter that belongs in the courts.

"The intervention of Steinmeier has put even more pressure on the Turkish judiciary to prove that it is capable of making independent decisions without being swayed by politics," she said.

Parallels in the US

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Turkey's Antalya coast is popular among German tourists

In the United States, former President Jimmy Carter and Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama unsuccessfully lobbied Georgia's high court to overturn the conviction of Genarlow Wilson, who is serving a ten-year jail sentence for having oral sex with his girlfriend.

The girl never filed charges, but the act was caught on videotape at a New Year's Eve party in 2003, and wound up in the hands of Georgia state prosecutors. In Georgia, the age of consent is 16 years of age. Wilson was 17 at the time, but his girlfriend was only 15. He was charged and convicted of child molestation.

The Wilson case has gotten wide publicity in the United States, and many Americans are now questioning whether the statutory rape laws that are meant to protect minors go too far.

In June, an appeal courts judge called Wilson's prison term "a grave miscarriage of justice," but the former star athlete still remains behind bars.

Meanwhile Marco's next trial date in Antalya is on September 6. The judicial process in this instanced is not unusually long, considering the backlog of cases in Turkish courts and the time required to depose witnesses in three different countries, according to Christian Rumpf.

"We need to let the Turkish courts do their job and do it right," said Lale Akgün. "This takes time."

Teen Sex Case Puts Turkey's Judicial System in Spotlight | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 25.08.2007
 
Hi Liebling :hug:

Oh, I got it.. I will inform you about the law in Turkish and Germany. jsut very interesting! The turkey court did explain to Marco, which is better go to Jail in Turkey or Germany. If Marco do decided to go to Jail in Germany. That will be for Marco there about 10 yrs or in Turkey about 6 yrs. Marco did decided for 6 yrs in Turkey, but their parents wanna help Marco out off Jail, how can possible, right now!?
Now I don´t know what do they want to deal with Marco in the court? :dunno:
 
Hi Liebling :hug:

Oh, I got it.. I will inform you about the law in Turkish and Germany. jsut very interesting! The turkey court did explain to Marco, which is better go to Jail in Turkey or Germany. If Marco do decided to go to Jail in Germany. That will be for Marco there about 10 yrs or in Turkey about 6 yrs. Marco did decided for 6 yrs in Turkey, but their parents wanna help Marco out off Jail, how can possible, right now!?
Now I don´t know what do they want to deal with Marco in the court? :dunno:

Marco would rather to serve in Turkey for 6 years than 10 years in Germany!

Anyway Marco is found guilty under both two countries' laws.
 
Hi Liebling :hug:

Oh, I got it.. I will inform you about the law in Turkish and Germany. jsut very interesting! The turkey court did explain to Marco, which is better go to Jail in Turkey or Germany. If Marco do decided to go to Jail in Germany. That will be for Marco there about 10 yrs or in Turkey about 6 yrs. Marco did decided for 6 yrs in Turkey, but their parents wanna help Marco out off Jail, how can possible, right now!?
Now I don´t know what do they want to deal with Marco in the court? :dunno:

I didn't see your post until today as I want to add the update here.

Only if Marco has sexual intercourse with minor, yes but Marco did not have sexual intercouse with her but just touch and kiss each other. They examined that a girl is a virgin with no volience, force, rape, etc.

I saw TV news few weeks ago saying that a girl claimed that Marco raped her. Huh? If she claimed what Marco did is true then go to Turkey to make her statement against him then but she don't want... Why?
 
German Youth to Remain in Turkish Prison as Trial Postponed

The trial of Marco W., accused of sexually abusing a 13-year-old British girl while on vacation in Turkey, has been postponed until late September. The 17-year-old German boy will remain in Turkish custody.

A court in Antalya rejected on Thursday the pleas of Marco W. and his team of lawyers for a release. The German youth has been held in a Turkish prison since his arrest in April.

The trial, which officially resumed on Thursday, has been postponed once again and will resume on Sept. 28, one of the lawyers Michael Nagel said from Antalya, German news agency DPA reported.

Nagel said he considers the decision "illegal."

Marco W. has repudiated charges that he sexually abused a 13-year-old British girl while vacationing in the Turkish resort town of Side. A medical examination revealed that the girl, who'd allegedly said she was 15, was not raped, nor did the pair have sexual intercourse.

The case set off a mini-diplomatic crisis between Turkey and Germany with Turkish officials outraged at the German media's portrayal of the conditions at Marco W.'s prison and also at German politicians for pressuring the Turkish government for the boy's release.

German Youth to Remain in Turkish Prison as Trial Postponed | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 06.09.2007
 
Delays in German Teen's Trial Irk Brussels, Berlin

The case of Marco W., a 17-year-old German held for seven months in a Turkish prison on charges on sexual misconduct with a minor, is increasingly straining relations between Turkey and the European Union.

Marco W.'s case -- and particularly the repeated delays in resolving it -- have caught the attention of the EU.

"Whether or not Marco is guilty, detaining a minor for seven months violates the EU's principles of rule of law," Silvana Koch-Mehrin, deputy head of the Liberals in the European Parliament.

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Marco W. has been held in this Turkish prison for seven months

On Tuesday, a court in Antalya postponed the trial once again, as a translation of the 13-year-old alleged victim's testimony was not yet available. The girl, known as Charlotte M., lives in England and refused to travel to Turkey to testify in person.

Case may impact Turkey's accession bid

President of the European Parliament Hans-Gert Pöttering reportedly telephoned with EU Expansion Commissioner Olli Rehn about the case on Thursday after the trial had been suspended.

The regional publication Osnabrücker Zeitung reported on Thursday that "the presidents of all the parliamentary committees of the "European Parliament had requested that Pöttering take up the matter with Rehn.

Turkey began accession negotiations with Brussels in 2005, though human rights issues have repeatedly cast a shadow over possible membership for the country.

Berlin may back appeal

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Even without Marco W., Turkey has come under fire for its human rights practices

Marco W.'s legal team said following Wednesday's court ruling that it would file a complaint over the delays to the European Court of Human rights.

"We are considering the possibility of supporting such an appeal," a German foreign ministry spokeswoman told AFP, adding that the ministry would have to examine the details of the complaint before reaching a final decision.

Chancellor Angela Merkel has called for Turkey to release Marco W. to Germany to stand trial there. Germany, however, had turned down criticism earlier this year after Turkey claimed influencing impartial judges was a violation of democratic

The 17-year-old has been accused of sexual misconduct with a 13-year-old British girl in April in the Turkish resort town of Side. He has denied that they had sex.

Delays in German Teen's Trial Irk Brussels, Berlin | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 22.11.2007
 
If she's not willing to testify then the charges dont hold water - I think this was just plain 17 year old stupidity on his part and 13 year old stupidity on the British girls part.

the mother of the two girls should be charged with neglect of a minor by inadequate supervision. Do you think Im going to let my 13 year old daughter run around a resort unsupervised for a week and have her own room? It'd be a cold day in hell before I do.

I think the mother is just looking for a reason to make her two girls look innocent and taken advantage of. Their story simply doesnt hold water.
 
If she's not willing to testify then the charges dont hold water - I think this was just plain 17 year old stupidity on his part and 13 year old stupidity on the British girls part.

It look bad on girl´s side for refuse to testify.

The problem is girl lied him about her age but good thing is girl is still virgin. It shows that they don´t have sexual intercourse but just heavy touch and kiss.

Girl´s mother did saw them cuddle and kiss at the balcony of their hotel. It doesn´t bother girl´s mother and also boy´s parents as well. I cannot understand why girl´s mother didn´t say something when she know about her daughter´s age and stop them kissing and cuddle when she saw them at balcony.


the mother of the two girls should be charged with neglect of a minor by inadequate supervision. Do you think Im going to let my 13 year old daughter run around a resort unsupervised for a week and have her own room? It'd be a cold day in hell before I do.

Exactly...

I cannot understand those whole because many people said the same thing about girl´s mother and ask to themselves thousand of times why she allow her 2 daughters alone in strange town and then play "caring mother" and acussed a boy for sex abuse on her daughter. It make no sense to me.


I think the mother is just looking for a reason to make her two girls look innocent and taken advantage of. Their story simply doesnt hold water.

Yes, you are not only one who think the same thing. A lot of people said the same thing about girl´s mother, too.
 
If the mother saw it happen and was the supervising adult then she too could be charged as well here in the states for the endangering a minor or accomplice to statutory rape or even an accomplice to rape and or sexual assault of a minor. The charges would surely carry a very stiff penalty as they should. If that had happened here in the states, the trial would be held here in the country but the boy would not be allowed to re-enter the country ever again since he could be seen as a sexual predator given his age. I am not sure if non-citizens would serve their time here in the states, overseas, or even if they would serve their time with the general population of a federal prison given the language and cultural differences. But I am sure the courts would make every effort to make sure the detainee understood the charges against them and their rights of the legal process.
 
If the mother saw it happen and was the supervising adult then she too could be charged as well here in the states for the endangering a minor or accomplice to statutory rape or even an accomplice to rape and or sexual assault of a minor. The charges would surely carry a very stiff penalty as they should. If that had happened here in the states, the trial would be held here in the country but the boy would not be allowed to re-enter the country ever again since he could be seen as a sexual predator given his age. I am not sure if non-citizens would serve their time here in the states, overseas, or even if they would serve their time with the general population of a federal prison given the language and cultural differences. But I am sure the courts would make every effort to make sure the detainee understood the charges against them and their rights of the legal process.

Yes, it´s same here in Germany as well. I really don´t understand Turkish law for ignore mother´s supervising neglectigoe.

About statutory rape here in Germany - court decision. Judge look for fair... there´re different story if minor is being force to have sex. Marco would not get charge here in Germany because there´re no sexual intercourse but just petting and fondling and plus is a girl lied him about her age. The mother would get a charge as supersiving negloliction.

Yes I know about US statutory rape law and disagree with it. I will make sure my boys aware before they visit America, Turkey or any islaim countries.
 
Updated:

German Teen Suspected of Abuse Released from Turkish Prison

A young German man accused of sexually abusing a British girl while on vacation in Turkey has been released from prison, according to Turkish television. While the teen can return home, the trial will continue.

Despite his release after eight months in prison, 17-year-old Marco W. will still face charges of sexually abusing a 13-year-old British girl during their Easter vacation in the Turkish resort of Antalya. The court ruled that Marco could return to Germany, setting no bail conditions. The trial is set to continue on April 1.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel welcomed the decision to release the teen.

"I'm glad that Marco is free for now and can return home," Merkel said.

Hours before the court ruled to release Marco, his lawyers said they had made formal application to the European Court of Justice in Strasbourg for him to be freed.

Wrongful release?

A lawyer for the girl said on Friday, Dec. 14, that he would appeal the decision to release Marco, saying that evidence presented to court showed that he should stay in prison. The lawyer is calling for the German teen to be sentenced for raping the girl.

Turkish prosecutors had said they would demand the maximum sentence of 15 years for rape, reduced to 10 in the case of a minor.

Marco has denied abusing the girl. He claims that she consented to mutual caressing and told him that she was 15 years old.

International row

German officials have criticized the delays in bringing Marco to trial, with Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier discussing the issue with senior Turkish officials in Brussels in June.

The full version of the alleged victim's testimony was presented translated into Turkish to the court only last month.

Turkish officials have expressed anger at what they have seen as an attempt to influence the judicial process.

German Teen Suspected of Abuse Released from Turkish Prison | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 14.12.2007


I saw him on World Journal TV few days ago. He look awful with dark eyes and too thin. He said how much happy he is return to his parents and want being spoil by his mother and want to have a long sleep... He thanked everyone for their support on him. I can tell from his impression that he is an innoncent.
 
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