Germany bans Cruise film shoot from military sites

Excellent post, Banjo. I couldn't say it better. It is true German law also forbids the commericialization of Nazi symbols. I concur the German government's decision is ridiculous.
 
Furthermore, I think freedom of speech in Germany is blunted so if they remove the current attitude/restrictions on free speech, they would have to allow the Nazis (however few in numbers they may be) in.
 
At first I thought it’s not fair of German government to ban Tom over his belief and found out that’s not what I thought.

Scientology is not banned in Germany but not recognized as a church here in Germany.

I think that the German Government has the right to reject him from use their property for filming. I also has the right to reject somebody for use my property, too. Its about respect.

I’m total surprise to see your comments here over “freedom of speech”. Okay if I started a cult… which allow abusing the people then I would not get punishment because of freedom of speech? Right?

Yes we have the right to practice any religion if we like to since we have both freedom of speech and religion. Scientology is not a religion but a cult. It´s not just Germany who consider Scientology as a dangerous cult but Europe countries as well.

If you feel that German government discriminate Tom due his belief for reject him from filming in the army casernes (Government´s property) then you should also against German government for discriminate Nazi etc, too. Is it wrong to discriminate Nazis?

If they really hates Tom as what you claim then they would not buy his movies, don’t they? German government did not ban all of Tom’s films don’t they? Tom is welcome to visit Germany for holiday if he likes to and can talk positive and negative whatever he likes. He is not ban from Germany but ban from use government´s property.

You will learn to understand why the Germans are right to be suspicious of this Scientology organization. They found out that Scientology is really a commercial organization, not a religion.

They have their rights to their own views if they do not want someone to play in this role because they view Scientology as a dangerous cult.

Germany Info: Information Services: Archives: Background Papers

20 Apr 73 - SNOW WHITE PROGRAM

I can understand that American and Europe’s cultural traditions are very different. We also have different freedom of speech, that’s way what we like and what we believe in. I can see that we have more freedom of speech and religion restriction than in America which we support and believe is good and safe for the children’s welfare and interest etc., it should not abuse the people, also violence etc due their "belief".
 
Liebling:-))) said:
At first I thought it’s not fair of German government to ban Tom over his belief and found out that’s not what I thought.

Scientology is not banned in Germany but not recognized as a church here in Germany.

I think that the German Government has the right to reject him from use their property for filming. I also has the right to reject somebody for use my property, too. Its about respect.

I’m total surprise to see your comments here over “freedom of speech”. Okay if I started a cult… which allow abusing the people then I would not get punishment because of freedom of speech? Right?

Yes we have the right to practice any religion if we like to since we have both freedom of speech and religion. Scientology is not a religion but a cult. It´s not just Germany who consider Scientology as a dangerous cult but Europe countries as well.

If you feel that German government discriminate Tom due his belief for reject him from filming in the army casernes (Government´s property) then you should also against German government for discriminate Nazi etc, too. Is it wrong to discriminate Nazis?

If they really hates Tom as what you claim then they would not buy his movies, don’t they? German government did not ban all of Tom’s films don’t they? Tom is welcome to visit Germany for holiday if he likes to and can talk positive and negative whatever he likes. He is not ban from Germany but ban from use government´s property.

You will learn to understand why the Germans are right to be suspicious of this Scientology organization. They found out that Scientology is really a commercial organization, not a religion.

They have their rights to their own views if they do not want someone to play in this role because they view Scientology as a dangerous cult.

Germany Info: Information Services: Archives: Background Papers

20 Apr 73 - SNOW WHITE PROGRAM

I can understand that American and Europe’s cultural traditions are very different. We also have different freedom of speech, that’s way what we like and what we believe in. I can see that we have more freedom of speech and religion restriction than in America which we support and believe is good and safe for the children’s welfare and interest etc., it should not abuse the people, also violence etc due their "belief".
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My opinion that German government don't want fell third victims. They want show how is their system protect German people living better and well than their previous past time. I applause east and west into together one German. I know there is long way to go. My heritage family is from German.
 
TFWFalcon said:
My opinion that German government don't want fell third victims. They want show how is their system protect German people living better and well than their previous past time. I applause east and west into together one German. I know there is long way to go. My heritage family is from German.
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Yes I second that. I thought the same as you as well.

That's why I applause German government for that.
 
Cruise is 'Goebbels of Scientology', says German church
By Tony Paterson in Berlin

Published: 23 July 2007

The German Protestant Church compared the Hollywood film star Tom Cruise to the Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels yesterday and claimed the actor was using his celebrity status to publicise the controversial Church of Scientology, of which he is a prominent member.

The criticism of Mr Cruise, who is in Germany to make a film about an attempt to assassinate Adolf Hitler, was the most vitriolic in a series of attacks on the actor over his membership of Scientology - regarded as a cult in Germany and kept under surveillance.

Thomas Gandow, 60, chief spokesman on religious cults for the German Protestant Church, described Scientology as a "totalitarian organisation" and said that Mr Cruise had become "the Goebbels of Scientology".

In the film Valkyrie ,Tom Cruise, 45, plays Claus von Stauffenberg, a German army officer and aristocrat who tried to assassinate Hitler in 1944 by planting a bomb inside the Nazi leader's East Prussian headquarters. However, Mr Gandow dismissed the film yesterday as "propaganda for Scientology". Mr Gandow added, in a reference to the favourable publicity won by Hitler's Nazi party during the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games: "This film will have the same propaganda advantages for Scientology as the 1936 Olympics had for the Nazis."

Mr Gandow's attack on the actor followed criticism from the German Defence Ministry, which banned the actor from filming at key military sites in Berlin which were authentic locations during the 1944 plot.

Antje Blumenthal, a conservative MP and Scientology critic, said: "Unlike the Nazi propaganda minister, Tom Cruise has the sympathy of the public. As a Scientology ambassador he uses his popularity very cleverly in the interests of the totalitarian sect."

Meanwhile, Dieter Wedel, 46, a veteran German film director, joined other film buffs yesterday in criticising the campaign against the actor. "This sort of discussion damages Germany as a film location. What an actor believes is irrelevant. I agree that Scientology is dangerous, but there are other ways to combat the organisation," he said.

Despite the public row, the film has been quietly awarded sponsorship from the German film board.
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Cruise is 'Goebbels of Scientology', says German church - Independent Online Edition > Europe
 
How does the movie promote Scientology? Is Scientology even mentioned in the film? I don't think so. Is Scientology promoting the film? No. It's a movie to make money for the movie makers.

I'm not a fan of Tom Cruise but this blatant case of selective persecution is not showing the Germans in a positive light.

What about these celebrities:

Famous Scientologists (Church of Scientology)

What about members of other cults? What about members of groups that advocate violence or sex with kids? They make movies, too.

For being such an "open-minded" society, Germany seems to close its mind when it comes to freedom of speech.

Interesting.
 
Reba said:
How does the movie promote Scientology? Is Scientology even mentioned in the film? I don't think so. Is Scientology promoting the film? No. It's a movie to make money for the movie makers.

I'm not a fan of Tom Cruise but this blatant case of selective persecution is not showing the Germans in a positive light.

What about these celebrities:

For being such an "open-minded" society, Germany seems to close its mind when it comes to freedom of speech.

Interesting.
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:hmm: interesting!!! those word come from you... wow...

I’m not interesting in telling you what forms of free speech what we have or not or whatever in Germany and America and then label Germany and America as closed minded or whatever.

All what I want to say is just get the facts straight. Again, Tom is NOT banned from Germany neither Scientology but reject him from use Government’s property. This is a difference. I would against if German Government banned Tom from Germany and forbid them to use film business in Germany but they doesn’t. Tom is allows to use any property for filming in Germany if the property owner, Government property or business owner's property allow him to… The decision is make by Government for not want him to use their property. Would you also call me closed mind or whatever for reject you or someone to use my property for filming? Where’s your respect?

To my understanding that Germany has good reason to consider Scientology as a dangerous cult and a business – abusing and manipulating the people. (accord few links in my previous post).

The fear is that Cruise will use the film, which he is co-producing, to turn the von Stauffenberg story into a propaganda vehicle for Scientology. In Germany, where many politicians see Scientology as akin to Nazism, the authorities have been fighting hard against the sect for a decade. It is even under observation by the Federal Agency for the Protection of the Constitution, a body that usually hunts spies, terrorists and neo-Nazis.

Franz-Josef Jung, the German Defence Minister, has now ruled that Cruise should not be allowed to film in the inner courtyard of his ministry where von Stauffenberg was shot by the Nazis.

Dr Jung made his decision to lock out Cruise after being buttonholed by Antje Blumenthal who is the Christian Democratic Party’s expert on Scientology. “If we had let Cruise in to film it would have been a public relations coup for the organisation, especially as the actor uses every chance to promote Scientology,” she said.

Ursula Caberta, director of a Hamburg-based task-force that has been investigating the sect for more than a decade, said: “If you analyse L. Ron Hubbard and his writings, you will see that he is advancing the idea of a totalitarian state and of the Übermensch (the “superman”). Because of our history we have to be much more careful about this kind of thing spreading.”

The von Stauffenberg family is far from happy about Cruise’s film. Count Berthold von Stauffenberg, the son of the executed officer, said bluntly: “He should keep his fingers off my father.”

When the authorities set plain-clothes police on the trail of the Scientologists ten years ago, Hollywood responded with a broadside against the German Government. Actors including Dustin Hoffman and Goldie Hawn, the producers Aaron Spelling and Cherry Lansing and others signed an open letter – published as newspaper ads – comparing German treatment of Scientologists to Hitler’s discrimination against the Jews. Helmut Kohl, the Chancellor, said that the stars had “no idea about Germany and do not want to learn about the country, otherwise they would not have dreamt this up”.

The tension between the sect and the German Government has grown over the years. Civil servants in Bavaria are vetted to see if they are Scientologists. Recently police announced that Scientologists were organising low-cost after-school tuition for schoolchildren and steps were taken to stop it.

This year the Scientologists opened a steel-and-glass HQ in the centre of Berlin as a base from which to lobby the Government, a venue that Cruise and his retinue recently went to on a midnight visit.

However, film critics point out that there is no evidence that Cruise uses his film roles to enhance the reputation of Scientology. When Cruise’s production team proposed suspending him by a wire from the glass dome of the Reichstag for Mission: Impossible III, there was a debate in parliament but no one suggested that it was a plot by Scientologists. In the end permission was refused.
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Cruise film triggers fears of Scientology hijacking war hero - Times Online

German Government has good reason to make decision... Excellent decision *thumbup*

Remember, German is not alone but many Europe countries say the same thing about Scientology issues (see my links in previous posts).

I am glad that the Government has respect for human rights and protect their people...

Accord German websites, they aer plan to hire German actor to play in Stauffenberg story. Wait and see...
 
Reba said:
What about these celebrities:

Famous Scientologists (Church of Scientology)
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Interesting and thank you for provided those link. I am not surprised after saw those link... No wonder, why Scientology brainwashed rich people... :lol: I understand why German Government prevent it.


What about members of other cults? What about members of groups that advocate violence or sex with kids? They make movies, too.
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Could you please make the list of cult or groups who have sex or violence with kids?
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Liebling:-))) said:
wow, many churches around America.
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It's a big country.

I found 2 links about cult and religion here in Germany.

Religion in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scientology, Germany, Religion, Cults, D'Mato, Religious Persecution, Religious Freedom
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That last link had some interesting comments:

...it must be acknowledged that the available evidence supports some of the charges that some minority religions are being harassed to the point of persecution in Germany today. Where critiques by Scientologists and similar groups tend to fail is in their inability to appreciate the complexity of the German Constitutional and legal process, not to mention German society as a whole. As a result many of these groups tend to see a conspiracy and draw the conclusion that leading politicians must be directing the attacks they experience when in fact they are the result of complex social processes.

Actually, while some politicians such as Berlin SPD deputy and Enquete-Komission member Renate Rennebach seem to be making a career of attacking minority religions, the majority of politicians appear to be reacting to popular pressure created by the media and numerous publications exposing the dangers of minority religions. Thus it seems that the understandable conclusion draw by members of new religions about a government wide crusade against minority religions is wrong and counterproductive. Nevertheless, it is true that the mistreatment of minority religions is deeply rooted in German society.

There is no doubt that the Protestant EKD and Roman Catholic Church play an important role in shaping German perceptions of minority religions both directly and through their influence on various levels of government. Apart from the major watchdog organizations mentioned above there are approximately 190 so-called Sektenbeauftrager, or cult experts, employed throughout Germany by churches, local and State governments. Some observers might call the cult experts employed by the churches inquisitors. This is because they are professional clergy with theological training who investigate the activities of potential rivals in the marketplace of religion and spirituality.

The main complaint about the work of these cult experts is that they tend to present essentially theological arguments as though they represent the findings of social-scientific research. An examination of some key works published by such people shows major weaknesses in the way they gather data. There are ethical concerns about their activities because it can be said with confidence that most of their "research" would not pass an Ethics Review at a Canadian university. Instead of using proven research techniques involving random sampling, participant observation, life history interviews, etc., German cult experts usually uncritically accept the testimony of ex-members. Thus they form judgments on the basis of highly questionable data. Further, although all levels of government employ people who work in the area of minority religions these officials appear to take their cue from the clergy. They also seem to show little interest in serious scientifically formulated empirical research.

A quick examination of most Government and private publications dealing with minority religions reveals that many contain long lists of both Government and church cult experts eager to help concerned citizens. Thus, a large Government funded bureaucracy exists employing people whose only justification is the existence of a problems they are employed to solve. It must also be remembered that the Government through State levied Church taxes and other funds indirectly support church cult experts.

Finally, some German politicians appear to have jumped on the "dangers" of cults and minority religion bandwagon in an uncritical manner. Thus, for example, when Spirita: Zeitschrift für Gerligionswissenschaft published articles on Scientology which, while very critical, granted that Scientology was a genuine religion, various politicians attempted to have the journal closed down (private communication with publishers). Cf. Spirita, Marburg, Diagonal Verlag, November 1993, 1/93, pp.5-48; and November 1994, 1-2/94, pp. 52-55).
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Interesting.
 
Reba said:
It's a big country.


That last link had some interesting comments:



Interesting.
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Interesting... I am not surprise about your comment because I know you well... Anyway, those link, I provided is 1998. I read those 2nd link and want to hear your comment on this... :D

Here is other link of 2004...

Scientology loses major court case in Germany

I know a little about Scientology until last year... I learn more about those cult and must say that German Government has the right to not accept Scientology as church.

Scientologists are sour of German and Europe countries for not recognize their belief as a religion.

Fight at court between Scientologists and German Government... courts... Some won and some lost to 2001.

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/faq-you/germany.txt

Germany is not alone but other Europe countries as well...
Germany Info: Information Services: Archives: Background Papers

German and other Europe countries have no reason to jump on that "danger cult" since they know their reputation as a dangerous cult...

20 Apr 73 - SNOW WHITE PROGRAM
 
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