Gene detector to prevent child deafness in China

Reba said:
ref: #1. above.

That's assuming deaf couples don't want a deaf baby.

If China didn't have such a restrictive one-baby-per-family law, there would be less pressure on couples to seek a "perfect" baby.

It's assumed by many that "special needs" babies require more material support, and therefore could be more of a social "burden." So, the government steps in with social engineering via medical, cough, cough, research.

This smells too much like eugenics.

Just my opinion.
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it's a common practice in poor/developing country where couples are pressured into discarding defective or female babies.
 
GrendelQ said:
No, it shouldn't be.
But "eugenics" in China can be compared to "eugenics" in the US.
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That is false logic, and that is not comparable.

But as you know, I don't bother to argue, so if you want to say something else, everyone can just take it for granted that I refuted your inflammatory nonsense ad infinitum.
 
Bottesini said:
That is false logic, and that is not comparable.

But as you know, I don't bother to argue, so if you want to say something else, everyone can just take it for granted that I refuted your inflammatory nonsense ad infinitum.
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That's sweet of you. Hope you are doing well, too. :wave:
 
Jiro said:
it's a common practice in poor/developing country where couples are pressured into discarding defective or female babies.
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What do you mean by, "discarding"? Do you mean abortion, or something else?
 
CSign said:
What do you mean by, "discarding"? Do you mean abortion, or something else?
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My little one was "discarded" / abandoned for this reason (being a girl). But there's now an increase in using ultrasound / amniocentesis for gender detection in China and India, so the hundreds of thousands of girls left abandoned are no longer appearing at anything near the same rate as 5, 10 years ago. Instead, somehow the percentage of girls born is far less than boys now. :cool2:
 
TWA said:
It's an obscurely worded article, but I took it to mean that this "gene detector" is going to identify individuals that are susceptible to becoming deaf as a result of taking certain antibiotics. I find absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But... who knows what they're really up to? The part Botts highlighted is particularly dubious in meaning.
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I think you are right, that the primary issue is detecting individuals with a specific gene mutation which is known to cause deafness in those who take antibiotics.

It also seems that the article is specifically referring to the Chinese population- that particular genes known to cause deafness are known and recognized in the Chinese population, so studies done with other populations wouldn't really refute or support that point.

And I agree, the part Botti highlighted is ominous.

The one child policy is far more widespread than the Chinese gov't wants to admit. Otherwise, Chen Guangcheng, the blind activist who recently revealed just how widespread the forced sterilizations and abortions really are, would be a free man.

Peter Navarro and Greg Autry: Blind Man's Bluff and Peddling Flesh in Today's China
 
Bottesini said:
That is false logic, and that is not comparable.

But as you know, I don't bother to argue, so if you want to say something else, everyone can just take it for granted that I refuted your inflammatory nonsense ad infinitum.
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Eugenics is eugenics wherever it happens, and it is comparable.

In Germany, in 1933, the Reich Cabinet passed the "Law on Preventing Hereditarily Diseased Progeny," calling for involuntary sterilization of all those identified as bearers of hereditary disease, including deafness, blindness, 'feeblemindedness,' and even alcoholism.

It doesn't stop being eugenics just because it's voluntary in this country.
 
GrendelQ said:
My little one was "discarded" / abandoned for this reason (being a girl). But there's now an increase in using ultrasound / amniocentesis for gender detection in China and India, so the hundreds of thousands of girls left abandoned are no longer appearing at anything near the same rate as 5, 10 years ago. Instead, somehow the percentage of girls born is far less than boys now. :cool2:
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:ty: Grendel... Sounds like that was probably what Jiro was referring to.

It blows my mind what little value some countries place on human life.
 
Reba said:
ref: #1. above.

That's assuming deaf couples don't want a deaf baby.

If China didn't have such a restrictive one-baby-per-family law, there would be less pressure on couples to seek a "perfect" baby.

It's assumed by many that "special needs" babies require more material support, and therefore could be more of a social "burden." So, the government steps in with social engineering via medical, cough, cough, research.

This smells too much like eugenics.

Just my opinion.
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In fact, if the first child is deaf, they can have another. But many deaf couples end up with two deaf children because they have the same deaf gene.

I don't know about states. But in China, deafness means great hardship in education, employment and etc. So it is understandable that most parents want to prevent their children from deafness.
 
CSign said:
What do you mean by, "discarding"? Do you mean abortion, or something else?
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yes - abortion, selling, throwing away like a garbage, etc. :(

CSign said:
:ty: Grendel... Sounds like that was probably what Jiro was referring to.

It blows my mind what little value some countries place on human life.
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no don't think like that. it's not that some countries place a little value on human life. it's just what the life is when it comes to wealth and poverty.

it turns my stomach and breaks my heart when parents are forced to discard their babies. the worst part... I'm pretty sure it hurts them much more than mine. life's just too damn cruel in poor country and it's just much crueler to raise a child in an environment if parents knew it won't grow up well. :( so they're actually doing their babies a favor from lifetime of misery and horror.

in this country... I'm glad that we have ascended to where all people get a second chance in life.
 
CSign said:
:ty: Grendel... Sounds like that was probably what Jiro was referring to.

It blows my mind what little value some countries place on human life.
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Why would that "blow your mind".?? Have a look at history....
 
Foxrac said:
What is your point?

These thread isn't about issue with communist.

China isn't true communist, nor is socialist.
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All I can say is oh, my God! and you know no shit. The communists violate human rights. That's what China does for a very long time. A famous blind Chinese activist named Chen Guangcheng opposed the communist's one-child law so they arrested him but he finally escaped.

China, Vietnam, North Korea and Cuba are communists in reality. Russia is no longer a communist.

Therefore this thread is about a communist since it's about China. Hey, they found deafness in your genes so you are not allowed to make a baby. WTF? That's PURE COMMUNISM.
 
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CrazyPaul said:
All I can say is oh, my God! and you know no shit. The communists violate human rights. That's what China does for a very long time. A famous blind Chinese activist named Chen Guangcheng opposed the communist's one-child law so they arrested him but he finally escaped.

China, Vietnam, North Korea and Cuba are communists in reality. Russia is no longer a communist.

Therefore this thread is about a communist since it's about China. Hey, they found deafness in your genes so you are not allowed to make a baby. WTF? That's PURE COMMUNISM.
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lol, that shows about how ignorant are you.

Like I said, China, North Korea and Vietnam are not true communist because their government is more form of authoritarian. China and Vietnam are capitalism in economy and they have poor worker rights because communist is originally to support strong worker rights, even poor human rights because communist supposed to take care of all humans, no matters about who are theirs. Cuba is closer to true communist but their government is authoritarian - that's not originally of communist, even USSR are same as well. Most Russians have generation from communist and their influence already given from generation to generation.

Back in before 1980's, there were no one child policy in China and their economy is based on communist so they changed to toss communist out. The communist doesn't support selective babies that based on gender, disabilities, etc. In USA, we know some women have abort their newborn after Down Syndrome or other diseases detected. Both of communist and socialism are nothing with control of women with pregnancies, except for support their choice to keep or have abortion. Take control of women with pregnancies are form of authoritarian, that's different from communist.

There are some elected officials that are member of Communist Party and they support based on true communist, not combine of communist and authoritarian.

That's sad about people have underestimate on definition of communist and socialism.
 
Foxrac said:
lol, that shows about how ignorant are you.

Like I said, China, North Korea and Vietnam are not true communist because their government is more form of authoritarian. China and Vietnam are capitalism in economy and they have poor worker rights because communist is originally to support strong worker rights, even poor human rights because communist supposed to take care of all humans, no matters about who are theirs. Cuba is closer to true communist but their government is authoritarian - that's not originally of communist, even USSR are same as well. Most Russians have generation from communist and their influence already given from generation to generation.

Back in before 1980's, there were no one child policy in China and their economy is based on communist so they changed to toss communist out. The communist doesn't support selective babies that based on gender, disabilities, etc. In USA, we know some women have abort their newborn after Down Syndrome or other diseases detected. Both of communist and socialism are nothing with control of women with pregnancies, except for support their choice to keep or have abortion. Take control of women with pregnancies are form of authoritarian, that's different from communist.

There are some elected officials that are member of Communist Party and they support based on true communist, not combine of communist and authoritarian.

That's sad about people have underestimate on definition of communist and socialism.
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I googled it and most of them answer that China is a communist country where a freedom of speech is forbidden.
 
Cloggy said:
Why would that "blow your mind".?? Have a look at history....
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I know about the history...

Still is shocking to me though, that as far as "we've" come the farther behind some fall...
 
Which is better? Have genetic testing done to determine the likelihood that a couple would pass off certain "undesirable condition" to a newborn, or discover the "undesirable condition" while the fetus/baby is still in the womb and have an abortion.
 
CrazyPaul said:
I googled it and most of them answer that China is a communist country where a freedom of speech is forbidden.
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You should know that China government is just hypocrite.

Banning on freedom of speech is form of authoritarian, not communist idea.

You know about China constitution say people should enjoy their freedom of speech.
Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.
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CONSTITUTION OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

China is just hypocrite and their government is completely fool.
 
kokonut said:
Which is better? Have genetic testing done to determine the likelihood that a couple would pass off certain "undesirable condition" to a newborn, or discover the "undesirable condition" while the fetus/baby is still in the womb and have an abortion.
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If a couple wants to know whether their newborn baby will be normal or not, that's fine. However if a deaf couple in China wants to make a baby, their rights would be violated when the communist says that they are not allowed to do so because of deafness in one or both of their genes detected. That's not the government's business.
 
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