Fundamentalist fools and the conservatives who love them

[Vance]

DUMMERSTON, Vt. - How can a group of people have almost total control over government, the judicial system and the press and still whine incessantly about being victims?

We all know the answer. You can do it if you're a conservative.

With each passing day, the right's grip on our nation tightens, but still they whine about those mean ol' liberals who are supposedly still beating them up for their lunch money.

It makes a great diversion to take people's attention away from their goal of turning the United States into a one-party country where there are no checks, no balances, and no countervailing power to stop them.

That why we have to keep our eye on the ball in the coming weeks.

While conservatives whine about obstructionism, remember that Democrats approved nearly all of President Bush's nominees to the federal bench, a courtesy that Republicans did not extend to President Clinton.

While they rant about judicial activism, remember that conservatives now control 10 of the 13 circuits of the U.S. Court of Appeals, the last legal stop before the Supreme Court.

While they try to hide behind Jesus and the Bible, remember that while outlawing gay marriage and abortion may motivate the conservative Christians who are the base of the modern Republican Party, that's not the real goal.

The real goal is to get rid of the minimum wage, the 40-hour work week, workplace safety rules, environmental protection laws, zoning laws, taxation, and Social Security - in short, virtually every law passed in the past 70 years.

It's not about Terry Schiavo. It's not about turning the nation into a theocracy, although that will be a pleasant side effect for conservatives. It's about repealing the New Deal. It's about again consolidating economic and political power in fewer and fewer hands.

In other words, it's the same old song the conservatives have been singing for decades, except now, they are using Christian fundamentalists as their shock troops to achieve the one-party state where the fundamentalists can control morality while the industrialists control the money.

You think guys like House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist honestly and truly care about morality and Christian values? What they honestly and truly care about is staying in power and helping out the folks who funnel billions of dollars to support a political party that ensures the rich will get much, much richer at the expense of everyone else, including those good Christians praying for God to smite those few remaining liberals in public life.

If, by cloaking it in Christianity, you can make people accept what, by any objective measure, is economic elitism at best and fascism at worst, all the better.

Fundamentalist Christians, with their easy certainty about their ultimate salvation, don't particularly care about civil liberties, separation of church and state, scientific knowledge or anything that conflicts with their Biblical view of the world. And since many sincerely believe that God has blessed this nation with the steadfast leadership of George W. Bush, they will do anything that is asked of them.

You can't get better political footsoldiers than these folks. They are the true believers. They are the one who vote and work their butts off for candidates and causes. Conservatives know this, and are happy to embrace the fundamentalists as the key to staying in power.

We may yet get a theocracy in this country, but morality has been proven to be the most effective diversion to get people to support politicians who consistently act against their interests.

"Hell-bent to get government off our backs, you installed a tyrant infinitely better equipped to suck the joy out of life," wrote Thomas Frank in The Baffler magazine in 2001 as he summed up the costs of three decades of fighting the culture wars. "Cuckoo to get God back in schools, you enshrined a god of unappeasable malice. Raging against the snobs, you enthroned a rum bunch of two-fisted boodlers, upper-class twits, and hang-'em high moralists. Ain't irony grand."

It would be grand, except that, four years later, Frank's vision at the dawn of George W. Bush's first term turned out to be not bleak enough. While there still is a modicum of freedom offered to many Americans, there is still a pervasive fear that has gripped the United States since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, and when people are confused and afraid, they are willing to sign on to anything.

Prison camps and torture are fine, so long as dark-skinned folks are the ones being locked up and tortured. Invading other nations under false pretenses is OK, if it means we will be safe. Likewise for curtailing our civil liberties. After all, God is on our side.

Here is the ultimate question. We know that being Christian is not necessarily synonymous with being an irrational nut. We know there are thoughtful people who are appalled that their faith is being exploited for political gain. How many honest Christians recognize that they are being played for fools by conservatives who are more interested in money and power than in morality? How many of them are willing to stand up and reclaim their faith from the reactionaries who are using the cross as a sword?

Remember, it's not about God. It's about wealth and power and using the supposedly godly to push through the most ungodly policies this nation has ever seen. It's fascism with a cross instead of a swastika.

Source: http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=20807&mode=nested&order=0

 

[harleymn]

you just said it

DUMMERSTON, Vt. - How can a group of people have almost total control over government, the judicial system and the press and still whine incessantly about being victims?

We all know the answer. You can do it if you're a conservative.

With each passing day, the right's grip on our nation tightens, but still they whine about those mean ol' liberals who are supposedly still beating them up for their lunch money.

It makes a great diversion to take people's attention away from their goal of turning the United States into a one-party country where there are no checks, no balances, and no countervailing power to stop them.

That why we have to keep our eye on the ball in the coming weeks.

While conservatives whine about obstructionism, remember that Democrats approved nearly all of President Bush's nominees to the federal bench, a courtesy that Republicans did not extend to President Clinton.

While they rant about judicial activism, remember that conservatives now control 10 of the 13 circuits of the U.S. Court of Appeals, the last legal stop before the Supreme Court.

While they try to hide behind Jesus and the Bible, remember that while outlawing gay marriage and abortion may motivate the conservative Christians who are the base of the modern Republican Party, that's not the real goal.

The real goal is to get rid of the minimum wage, the 40-hour work week, workplace safety rules, environmental protection laws, zoning laws, taxation, and Social Security - in short, virtually every law passed in the past 70 years.

It's not about Terry Schiavo. It's not about turning the nation into a theocracy, although that will be a pleasant side effect for conservatives. It's about repealing the New Deal. It's about again consolidating economic and political power in fewer and fewer hands.

In other words, it's the same old song the conservatives have been singing for decades, except now, they are using Christian fundamentalists as their shock troops to achieve the one-party state where the fundamentalists can control morality while the industrialists control the money.

You think guys like House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist honestly and truly care about morality and Christian values? What they honestly and truly care about is staying in power and helping out the folks who funnel billions of dollars to support a political party that ensures the rich will get much, much richer at the expense of everyone else, including those good Christians praying for God to smite those few remaining liberals in public life.

If, by cloaking it in Christianity, you can make people accept what, by any objective measure, is economic elitism at best and fascism at worst, all the better.

Fundamentalist Christians, with their easy certainty about their ultimate salvation, don't particularly care about civil liberties, separation of church and state, scientific knowledge or anything that conflicts with their Biblical view of the world. And since many sincerely believe that God has blessed this nation with the steadfast leadership of George W. Bush, they will do anything that is asked of them.

You can't get better political footsoldiers than these folks. They are the true believers. They are the one who vote and work their butts off for candidates and causes. Conservatives know this, and are happy to embrace the fundamentalists as the key to staying in power.

We may yet get a theocracy in this country, but morality has been proven to be the most effective diversion to get people to support politicians who consistently act against their interests.

"Hell-bent to get government off our backs, you installed a tyrant infinitely better equipped to suck the joy out of life," wrote Thomas Frank in The Baffler magazine in 2001 as he summed up the costs of three decades of fighting the culture wars. "Cuckoo to get God back in schools, you enshrined a god of unappeasable malice. Raging against the snobs, you enthroned a rum bunch of two-fisted boodlers, upper-class twits, and hang-'em high moralists. Ain't irony grand."

It would be grand, except that, four years later, Frank's vision at the dawn of George W. Bush's first term turned out to be not bleak enough. While there still is a modicum of freedom offered to many Americans, there is still a pervasive fear that has gripped the United States since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, and when people are confused and afraid, they are willing to sign on to anything.

Prison camps and torture are fine, so long as dark-skinned folks are the ones being locked up and tortured. Invading other nations under false pretenses is OK, if it means we will be safe. Likewise for curtailing our civil liberties. After all, God is on our side.

Here is the ultimate question. We know that being Christian is not necessarily synonymous with being an irrational nut. We know there are thoughtful people who are appalled that their faith is being exploited for political gain. How many honest Christians recognize that they are being played for fools by conservatives who are more interested in money and power than in morality? How many of them are willing to stand up and reclaim their faith from the reactionaries who are using the cross as a sword?

Remember, it's not about God. It's about wealth and power and using the supposedly godly to push through the most ungodly policies this nation has ever seen. It's fascism with a cross instead of a swastika.

Source: http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=20807&mode=nested&order=0

you said to be conservative thats rebublicans right!i thought democrats is liberal isnt that what you are saying?

 

[Codger]

Well, look around the site he is quoting and see for yourself where he gets some of his views of our country. :sure:

 

[Vance]

you said to be conservative thats rebublicans right!i thought democrats is liberal isnt that what you are saying?

I am not sure what you were imposing but not all of republicans are conservatives. I can use Ocreanbreeze as example... she is a liberal republican. My good friend is a conservative democrat. [edit] There are different level of conservative. Social, Radical, Traditional, etc etc... I am semi-conservative and semi-liberal. I will explain more in my new topic someday. Actually, many conservatives don't know what 'true' conservatism means... I was shocked by that when I read few articles. Again, I will cover about that in new topic. [/edit]

Well, look around the site he is quoting and see for yourself where he gets some of his views of our country.

Codger, btw, that is not only site... some moderate conservative sites are talking about that too. In fact, there was few conservative site where social conservatives are getting angry at Religious Right for hijacking their party and worried about the Theocracy coming. I guess you didn't see other side like I did. I bet a million dollar that you will doubt my words so I offer you this excellent example (less angry, more rational): Message to social conservatives: Thanks for the votes. We’ll call you in four years. by conservative magazine.

There are several more from social/moderate conservative sites but I believe I rest my case Have a nice day btw, I looked in both side views of this country (by reading the articles by liberals and conservatives plus books & magazines so I know what I am talking) but if you prefer to know only one side of this country then that's your decision but I will offer you my condolences to you (and myself) whenever the reality swing down and hit us.

 

[Vance]

Codger, sorry if I make a wrong guess but I guess that you prefer to lend your ears to this hardcore fundamentalist and conservative christian rather than my hard facts or these social conservatives... or that smirkingchimp site so here it is:


I Am A Conservative Christian, And The Religious Right Scares Me, Too

For those readers who are unfamiliar with my biography, let me here provide a thumbnail sketch of my conservative bona fides:

I attended, graduated, or received degrees from fundamentalist Christian schools such as Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan, Thomas Road Bible Institute (now known as Liberty Bible Institute at Liberty University) in Lynchburg, Virginia, Christian Bible College in Rocky Mount, North Carolina, and Trinity Baptist College in Jacksonville, Florida.

I am currently in my thirtieth year as the Senior Pastor of the Crossroad Baptist Church (Independent) in Pensacola, Florida. I was the Executive Director of the Florida Moral Majority in the early 1980's. I was an active member of the local Christian Coalition.

I have marched and protested against abortion clinics. I have led several pro-life rallies and even led our church to construct A Memorial To Aborted Babies. I have conducted small and large (some drawing crowds numbering in the thousands) pro-life, pro-family rallies and meetings in the Pensacola area and in many towns and cities across the state of Florida.

When Ronald Reagan was running for President, I helped Dr. Jerry Falwell register more than fifty thousand new conservative voters in my state. I have attended White House functions with former President Reagan and former Vice President George H.W. Bush.

I supported and defended Chief Justice Roy Moore and his fight to display a Ten Commandments monument at a pro-Ten Commandments rally in Montgomery, Alabama and even on national television.

I am an annual member of the National Rifle Association and a life member of Gun Owners of America. I have been the featured speaker at several pro-Second Amendment rallies.

No one can honestly question my commitment to pro-life, pro-family, conservative causes. That being said, the Religious Right, as it now exists, scares me.

For one reason, on the whole, the Religious Right has obviously and patently become little more than a propaganda machine for the Republican Party in general and for President G.W. Bush in particular. This is in spite of the fact that both Bush and the Republican Party in Washington, D.C., have routinely ignored and even trampled the very principles which the Religious Right claims to represent.

Therefore, no longer does the Religious Right represent conservative, Christian values. Instead, they represent their own self-serving interests at the expense of those values.

It also appears painfully obvious to me that in order to sit at the king's table, the Religious Right is willing to compromise any principle, no matter how sacred. As such, it has become a hollow movement. Sadly, the Religious Right is now a movement without a cause, except the cause of advancing the Republican Party.

Beyond that, the Religious Right is actively assisting those who would destroy our freedoms. On the whole, the Religious Right comports with those within the Bush administration and within the Republican Party who, in the name of "fighting terrorism," are actually terrorizing constitutional protections of our liberties.

The Religious Right offered virtually no resistance to the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, the passage of the Patriot Act, or the recently created position of National Intelligence Director. Neither did the Religious Right offer even a whimper of protest as President Bush and Republicans in Congress created a first-ever national ID card in the new intelligence bill, which eerily has more in common with early Twentieth Century German and Russian intelligence institutions than anything envisioned by America's Founding Fathers.

Another disconcerting feature of today's Religious Right is its attempt to Christianize political entities which it supports and to demonize political entities which it opposes. This trend is especially scary.

When people are told that they are voting "Christian" by voting for Republican Party candidates, it is being intimated that they are voting non-Christian by voting for any other candidate. This is not only silly on its face, it is downright dangerous!

I don't remember anyone saying people voted "Christian" when they elected the outspoken Christian candidate, Jimmy Carter, President. Yet, Carter, in his personal life, demonstrated as much, if not more, Christianity than does George W. Bush. If you recall, Carter even taught Sunday School in a Southern Baptist Church while President.

However, in spite of the fact that President Bush and the Republican Party in Washington, D.C., have repeatedly supported copious unchristian (not to mention unconstitutional) programs and policies, Christians act as if Bush and his fellow Republicans have ushered in the Millennial Kingdom.

More than that, the Religious Right appears to believe that G.W. Bush is the anointed vicar of Christ. But instead of wearing the garb of a religious leader, he wears the shroud of a politico and a military commander-in-chief.

As such, in the minds of the Religious Right, Bush's war in Iraq is a holy crusade. America is fast taking on the shape of the old Holy Roman Empire and President Bush is quickly morphing into a modern day Caesar.

The willingness of the Religious Right to give President Bush king-like subservience is easily seen in the way they demonize anyone who dares to oppose him. This is very unnerving.

Are we heading for a modern day religious inquisition, this one led not by the Catholic Church but by the Religious Right? Are we witnessing the type of marriage between Church and State that America's founders originally feared?

I used to believe that liberals were paranoid for being fearful of conservative Christians gaining political power. Now, I share their trepidation.

Of course, the sad truth is, neither George W. Bush nor the Republican Party in Washington, D.C. represents genuine Christian or even conservative principles. If they did, they would take their oaths to the Constitution seriously and then neither liberals nor conservatives would have anything to fear, for the U.S. Constitution protects the rights and freedoms of all men.

Unfortunately, when the seed of Bush's unconstitutional policies come to fruition, it will produce large scale fallout economically, socially, and politically. And sadder still will be that, instead of blaming Bush's infidelity to constitutional government and conservative principles, people will blame Christianity and conservatism itself. The result of this miscalculation will doubtless be a massive tide of support for more and greater unconstitutional government, but only under a different name.

Source: http://www.covenantnews.com/baldwin041215.htm


When a hardcore fundamentalist and conservative christian like Chuck Baldwin feels fear of Religious Right, I believe that we should heed his words about Religious Right too. That says something about these Religious Right and Theocracy, no? I read his Baldwin's articles way before I found smirkingchimp site. I am planning to have a formal consultation with Baldwin if he have some time for a humble wanderer like me. There are more people like him at different sites & magazines that I read but for the time being, Baldwin's comments will do for this topic.

Therefore I am not surprised that several articles that posted at smirkingchimp/moderate & social conservative sites hit the right spot but the problem is that there is massive "narrow tunnel" disease or rather, syndrome among certain religious groups. I don't remember which books that I read but it mentioned that religion is great 'tool' to cover people's eyes with the wools and tell them what to think and what to do... which according to Baldwin and other people, it works very, very well nowaday in America (and world).

It is not only my so-called 'view' as someone erroneously put in. Thanks.


harleymn, I realize that I made a error in my post. Here's correction: I am not sure what you were implying but not all of republicans are conservatives.

 

[Reba]

Codger, sorry if I make a wrong guess but I guess that you prefer to lend your ears to this hardcore fundamentalist and conservative christian rather than my hard facts ...

Your original post is not "hard facts"; it is an editorial or opinion piece. There is a big difference between "facts" and "opinions". Of course, even opinions should be supported by facts. But sweeping generalizations are not "facts".

...I am planning to have a formal consultation with Baldwin if he have some time for a humble wanderer like me....

Oh Mag, you have many attributes, but "humble" is not one of them.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

I am not sure what you were imposing but not all of republicans are conservatives. I can use Ocreanbreeze as example... she is a liberal republican. QUOTE]

Uh, one slight correction there, friend. I'm actually a Moderate Republican.

Overall, you are correct. My views tend to run from a more l liberal slant, but I also can run more to a centrist viewpoint as well. It depends on the issue, really. To be honest with you, I don't consider myself to be a liberal, moderate, or a conservative. I hate labels. My opinions are mine and mine only.

I believe in things that makes sense and what is fair to people. I also think there's a right and a wrong, but my definition of that may differ from someone else's. That is fine, but I WILL speak up, when and if, I think something isn't right. I don't like seeing people hated for being who they are, and I don't like it when people try to force opinions down my throat or anybody else's! This just drives me insane.

Anyway, Magatsu. You sent me on a rant here! To sum it up, though. I believe in treating people fairly, and I'm really very afraid of what is happening in our society right now. Very afraid. I sincerely hope this country can find it's way back to a middle ground again, because, this country is very out of control.

 

[Vance]

Your original post is not "hard facts"; it is an editorial or opinion piece. There is a big difference between "facts" and "opinions". Of course, even opinions should be supported by facts. But sweeping generalizations are not "facts".

Really? Evidences are growing and growing every day... Er... it will be offtopic and I will post the evidences in new topic. I have been planning to do that for a while now. But as based on this topic, you are right because I haven't post the evidences which I prefer to save until new topic.

Oh Mag, you have many attributes, but "humble" is not one of them.

I am sure that you have slightly different personalities in internet world. I am sure that some people easily read me off as "asshole" in internet world because of my "speak up directly from my mind" attitude but in reality, I am humble and shy. In reality, I tend to not speak up from my mind. Well, if you do plan to go to AD Caucus, you will see why. If you don't, other AD'ers will confirm for you

Uh, one slight correction there, friend. I'm actually a Moderate Republican.

Overall, you are correct. My views tend to run from a more l liberal slant, but I also can run more to a centrist viewpoint as well. It depends on the issue, really. To be honest with you, I don't consider myself to be a liberal, moderate, or a conservative. I hate labels. My opinions are mine and mine only.

I believe in things that makes sense and what is fair to people. I also think there's a right and a wrong, but my definition of that may differ from someone else's. That is fine, but I WILL speak up, when and if, I think something isn't right. I don't like seeing people hated for being who they are, and I don't like it when people try to force opinions down my throat or anybody else's! This just drives me insane.

Anyway, Magatsu. You sent me on a rant here! To sum it up, though. I believe in treating people fairly, and I'm really very afraid of what is happening in our society right now. Very afraid. I sincerely hope this country can find it's way back to a middle ground again, because, this country is very out of control.

Oh... you mentioned that you are a liberal or maybe I was misreading? In any case, I apologized for making a wrong assumption and labeling you as 'liberal' It will not happen again.

However about your post, I completely agree with you. I like the idea of 'middle ground' or moderate. That's why I change my political stance from full liberal to semi-conservative and semi-liberal right after reading several articles and few political books. But of course, as the time being, I refuse to support the americanized conservatism in America. I don't believe in anti-choice. I also don't believe in war. I am working on a new topic (approx half-way to go) about conservatism and why I changed from far-left to "middle ground".

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Really? Evidences are growing and growing every day... Er... it will be offtopic and I will post the evidences in new topic. I have been planning to do that for a while now. But as based on this topic, you are right because I haven't post the evidences which I prefer to save until new topic.

I am sure that you have slightly different personalities in internet world. I am sure that some people easily read me off as "asshole" in internet world because of my "speak up directly from my mind" attitude but in reality, I am humble and shy. In reality, I tend to not speak up from my mind. Well, if you do plan to go to AD Caucus, you will see why. If you don't, other AD'ers will confirm for you

Oh... you mentioned that you are a liberal or maybe I was misreading? In any case, I apologized for making a wrong assumption and labeling you as 'liberal' It will not happen again.

However about your post, I completely agree with you. I like the idea of 'middle ground' or moderate. That's why I change my political stance from full liberal to semi-conservative and semi-liberal right after reading several articles and few political books. But of course, as the time being, I refuse to support the americanized conservatism in America. I don't believe in anti-choice. I also don't believe in war. I am working on a new topic (approx half-way to go) about conservatism and why I changed from far-left to "middle ground".

No apologies necessary. I have given that impression, and I have also stated that I'm a liberal. What I should have said, perhaps, is that I'm liberal minded on some things. This is certainly true of some of the areas I've stated an opinion on. Truth be told, though, I'm more of a centrist in my beliefs.