For those who suport NCLB..take a hard look at this cartoon

One of my 3rd graders last week told me that she doesnt believe in Darwin's theory on how the Earth was formed when I was teaching about the hydrosphere part of the Earth. I was shocked that she knew about it but if she was going to be tested on her knowledge of Darwin's theory using the standardized testing created for the hearing populatation, it wouldnt show what she really knows since ASL is her first language.

As a result, by imposing NCLB's standards on her, we are telling her that she is a "failure" in science but when she really is a genius at it.

Those who support the tests made for the hearing population also support the oppression of many bright deaf students out there.
 
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jillio said:
faire_jour said:
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can you give me information on testing that is normed on deaf kids for receptive and expressive spoken english? I have been told that the tests that were used in the past in those areas show very poor language skills.
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Can you give the name of the test you are currently referring to?

Tests that have been normed on deaf kids show better scores than those normed on nondeaf kids. They show better scores because they test what they are supposed to be testing and being used appropriately.

Are you talking about testing for spoken English skills, or testing for language skills. See, you don't even know what construct is being tested for.
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i am talking about a test that measures language, not speech. But yes, the language is spoken english.

it has subsets that test: sentence structure, semantic relationships, expressive vocabulary, understanding spoken paragraphs, concepts and following directions, as well as several others.

so, it is a language test, not an articulation test.
 
faire_jour said:
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i am talking about a test that measures language, not speech. But yes, the language is spoken english.

it has subsets that test: sentence structure, semantic relationships, expressive vocabulary, understanding spoken paragraphs, concepts and following directions, as well as several others.

so, it is a language test, not an articulation test.
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Look, FJ, they cannot measure "Language" as a constuct by limiting it to spoken English. The only thing they measure then is "spoken English". It is not a measurement of language, unless that language is spoken English. This really isn't that difficult to grasp.

What is the name of the testing instrument that you keep referring to? The way you are describing it, it is not even a standardized test. It is a performance test. Huge, huge difference.
 
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anytime a language test is given it has to be given in a particular language. I was saying that it is a language test as opposed to a speech or articulation test, such as the goldman-fristoe.
 
faire_jour said:
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anytime a language test is given it has to be given in a particular language. I was saying that it is a language test as opposed to a speech or articulation test, such as the goldman-fristoe.
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No, FJ, it is not a language test. It is a test for spoken English. And no, a test does not have to be in a specific language to test language skills and abilities. You are so very uninformed.

For the 5th time, what is the name of the test that you keep referring to?
 
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jillio said:
faire_jour said:
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i am talking about a test that measures language, not speech. But yes, the language is spoken english.

it has subsets that test: sentence structure, semantic relationships, expressive vocabulary, understanding spoken paragraphs, concepts and following directions, as well as several others.

so, it is a language test, not an articulation test.
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Look, FJ, they cannot measure "Language" as a constuct by limiting it to spoken English. The only thing they measure then is "spoken English". It is not a measurement of language, unless that language is spoken English. This really isn't that difficult to grasp.

What is the name of the testing instrument that you keep referring to? The way you are describing it, it is not even a standardized test. It is a performance test. Huge, huge difference.
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isn't the definition of a standardized test "a test that is administered and scored in a consistent or standard manner. Standardized tests are designed in such a way that the questions, conditions for administering, scoring procedures and interpretations are consistent and are administered and scored in a predetermined, standard manner".

so, any test in which the same test is given, in the same manner to all test takers is a standardized test.
 
faire_jour said:
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isn't the definition of a standardized test "a test that is administered and scored in a consistent or standard manner. Standardized tests are designed in such a way that the questions, conditions for administering, scoring procedures and interpretations are consistent and are administered and scored in a predetermined, standard manner".

so, any test in which the same test is given, in the same manner to all test takers is a standardized test.
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**jillio sighing deeply and dropping her head**

No, FJ. NO!

My God woman...learn a bit about what you are talking about.
 
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jillio said:
faire_jour said:
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anytime a language test is given it has to be given in a particular language. I was saying that it is a language test as opposed to a speech or articulation test, such as the goldman-fristoe.
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No, FJ, it is not a language test. It is a test for spoken English. And no, a test does not have to be in a specific language to test language skills and abilities. You are so very uninformed.

For the 5th time, what is the name of the test that you keep referring to?
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why should i tell you? The name of the test doesn't matter. There are plenty of tests that do the same thing and different professionals use different tests depending on age and other reasons.
 
The MSA...Maryland State Assessment is a standardized test and all the scores are sent to the dept of education (MSDe) and do you think they will take in account that English is the 2nd languae of any child? All they see if the child answers more incorrect questions, the child is not learning.

Any factors like family involvemnet, deafness, language exposure, and so are ARE NOT considered!

That is why standardized testing ARE not reliable!
 
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jillio said:
faire_jour said:
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isn't the definition of a standardized test "a test that is administered and scored in a consistent or standard manner. Standardized tests are designed in such a way that the questions, conditions for administering, scoring procedures and interpretations are consistent and are administered and scored in a predetermined, standard manner".

so, any test in which the same test is given, in the same manner to all test takers is a standardized test.
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**jillio sighing deeply and dropping her head**

No, FJ. NO!

My God woman...learn a bit about what you are talking about.
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that isn't a standardized test? Then what is it?
 
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Bottesini said:
A performance test used by one specific oral school?
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actually, as i said, it is normed on hearing kids, so it is used in many circumstanced beyond one oral school.
 
faire_jour said:
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why should i tell you? The name of the test doesn't matter. There are plenty of tests that do the same thing and different professionals use different tests depending on age and other reasons.
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Yes, the name of the test does matter. You have claimed that you know how the test has been normed and administered. You claimed that it is a standardized test, even though you appear to be very, very confused regarding what it is even measureing. You have to 1) be referring to a specific test or 2) trying to bullshit everyone as usual. Which is it?
 
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this journal says that the test is "a comprehensive assessment tool for the evaluation of LANGUAGE in school age populations".
 
faire_jour said:
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this journal says that the test is "a comprehensive assessment tool for the evaluation of LANGUAGE in school age populations".
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What journal? You just quoted something without a citation. Again, dishonest, dishonest, dishonest. Shame on you!


What children? The hearing children it was normed on? Well of course that is who it is talking about. And it is a valid way to test the construct of language in HEARING ENGLISH SPEAKING CHILDREN. But it has no validity outside those parameters.
 
jillio said:
Yes, the name of the test does matter. You have claimed that you know how the test has been normed and administered. You claimed that it is a standardized test, even though you appear to be very, very confused regarding what it is even measureing. You have to 1) be referring to a specific test or 2) trying to bullshit everyone as usual. Which is it?
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You were being really nice with giving her the #1 option.
 
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jillio said:
faire_jour said:
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why should i tell you? The name of the test doesn't matter. There are plenty of tests that do the same thing and different professionals use different tests depending on age and other reasons.
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Yes, the name of the test does matter. You have claimed that you know how the test has been normed and administered. You claimed that it is a standardized test, even though you appear to be very, very confused regarding what it is even measureing. You have to 1) be referring to a specific test or 2) trying to bullshit everyone as usual. Which is it?
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when i said that a particular test was given to my daughter, that is a specific test, but there are many tests that test similar things. My daughter's school uses different tests depending on the age of the student.
 
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