For JW (Jehovah's Witness) supporters

[christlovedeaf]

The Scripture Colossians 1:15-20 show that Jesus is the first born of creation.
Other scripture show that no one has seen god at any time John 1:18. We have facts in the bible of people seeing Jesus. Jesus at no time said that he was God.

The scripture at John 1:1 show the word god and God written differently. If you read verse 2 again you will see you left out a few words "This one in the beginning with god". It is better to read the whole chapter

In that book Jesus often referred to his father , not to himself as being God.

Umm, I think you need to study the whole passage. As in Col. 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation ( Gk] prototokos- refers to priority of position rather than of origin. Similar as in Psalm 89:27 " Also I (Father) will make Him (Jesus) my first born higher than the kings of the earth.". He is as eternal Son, holds the priority in relation to all creation, as vs 16 and 17, Christ was before all things and created all things and hold together.
And in John 1, says " In the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The SAME was in the begining with God {Father}. The rest of the verse talking about the Light and clarify that John the Baptist isn't the Light, but Jesus Himself is the Light as John the Baptist witnessed Jesus as the Light and God became flesh and noone knew Him, BECAUSE noone has seen God. You got that mixed up there. And if u notice again in Matthew1:23, if Jesus isn't God, then mean Jesus is not Immanuel. Immanuel means God with us. Again, clarify, He is not "a" god, He is THE God, part of God,The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. As of Immanuel described of Jesus in Isaiah 7:13-15; 9: 6-7; Micah 5:2) there is so much more as been shown on other thread I think it called Prophesied Fulfilled of Messiah. If Jesus isn't God, then He's not Yeshua or Jehovah even mean His name is not Jesus. Tho there is no debate as Jesus is a Good Teacher, and other idea of Jesus, but only debate is Jesus is God. Many have shortsighted the glimpse of God and the idea of God. That's the reason Jesus said, if you believe I am He, you will know the Father. While Jesus on earth He is called Son of Man and Son of God. As of Son of God also imply as God also.

 

[Reba]

The Scripture Colossians 1:15-20 show that Jesus is the first born of creation.

Colossians 1
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Jesus became the visible representation of the invisible God. Only God Himself can become His own image.

Jesus was the Creator ("For by him were all things created..."), not a creation. "Firstborn of every creature" doesn't refer to His physical birth on earth. It shows His priority. He was present before creation happened. He was already the Son of God before He was a baby born in Bethlehem.

Micah 1
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The child is born but the son is given. Jesus was the eternal Son who was given, in the form of a baby who was born.

Jesus is "the firstborn from the dead" because He is the first to have been resurrected from the dead in a glorified body. No one else has been resurrected in a glorified body.

Other scripture show that no one has seen god at any time John 1:18. We have facts in the bible of people seeing Jesus. Jesus at no time said that he was God.

John 14
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

The scripture at John 1:1 show the word god and God written differently. If you read verse 2 again you will see you left out a few words "This one in the beginning with god". It is better to read the whole chapter

I didn't leave anything out. But for your benefit, I will post it again.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Yes, I have read the whole chapter (more than once).

In that book Jesus often referred to his father , not to himself as being God.

Please be specific.

 

[Reba]

I remember that article. I was new to JW's at the time. There have been some updates on that. That is why is one of the reasons I like JW' because they admitt when they misunderstand and they correct it.

If Watchtower was teaching wrong and pagan beliefs several decades ago, then it was a false religion, according to it's own current teachings, right?

How can you feel secure in a religion that constantly changes its basic doctrines?

 

[800poundgorilla]

The Scripture Colossians 1:15-20 show that Jesus is the first born of creation.
Other scripture show that no one has seen god at any time John 1:18. We have facts in the bible of people seeing Jesus. Jesus at no time said that he was God.

The scripture at John 1:1 show the word god and God written differently. If you read verse 2 again you will see you left out a few words "This one in the beginning with god". It is better to read the whole chapter

In that book Jesus often referred to his father , not to himself as being God.

Are you trying to confuse us with the truth? Great point!!

 

[800poundgorilla]

Coming soon

Does the Bible teach that God is some three pronged three headed multiple personality? Coming soon, what the King James version really says on the matter. with NO lame commentary from people you do not know, just the scriptures and only the scriptures.

For those who would like just to hear what the Bible says

 

[christlovedeaf]

Colossians 1
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Jesus became the visible representation of the invisible God. Only God Himself can become His own image.

Jesus was the Creator ("For by him were all things created..."), not a creation. "Firstborn of every creature" doesn't refer to His physical birth on earth. It shows His priority. He was present before creation happened. He was already the Son of God before He was a baby born in Bethlehem.

Micah 1
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The child is born but the son is given. Jesus was the eternal Son who was given, in the form of a baby who was born.

Jesus is "the firstborn from the dead" because He is the first to have been resurrected from the dead in a glorified body. No one else has been resurrected in a glorified body.



John 14
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?



I didn't leave anything out. But for your benefit, I will post it again.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Yes, I have read the whole chapter (more than once).


Please be specific.

That's a good point and weight in the whole context with other scriptures in Bible who Christ is.

 

[christlovedeaf]

Are you trying to confuse us with the truth? Great point!!

Confuse on ur part, bec that's part of the context, not the whole and out of weight of the whole context of the message in the Bible. Great point, yeah, but missed the rest of the point of this scriptures.

 

[kurtcs]

Also, do you notice there's no windows at JW's church or temple (whatever that calls it..) That's VERY obviously cults!

 

[jsann138]

If Watchtower was teaching wrong and pagan beliefs several decades ago, then it was a false religion, according to it's own current teachings, right?

How can you feel secure in a religion that constantly changes its basic doctrines?

I am very thankful to be in company with people who are willing to admitt a wrong. That makes me fill very secure.

What bothers me is that people will accept a lie and call it truth. Example Santa Claus. Then in turn will critcize people who tell the truth.

 

[Reba]

I am very thankful to be in company with people who are willing to admitt a wrong. That makes me fill very secure.

People make mistakes. God doesn't. Religeous publications make mistakes. The Bible doesn't.

That's why Christians shouldn't put their spiritual faith in people or in publications. Trust God and the Bible only.

What bothers me is that people will accept a lie and call it truth. Example Santa Claus. Then in turn will critcize people who tell the truth.

Santa Claus? Our pastor preaches strong against Santa. What does that have to do with changing doctrines?

 

[SxyPorkie]

Oh Well... I am agnostic.... for past 4 yrs JW had been coming here all the times.. I was polite and told them not to come here... they still keep coming...
Then I refused to answer the doorbells... they still kept coming....

Then I become so rude.. I slammed the door on their faces...Yet they still coming here... grrrr... two weeks ago... i told them that they had been harassing me for fucking 4 yrs... next time they come here I will be with my bat threatening... I hope they will stop.

 

[netrox]

That's why Christians shouldn't put their spiritual faith in people or in publications. Trust God and the Bible only.

You really got to be kidding? The Bible has gone through several translations and some verses were added that were never mentioned in original manuscripts and you claim to have the right Bible? You admitted you have a pastor preaching. You're absorbing what he says and you follow that mentality. The concept of trinity did not exist during Jesus's era and you believe in that trinity doctrine which was based on the Church's teachings, not the Bible. You believe that the Old Testament predicted Jesus's coming when in fact, the OT never prophesized Jesus Christ. No matter how hard Christians try to claim it did, it simply did not. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah for good reasons.

You only think you know God but others will make the SAME claim. What makes you think you are so right? If a person says, "I trust Allah because Allah speaks to me," he is equally sincere as your belief that you know God. You claim that their doctrines are wrong but it's meaningless to them as they will say the same about yours.

 

[Maria]

You really got to be kidding? The Bible has gone through several translations and some verses were added that were never mentioned in original manuscripts and you claim to have the right Bible? You admitted you have a pastor preaching. You're absorbing what he says and you follow that mentality. The concept of trinity did not exist during Jesus's era and you believe in that trinity doctrine which was based on the Church's teachings, not the Bible. You believe that the Old Testament predicted Jesus's coming when in fact, the OT never prophesized Jesus Christ. No matter how hard Christians try to claim it did, it simply did not. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah for good reasons.

You only think you know God but others will make the SAME claim. What makes you think you are so right? If a person says, "I trust Allah because Allah speaks to me," he is equally sincere as your belief that you know God. You claim that their doctrines are wrong but it's meaningless to them as they will say the same about yours.

About your version here, I disagree with you. I support Reba's claim about trustin' God and the Bible only.

 

[christlovedeaf]

I have notice that claiming many different bible by changing it. No, it does not. Like I use CEV,bec mostly is accurate, bec its the same meaning of KJV. By saying that's why religious leaders oppose Jesus as a Messiah and crucified Him, its not new thru the OT, when Jesus gave a parable about how religious leaders kept killing the prophets that God has called them to confront religious leaders by living in sins and compromise the world's view and mixed religions. Like Jeremiah for example. Elijah. The whole point is not about religion itself, the whole message about salvation for people. If Jesus isn't the one, then whole religion is futile. Relgious leaders shortsighted the whole realm of God and has no glimpse of who God is and the meaning of one God and one Lord. Here's mathematical, Trinity equal one Lord, one God.

 

[Reba]

You really got to be kidding? The Bible has gone through several translations and some verses were added that were never mentioned in original manuscripts and you claim to have the right Bible? You admitted you have a pastor preaching. You're absorbing what he says and you follow that mentality. The concept of trinity did not exist during Jesus's era and you believe in that trinity doctrine which was based on the Church's teachings, not the Bible. You believe that the Old Testament predicted Jesus's coming when in fact, the OT never prophesized Jesus Christ. No matter how hard Christians try to claim it did, it simply did not. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah for good reasons.

You only think you know God but others will make the SAME claim. What makes you think you are so right? If a person says, "I trust Allah because Allah speaks to me," he is equally sincere as your belief that you know God. You claim that their doctrines are wrong but it's meaningless to them as they will say the same about yours.

I guess I don't need to reply to this post since you seem to be a mind reader. In almost every sentence you have told me what and how I think. Ha, ha! You better turn in your psychic union membership card. You haven't got a clue.

Seriously, before I reply, let me ask you something. (Yes, I'm asking a question, not assuming that I know your answer.) Do you believe that the Bible (in whatever translation you prefer) is the true word of God?

 

[netrox]

Do you believe that the Bible (in whatever translation you prefer) is the true word of God?

Absolutely no.

 

[christlovedeaf]

Absolutely no.

Do you think some translations are accurate?

 

[netrox]

Do you think some translations are accurate?

This link points out the difficulties when translating the Bible:

When Literal Translation of the Bible is Not Accurate

Many church organizations tend to translate that would support their beliefs.

 

[Boult]

You really got to be kidding? The Bible has gone through several translations and some verses were added that were never mentioned in original manuscripts and you claim to have the right Bible? You admitted you have a pastor preaching. You're absorbing what he says and you follow that mentality. The concept of trinity did not exist during Jesus's era and you believe in that trinity doctrine which was based on the Church's teachings, not the Bible. You believe that the Old Testament predicted Jesus's coming when in fact, the OT never prophesized Jesus Christ. No matter how hard Christians try to claim it did, it simply did not. The Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah for good reasons.

You only think you know God but others will make the SAME claim. What makes you think you are so right? If a person says, "I trust Allah because Allah speaks to me," he is equally sincere as your belief that you know God. You claim that their doctrines are wrong but it's meaningless to them as they will say the same about yours.

I guess I don't need to reply to this post since you seem to be a mind reader. In almost every sentence you have told me what and how I think. Ha, ha! You better turn in your psychic union membership card. You haven't got a clue.

Seriously, before I reply, let me ask you something. (Yes, I'm asking a question, not assuming that I know your answer.) Do you believe that the Bible (in whatever translation you prefer) is the true word of God?

Absolutely no.

Do you think some translations are accurate?

This link points out the difficulties when translating the Bible:

When Literal Translation of the Bible is Not Accurate

Many church organizations tend to translate that would support their beliefs.

and also that those chapters in the bible are chosen by the bishops during the time of Roman empire's Constantine because the churches in Roman Empires were disputing over this and that so they all got together and decide which should go into Bible and leave rejected books out. Bible is not one book. Bible consist many books. so chapters = books

You all should watch the show on History Channel "Banned from the Bible"
http://www.alldeaf.com/504724-post125.html
Banned from the Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also this site is good:
Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon
please read the "About the SAB" before you throw a hiss fits about this link;
SAB, Preface

as for those who may be asking for DVD of that show "Banned from the Bible" can get it from: Banned from the Bible DVD or whatever method you can get it.

and also you all have a chance to watch it on TV this month:
All Shows

 

[christlovedeaf]

This link points out the difficulties when translating the Bible:

When Literal Translation of the Bible is Not Accurate

Many church organizations tend to translate that would support their beliefs.

I know SOME translations have some errors. I know that NIV got quite a bit. I don't use NIV, bec doesn't seem right interpretation from KJV. I use NLT, I agree a lot with similar KJV, but I like CEV as I compare is most accurate than any other as far I read. Like Isaiah 1:4 mentioned from what u send described what it is similar to CEV, " Israel, you are a sinful nation loaded down with guilt. You are wicked and corrupt and have turned from the Lord, the Holy God of Israel." This is more sense into that. I know to many gave up so easily by saying whoever making the philosophy by taking advantage by taking out of context and many fall so easily prey by humanist theories. Yes, even some preachers doing that. "I quit going church bec...." I have heard so many making a convincing theories about lot of things. But honestly, I know obvious bec they have not read the Bible themselves. Like New Age quoting so many Bible verses and confused soo soo many people, bec it make sense and later found out, their lives been falling rock bottom. Its very dangerous to follow a person theories without studying the Bible in a whole with Holy Spirit aiding.