Fffeeeaaarrr!!!

[Jiro]

Finally A President Not Governed By Fear

James Joyner argues against a civilian trial for KSM:

[T]hese men are not citizens of the United States. Second, they’re accused war criminals. They simply should not be tried in U.S. civilian courts. Rather, they should either be held accountable in a Nuremberg-style international forum or treated as war criminals by a U.S. military tribunal under the mechanisms provided by Congress and approved by the Supreme Court.

Aside from the virtual certainty that the trial will devolve into a media circus, there’s an incredibly good chance that Mohammed and his comrades will go free. The fact that KSM was repeatedly waterboarded would seem to taint any subsequent evidence, including his own confession.

I think it's a potentially brilliant move. I do not believe for one moment that this case was brought in a civilian court without sufficient evidence to convict KSM of criminality to put him away for good. But what an open civilian case will also do - and it's why a war criminal like John Yoo is so apoplectic - is reveal the extent to which the brutal torture of KSM was unnecessary, and led to the government's inability to prosecute him to the full extent of the law.

It will be a civic lesson to America and the world. It will show the evil of terrorism and the futility and danger of torture. It will be a way in which Cheney's torture regime can be revealed in all its grotesque excess at the same time as KSM's vile religious extremism is exposed for its murderous nihilism. That all this will take place in New York - close to where the mass murder took place - is a particularly smart touch.

This will, then, be a Nuremberg-style event - because it will pit Qaeda barbarism against the cooling, calm and resolute nature of real Western justice in the clear light of history. But it does one more critical thing. It reveals a new confidence in ourselves and the Western way of life.

When you listen to the Fox News right speak about this, they reveal amazing levels of fear. They have been truly spooked by these men with long beards and chilling eyes. They are so scared of them they are willing to drop any and all legal principles that the West has historically used with respect to mass murderers. Their fear brought them to institute torture, and to engage in mass brutality against prisoners of war in every theater of combat in a manner that will tragically taint the honor of the US military for a very long time. It led them to establish Gitmo, to create for the world a reverse symbol of the Statue of Liberty, and imprint it on the minds and in the consciences of an entire generation of human beings, whose view of America will never be the same.

It made speedy prosecution of any of those who allegedly plotted and planned 9/11 impossible - and will make actual prosecution of any of them extremely hard. It turns out, then, that the primary (if not the only) thing we had to fear - was fear itself. It was our fear that gave al Qaeda so many propaganda victories.

And it is the refusal to be afraid that reflects the decision to bring this fanatic mass murderer back to the scene of the crime, to remind the world, all these years later, of why he is on trial, to restore a patriotic pride in the system we have, a system which it is al Qaeda's goal to destroy.

I believe this is the best symbolic answer to 9/11: a trial, with due process, after tempers have calmed somewhat, that exposes this evil for all it truly was. And also reveals the tragedy of an American government that lost its nerve and has now, under a new president, regained it.

 

[Jiro]

this person raises some good point!

 

[netrox]

"When you listen to the Fox News right speak about this, they reveal amazing levels of fear. They have been truly spooked by these men with long beards and chilling eyes."

VERY TRUE! I noticed Fox news has been doing nothing but trying to scare people!

 

[anakin]

this is too much for me to read at the moment omg.. @_@ feels good man.

i'll come back to this later.

 

[Jiro]

more fear story and more bigotry

McDonnell won’t disavow Robertson’s Islam remarks

CEDAR CREEK, Texas (CNN) – Virginia Gov.-elect Bob McDonnell on Wednesday would not disavow Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson’s recent claim that Islam is not a religion, but “a violent political system.”

McDonnell, though, stressed that he reached out to Muslims and visited mosques in Virginia throughout the governor’s race and will continue to do so when he takes office in January.

Muslim groups have called on McDonnell to condemn the remark because Robertson is a longtime political benefactor of the Republican, who won a blowout victory in this year’s closely-watched gubernatorial election.

McDonnell attended law school at CBN University (now Regent University), founded by Robertson, and has accepted thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from the televangelist along with appearing on his show, “The 700 Club.”

“I’ve got probably 15,000 donors to the campaign and I can’t stand and defend or support every comment that any donor might make,” McDonnell said in response to a question from CNN at the Republican Governors Association annual meeting near Austin. “I think people are entitled under the First Amendment to express whatever opinions that they may have, but I can only say that as governor of Virginia, I intend to have an inclusive administration where we bring people across the political and religious system to help us govern.”

Robertson made the comments on his show on November 9 after the shooting rampage at the Fort Hood Army post in Texas. The suspected gunman, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, is a Muslim who was critical of U.S. military activity in Iraq and Afghanistan

“Islam is a violent, I was going to say religion, but it's not a religion. It's a political system,” Robertson said. “It's a violent political system bent on the overthrow of the governments of the world and world domination. That is the ultimate aim.”

When asked if he believes Islam is “a violent political system,” McDonnell said no, but he did not condemn Robertson.

“I think that there are people in various religions that do some violent things and they should be judged according to their acts,” he explained. “But I have believed that there are people of all the great religions, that can be enormously helpful in our multicultural Virginia to help them to benefit us in the state.”

 

[Jiro]

yup more FFFFFFEEEEEEEAAAAAAARRRRRRRR

Poll: Support Seen for Patriot Act - Most Back Extending the Patriot Act, But Concerns About Intrusions Grow

Against a backdrop of heightened public concern about government intrusions, six in 10 Americans favor extending the Patriot Act, but majorities oppose expanding it by adding new FBI powers to issue subpoenas and access U.S. mail.

Fifty-nine percent in an ABC News/Washington Post poll favor continuing the additional investigative authority in terrorism investigations that was granted to the FBI starting in 2001. President Bush urged such an extension of the Patriot Act today.

But there are some compunctions behind that support: Just half the public now says the United States government is doing enough to protect the rights of Americans citizens as it conducts the war on terrorism, down from 61 percent to 74 percent in polls in 2002 and 2003. That's not unexpected; most Americans in the past have accepted possible privacy intrusions at times of national crisis -- but not on an unlimited or permanent basis. As the immediacy of the sense of crisis wanes, interest in privacy rights can reassert itself.

Patriot Act
Yes No
Extend Patriot Act 59% 39%
Require postal service to let FBI copy outside of envelopes? 44 54
Allow FBI to demand records without a judge's approval? 31 68

Higher concern about privacy relates to opposition to two expansions of the Patriot Act approved Tuesday by the Senate Intelligence Committee. Sixty-eight percent oppose allowing the FBI to demand records without first getting a judge or prosecutor's approval, and 54 percent oppose requiring the Postal Service to let FBI agents copy information from the outside of envelopes in the mail.

Another concern about rights involves treatment of prisoners at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Sixty percent of Americans express confidence that the United States is adequately protecting the rights of those prisoners -- but many fewer, just 23 percent, are "very" confident about it. Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., this week suggested closing Guantanamo, and Bush yesterday did not rule it out, saying the administration is exploring alternatives.

Groups

Extending the Patriot Act gets broad support from Republicans and a narrow majority of independents, but it's opposed by just over half of Democrats. While six in 10 Republicans want the bill expanded to allow the FBI to copy the outside of envelopes sent through U.S. mail, six in 10 Democrats and independents oppose the move.

Majorities regardless of party affiliation oppose letting the FBI demand records without prior judicial approval.

Percentages that Support ...
Democrats Republicans Independents
Extending Patriot Act? 43% 80% 54%
Expanding record searches 17 42 32
Copying outside of U.S. Mail 36 60 37

There are similar ideological divisions on extending and expanding the Patriot Act, with conservatives most likely to support continuing and augmenting the law.

Concerns about government intrusions are strongly related to views on extending the Patriot Act or expanding its terms. Among the 50 percent who think the government is doing enough now to protect privacy rights, 76 percent favor extending the act. But among the other half, who think rights are not being protected adequately, support for extending the law drops to 42 percent. These people also are much less apt to support expanding FBI authority with new provisions in the law.

Methodology

This ABC News/Washington Post poll was conducted by telephone June 2-5, 2005, among a random national sample of 1,002 adults. The results have a three-point error margin. Sampling, data collection and tabulation by TNS of Horsham, Pa.

 

[VamPyroX]

I do agree with the fact that criminals that are to be tried for war crimes... should be treated in international court instead of country court where there's a lot of bias.

 

[Bramus]

I do agree with the fact that criminals that are to be tried for war crimes... should be treated in international court instead of country court where there's a lot of bias.

I agree completely

 

[darkdog]

Stupiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid!!! This decision reeks of stupid as far as the eye can see. This is a horrible thing for due process. They're going to continue holding the guy even if he's acquitted. What kind of precedent does that set for normal criminals? And then there's the discovery process where he will have access to our intel. You don't even want to get my brother, a military expert and former intel agent, started on this.

 

[darkdog]

More on the culture of stupidity prevailing as of late. Here's an exchange between Senator Herb Kohl and Eric Holder, our genius Attorney General.

Kohl: But taking into account that you never know what happens when you walk into a court of law, in the event that for whatever reason they do not get convicted, what would be your next step? I'm sure you must have talked about it.

Holder: What I told the prosecutors and what I will tell you and what I spoke to them about is that failure is not an option. Failure is not an option. This--these are cases that have to be won. I don't expect that we will have a contrary result.

And some commentary from the Wall Street Journal:

Obama's and Holder's assurances that KSM will be convicted (and, according to the president, "put to death") make a mockery of due process. Nothing is more fundamental to America's criminal justice system than the presumption of innocence, and if terrorist detainees are to be treated as criminal defendants, they are entitled to that presumption.

For the sake of political expediency, Obama and Holder are refusing even to make a pretense of respect for due process. If KSM & Co. are convicted and put to death, America's critics and enemies will point to Obama and Holder's assurances in arguing that the defendants were subjected to sham justice. Nice work restoring America's moral standing, Mr. President.

Clap... Clap... Clap...

'Failure Is Not an Option' - WSJ.com