Equality

Jolie77

Jolie77

New Member
Premium Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
8,727
Reaction score
9
I had a provoking thought and wanted to ask you guys about this.

If we are supposed to be all equal as humans, and the purpose of equality is to NOT single out any group for any reason. What is the purpose of minority celebrations - i.e. Black History Month, or Disney's "Gay Day"?

IMO - There is no reason to judge someone on the basis of their sexual orientation, age, sex, color, national origin or religious affiliation. If a group of people has a formal agenda, however, they have put forth a platform that is open to criticism in a free society. Not everyone who shares a particular trait belongs to a group that embraces a platform, however.

The issue becomes, how do we treat people? The answer is quite simple - we treat them as individual human beings, fully vested as equal to ourselves under the law. If a group of people wishes to have special notice for whatever reason, that does not entitle that group to more rights than anyone else has.

I think some groups have focused on making others aware of their existence and their cultural history, hence we have Black History Month and so on. The awareness itself is a good thing, as it validates the group as being composed of humans who, like any other group of people, have struggled, triumphed and lived to tell the story. The same thing goes for Women's suffrage, Gay awareness, Deaf Awareness, celebrations of various heritages, so and on. All of our human stories are worth knowing, sharing and learning from. A person or a group has every right to put forth its story and its goals, but that does not make their story any more important than that of any other person or group of people.

No one wants to be marginalized or disenfranchised. When people feel that they are not given full value as humans, one tool they can use to correct that injustice is gathering together with like-minded people to make their voice a little louder. It's a feeling of belonging somewhere, when one feels that the larger social dynamic has overlooked or deprived them of their full rights as humans.
 
This is a thought provoking post, Jolie. I agree that people should be treated as individuals. However, when individuals have experienced discrimination and inequality historically, it is the recognition of group promotion of individual rights that sets the record straight. Once the power and cohesiveness of the group is recognized, it is more difficult to discriminate against the individual that is a member of that group. The group serves as the collective voice for the individual. It is easy to discount the experience of one person. It is far more difficult to discount the collective experience of 100 people.
 
Jolie77 said:
I had a provoking thought and wanted to ask you guys about this.

If we are supposed to be all equal as humans, and the purpose of equality is to NOT single out any group for any reason. What is the purpose of minority celebrations - i.e. Black History Month, or Disney's "Gay Day"?
Click to expand...


All colors are equal. They are the different reflections of the same light. Their difference doesn't come from their inequality nor comes from their essence. Its how they reflect. Human are same too, its just reflected and perceived different.

You can celebrate all colors if celebration is what you are doing. Pick one or bring all of them together, paint your world the way you want to. You can do it if you know they are the reflections of the same light.

But the ones who can't see the difference is in reflection, not in the essence , how are they going to celebrate? If they see conflict, and they are in conflict, what are they going to celebrate?

What is the purpose of their celebration? Dont look what they say they celebrate, but look what they really are celebrating, and you will have the answer.

Hermes
 
Last edited:
Excellent thread idea.
Jolie77 said:
If we are supposed to be all equal as humans, and the purpose of equality is to NOT single out any group for any reason. What is the purpose of minority celebrations - i.e. Black History Month, or Disney's "Gay Day"?
Click to expand...
I consider these two separate but related things. For Black History Month, the purpose is to acknowledge that there is a different culture there, that African-Americans do have a different cultural history and experience, and it deserves to be celebrated. I think Black History Month is about educating OTHER people about their culture.

Gay Days at Disney (which are not official!) are a different thing though. For that it is about celebrating who we are, amongst ourselves. It's part of being with "the tribe" - being around people who are like yourself. I have been on a gay cruise and people are always asking why anybody would want to do that. Why not just take a regular cruise, especially since gay cruises cost twice as much? It's about the community. You want to be with people like you and know that nobody there is going to look at you funny if you hold hands with your partner. You want to celebrate your group WITH your group.

You also talked about equality meaning that all humans are equal. I think that it is important to recognize that we are different, but that we are all equally valid. My experience as a gay white woman is not the same experience as a straight black man. But we are both humans and we should both be valued. We don't have to ignore our differences, we should acknowledge they are there, and respect them - but not be treated any differently because of them.

Jolie77 said:
The issue becomes, how do we treat people? The answer is quite simple - we treat them as individual human beings, fully vested as equal to ourselves under the law. If a group of people wishes to have special notice for whatever reason, that does not entitle that group to more rights than anyone else has.
Click to expand...
The problem is that there isn't equality. There SHOULD be, I agree with you 100%, we should all have equal rights. But it doesn't work that way. Women still make less than men in the workplace. Gays still can't get married. Non-whites still face discrimination based on race. In an ideal world, everybody would be totally equal, fully respected, celebrating our differences but not dwelling on them.

As for groups asking for special rights, the cry is usually for "Equal Rights Not Special Rights" - nobody is saying that women should be making more than men just because they have historically made less. Some African-Americans support reparations, and that is requesting a special right based on history. I agree that African-Americans are still economically disadvantaged because they were slaves long ago, but how can a few thousand dollars per person make up for that? Is it going to change their situation in life, will they suddenly become equally educated to white people and have an equally nice house? No, of course not.

But celebrating a group isn't granting them special rights. Look at the hundreds of gay pride celebrations that are recognized by their local governments, and they still don't get to get married. Every year, the local government issues a proclamation of Gay Pride Week/Month/etc in many locations around the world. The government is saying "it's okay to be gay, we acknowledge that you are here and different from us and deserve recognition." But they're not suddenly offering any special rights except a piece of paper to hang on the wall.

Jolie77 said:
No one wants to be marginalized or disenfranchised. When people feel that they are not given full value as humans, one tool they can use to correct that injustice is gathering together with like-minded people to make their voice a little louder. It's a feeling of belonging somewhere, when one feels that the larger social dynamic has overlooked or deprived them of their full rights as humans.
Click to expand...
I have been studying Gandhian thought a lot lately. It's very similar to what you are saying. For example, back in the early 20th century, Indians living in South Africa were treated terribly by the white people in charge there. Gandhi got a bunch of Indian people to unite and say "we don't accept this treatment anymore!" And by banding together, they were far more effective than any one person could have been.

"Never doubt that a small, committed group of citizens can change the world - indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
--Margaret Mead
 
I am for a diverse society. Where differantly able people, can live together with other minority groups without stamping on other people's rights to be be themselves.

I don't think that we will ever achieve total equality though. I'm not even sure if such a thing exists. As sometimes right's conflict. Such as my right to have my dog with me conflicts with the taxi driver's 'rights' to keep his taxi dog free according to his faith.

Nobody's rights should infringe on others but it does happen since not all persicuted parties can speak up for themselves. Animals and small children are particularly vunerable in this respect.

You will know when you are facing serious persicution if people compaire you with germs or parachites or say you don't have feelings. This has been the case for jews and slaves in the past and still holds true for animals and babies in the womb now.

Sometimes we just have to learn when to move on. As a disabled person who also happens to be bisexual and female I can tell you that being disabled has caused the most amount of discrimination, being bi when you fall for another woman can be tough going too. I can't think of being discriminated against for being female. Yet advocates for 'women's rights' tend to be more vocal. And less supportive of sisters who don't share their particular view point.

Victims of abuse by women tend to have a really tough time being believed. In some case domestic violence between two women can be even harder because the victims sometimes don't want to bring out more negative homosexual steriotyping. So they don't speak out about it all. I also heard a case of a girl who was sexually abused by her mother but her therapist didn't believe her because the perpetrator was female.

There are some groups that advocate men's rights too now.
 
Eto - - your post pretty much sums everything up. I feel that communities of people who celebrate their uniquiness (sp), are celebrating their culture. I feel, in my opinion, America has not right to celebrate Thanksgiving the way they do. Basically, white man came. White man killed. White man stole. I mean, why are we celebrating? We should be praying for fogiveness.
 
Thank you guys for responding to the thread. There were a lot of provoking thoughts in this thread as well. It was a good read!

I think we all are in agreement that equality is much needed. I am not saying that I am discounting the idea of a cultural heritage to be celebrated. They should be celebrated for their diversity, ethnicity, sexual orientation, so and on.

Racism and stereotypes still very much exists to this day. That is why I also was seeking the answer or the concept of why would we want equality but yet we also do celebrate or promote our own kind? No, I know every group has their right to do it and they should.

To look at it as an individual may be one thing but to look at it as a whole is another thing. In order for that, To be different is as good as it is hence the diversity but we also do want to be equal in each other's eyes while acknowledging the difference and with that, by respecting it too.

I just read an article and thought it was a very good read -- Essays.cc - Equality In America
 
Jolie77 said:
Thank you guys for responding to the thread. There were a lot of provoking thoughts in this thread as well. It was a good read!

I think we all are in agreement that equality is much needed. I am not saying that I am discounting the idea of a cultural heritage to be celebrated. They should be celebrated for their diversity, ethnicity, sexual orientation, so and on.

Racism and stereotypes still very much exists to this day. That is why I also was seeking the answer or the concept of why would we want equality but yet we also do celebrate or promote our own kind? No, I know every group has their right to do it and they should.

To look at it as an individual may be one thing but to look at it as a whole is another thing. In order for that, To be different is as good as it is hence the diversity but we also do want to be equal in each other's eyes while acknowledging the difference and with that, by respecting it too.

I just read an article and thought it was a very good read -- Essays.cc - Equality In America
Click to expand...

That was an interesting read, Jolie. I believe that we should maintain deiversity while promoting equality. Different never has to mean inferior.
 
Etoile said:
I think Black History Month is about educating OTHER people about their culture.

So who's doing the teaching? The blacks? Hmmm, I got black friends and they were mum about the month, grrr.
Anyway, Jolie, good thread. :)
Click to expand...
 
jillio said:
That was an interesting read, Jolie. I believe that we should maintain deiversity while promoting equality. Different never has to mean inferior.
Click to expand...

With that said, I wholeheartedly agree.

My purpose is, Why single it out when another one thinks they can be better than another? That shouldn't be happening because being diverse is awesome. I'm not to single out any kind of diversity that is out there but It is something that I've been seeing - for instance, If something out of a controversial issue comes in play, they usually put up the "race" card.

I think we all should look past the race in order to understand each other's heritage or it's own diversity.
 
Jolie77 said:
With that said, I wholeheartedly agree.

My purpose is, Why single it out when another one thinks they can be better than another? That shouldn't be happening because being diverse is awesome. I'm not to single out any kind of diversity that is out there but It is something that I've been seeing - for instance, If something out of a controversial issue comes in play, they usually put up the "race" card.

I think we all should look past the race in order to understand each other's heritage or it's own diversity.
Click to expand...

This world would be a much better and more loving place if we could all do that.
 
Jolie77 said:
I think we all should look past the race in order to understand each other's heritage or it's own diversity.
Click to expand...

I remember the magazine "People" (I believe) featured a Deaf gang in NYC. They are all different races but they said deaf first, race second. They did look past each other's race in this case. That was back in 1980's. Too bad it is not uniform around the world.
 
Personally I wish we would just stop with the "special groups" concept...I think it promotes division and not unity. I know that is not the "politically correct" thing to say, but it is my brutal honest opinion.
 
Buffalo said:
I remember the magazine "People" (I believe) featured a Deaf gang in NYC. They are all different races but they said deaf first, race second. They did look past each other's race in this case. That was back in 1980's. Too bad it is not uniform around the world.
Click to expand...

I agree, Unfortunately it will always be like this from the time in the past to the time in the future. What I am trying to say is, I think in today's term, a lot of things has became acceptable for the society but it is slowly changing. There is still a long way to go before all cultures, heritages, ethnicity, disabilities, etc are able to be uniformed.

deafbajagal said:
Personally I wish we would just stop with the "special groups" concept...I think it promotes division and not unity. I know that is not the "politically correct" thing to say, but it is my brutal honest opinion.
Click to expand...

I do appreciate your brutal honest opinion but that also has made me come up with a question. How can we be diverse but yet, still remain equal in order to enforce the unity?
 
jillio said:
This is a thought provoking post, Jolie. I agree that people should be treated as individuals. However, when individuals have experienced discrimination and inequality historically, it is the recognition of group promotion of individual rights that sets the record straight. Once the power and cohesiveness of the group is recognized, it is more difficult to discriminate against the individual that is a member of that group. The group serves as the collective voice for the individual. It is easy to discount the experience of one person. It is far more difficult to discount the collective experience of 100 people.
Click to expand...

That is why they banded together to fight against whatever is wrong. When there is no wrong to fight against for a long time, the group will eventually disbanded.
 
Nothing wrong with celebrating diversity...but the truth is, not all of us are really "allowed." Where's the Straight Folks parades? What would happen if we had a holiday designated to celebrate white people? etc, etc. Where does it all end? Why celebrate diversity...when we can celebrate what common grounds we have. When we can celebrate the goodness that ALL people of all backgrounds have.

Just my opinion. ;)
 
Yup, deafbajagal, true equality is an ever-elusive goal and that's sad....
 
Back
Top