English lessons

Buffalo said:
I would love to see the language problems nipped in the first grade not in college. I recalled reading online about a person who teaches deaf kids and she admitted that she let their mistakes slide. I really don't like that person as she did no favor for the deaf kids.

Yes, the love of reading books could help their English in a big way. Their families gotta buy the kids books and be a role model by reading books as well. Many of my family members (especially the females) love to read and so do I.
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Yep, that's true.

When I was in high school, we had to take a special test every year to determine where we placed in knowledge. This was just for all deaf students. Hearing students took a similar test every 2 years.

During one testing session, I was in the deaf-only room with a couple other deaf students.

While I was doing my test, another deaf student (older than me) had a question and asked the teacher. The teacher helped him by giving him indirect answers on the blackboard. If the student still didn't understand, she would sometimes give them the answers bluntly. Of course, the tests that the students were taking were large-print and elementary level.

Also, some students who were mainstreamed... still passed no matter what. If they failed a class, they still got a passing grade and a note of "Grades Modified" on their report cards. :roll:
 
teachers and schools that pass failing students just because of their disabilities are not doing anyone a favor. what happens when they want to become a scientist or an engineer or an architect or a doctor, etc ? what do they say when they show up at work and don't know what they're doing? "err....sorry? i think that was on the test i failed...but i got my degree anyway, so....yeah..."?
 
oh, and did i mention english lessons?

free english lessons for everyone?

hearie at your disposal. please feel free to use me and my services like a two-bit whore. EXCEPT I WON'T CHARGE YOU TWO BITS!

NOT EVEN ONE BIT!

ZERO BITS!

IT'S FREE!

ahem. well then.

:ty:
 
shel90 said:
I really wish I could remember everything. My mom started reading to me when I was a baby despite the doctor's advices of not bothering to read because I wouldnt be able to hear her. She ignored them and continued so I guess by seeing that alone, I saw the value in books. Once I started learning how to read, I remember not being able to get enough of it. I read EVERYTHING...back of cereal boxes, nasty words on the bathroom walls, comics, and easy books. From then on, as I got older, my literacy skills got stronger. It also helped that I loved to write stories as a kid. Not everyone loves to read and write but for deaf people that is a double disadvantage if they dont enjoy it. If that girl really wants to get an education, she is going to need to start enjoying reading and writing. I would suggest she starts writing journals daily just for fun and then you can sit with her to modify her grammar so she can learn what her common mistakes are.


I am sure there were some reading strategies that my teachers taught me in school but I cant remember due to being so young at the time.
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For the first 4 years of my life Oral method were used and my mother read a book to me without speaking the words because pictures were there. And it also helps that the bookworm gene is included in my gene as well as my mother, her father and my siblings. I grew up around books, but I must admit that once I started learning sign language I started to try and learn how to read properly.

At school I was probably the only bookworm, and the deaf kids couldn't understand what appeal I found in reading.

August, just do your best if she comes back to you for tutoring. She should be reading, like you said, all the time regardless of reading materials used, and watching CC on TV or DVDs can really help.
 
"btw, i only meant to say that from what i've observed so far, i haven't seen any deaf people who were totally fluent in english. but congratulations, knowing 4 languages is a hell of a thing. which others do you know?" Quoting August

I am fluent in English. My father taught me English skills, school did not. I see lots of people here who are fluent in English.
 
I am glad you are looking into this, and I can tell you I identify with these problems.

I spent about 1/4 of my life so far (since birth) never hearing a single sound.
I have still not been able to understand words, even though I can hear some things with CI now. There had been times I thought I was beginning to understand a few things, but something always seems to happen to make it confusing and pretty much undo that... (I can't really explain it, because I don't know how...)

I was introduced to ASL very young, while I still had decent vision... I don't really remember it now, and it seems I have forgotten a lot that I had learned... Basically gave up on ASL due to vision problems (coupled with ongoing physical problems...)

So I have pretty much learned written English based on the ASL foundation of what little I learned at around 5 years old... and after that, it was just exposure, 'immersion', and just practice practice practice.

I still have a hard time grasping 'nuances', idioms, sarcasm... 'creative' and abstract things. So at times I think I can come across as 'robotic' or insensitive... but I just don't always know implied meanings, from others or from myself. I don't really have the advantage of another form of language to gain these traits, (aside from my ASL base which is almost not used anymore, mainly use fingerspelling for -English-, which makes it redundant as a learning tool now) only remembering examples and technical structure.

Most people learn these things simply by being exposed to it and picking up the usage... but it is hard to do it in a 'technical' way, I feel, because there are many unwritten rules, and things that seem to just be 'a given' or 'common sense' (which is not all that common...)
 
A section to answer English questions and proofread -- not just one person, but several in open forum -- was proposed several months ago but it died for lack of interest.

It's still a good idea. Lots of "rules" aren't really rules. For instance, the rules to never begin a sentence with "And" and never end a sentence with a preposition. They aren't official rules in the UK or US and never have been. So an English section could help with the many false rules.

Another area for help is bad habits. For instance, so many write, "Does anyone need help with their math?" "Anyone" and "their" mix like oil and water. Another bad habit is writing "Sara went to the movie with Phil and I." That's poor grammar and a forum of members with skills in writing could tell why.

Yes, lots of reading is important to learning English writing skills, especially for those raised with ASL. Discussing and learning "why" is a good way to retain the knowledge of what we read and turn it into good writing.
 
Chase said:
Another bad habit is writing "Sara went to the movie with Phil and I." That's poor grammar and a forum of members with skills in writing could tell why.
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Hehe, yeah. As an aside... there is an easy trick to remember which is correct in sentences like this.

When you have something like "Phil and I", imagine removing 'Phil and'.

So you would have:
"Sara went to the movie with I"
Nope.
But:
"Sara went to the movie with me"
"Sara went to the movie with Phil and me."

You can do this the other way, too.
"I went to the movie with Phil"
"Sara and I went to the movie with Phil"
"Phil and I went to the move with Sara"
"Sara, Phil, and I went to the movie"

So in the above cases, it is I (I went to the movie)
 
jenni-m said:
Hehe, yeah. As an aside... there is an easy trick to remember which is correct in sentences like this.

When you have something like "Phil and I", imagine removing 'Phil and'.
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That's good mnemonics . . . tricks to help us remember. Often they're more helpful than a "rule."

I have one for remembering how to spell receive. Think of the "c" as cleavage. Cleavage has two round shapes on either side. So it's never recieve. Ha ha ha, sticks in a boy's mind.
 
August said:
hmph.

i tried.

:dunno2:
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Oops, sorry if we derailed your thread...
If you want to help people with English, and get information from those who have problems with it, you might want to start over (just a suggestion) because I don't think anyone who actually does have problems is going to get far enough in the thread to see these points (even I got off track and did not read the whole thread, I skimmed)

Edit:
And I don't want this to sound like you have been ignored, because you haven't. Some times people just get in a hurry I think (me definitely) but your first post is definitely worth talking about... I just don't have much to contribute to it, and kind of babbled a little, I guess,
 
August said:
but Chase just said it's already been tried and failed miserably.
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Oh, yeah. I missed that. See? Skimming haha.
I hate to do it, but I have to try and preserve my eyes... and my braille display is only 8 cell, which makes it very tedious to read something long for just casual reading of an entire thread... (it's ok for books and texts, where I feel comfortable with pausing and picking up later, but I don't like it for conversational threads)

Anyway... probably unnecessary information, but I am a little bored. :D
 
August said:
but Chase just said it's already been tried and failed miserably.
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August, generally, I think the reason is those who really do need the kind of help you're talking about are probably those who don't go into forums such as this one.
 
I also said it's a good idea.

Tousi is right about the use of such a section being a low priority for most members, but it could be a real help for those members (or their kids) writing papers for many high school and college classes (not just English).

I was very surprised at the resistance a few months ago. It was like, "Yeah, I'm ignorant about spelling, punctuation, and grammar, but that's the way I am and that's the way I'm gonna stay!"

Another reason cited for not wanting a writing helps section was that other members would make fun of poor writers. That excuse was the screwiest of all.
 
Chase said:
I also said it's a good idea.

Tousi is right about the use of such a section being a low priority for most members, but it could be a real help for those members (or their kids) writing papers for many high school and college classes (not just English).

I was very surprised at the resistance a few months ago. It was like, "Yeah, I'm ignorant about spelling, punctuation, and grammar, but that's the way I am and that's the way I'm gonna stay!"

Another reason cited for not wanting a writing helps section was that other members would make fun of poor writers. That excuse was the screwiest of all.
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Yes.

What I am about to say should be in NO WAY construed as an offense or attack to anyone here. I have no idea who will read this and what their habits are, so I can not possibly aim this at anyone, knowingly.

Anyway. I think some people wear 'lack of education' like a badge... "Those people aren't going to get me, I am fine just the way I am, they can't force me to change!" But the thing is, learning more things is almost always helpful in some way. People don't have to change, or being conformist... but more knowledge empowers you. How one -uses- that knowledge is entirely up to that individual.

This isn't a 'deaf' thing either. It happens everywhere.
 
well Chase, you're a mod or whatever.

what harm could it do to just make the subforum anyway? no one's going to lose an arm if it isn't a big hit or anything.

:dunno2:
 
August said:
well Chase, you're a mod or whatever.

what harm could it do to just make the subforum anyway? no one's going to lose an arm if it isn't a big hit or anything.

:dunno2:
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Actully, I'm a whatever, just like you. But even moderators can't create new sections.

When the issue was raised, I also saw no harm in making the subform, and that's still my thinking. The positive comments in the poll that was taken greatly outnumbered the negative, but the forum was forgotten as other drama came along. Apathy wins again.
 
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