Educational Method post CI

faire_jour said:
I had an audiologist tell me that if my daughter (she was only moderatly hoh at the time) didn't learn to speak it was because I was a lazy mom! That is far from true. When we originally asked about the implant the doctor told us no. She said that "we should only be implanting children who will become totally oral, and it is clear that you have chosen a different path for your child" and then she gave a nasty look to my daughter, (happily not understanding what that woman said).
It has always been my experience that the ASL community has no problem with Deaf children learning to use oral skills but the Oral community has a huge problem with deaf kids learning ASL.
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:gpost::gpost:

That audiologist is extremely unethical, IMO, and the doctor should be brought before peer review for making statements like that. They are there to provide care, not to impose their personal value system on their patients.

I agree with you....the ASL community seeks to add to the deaf child's experience; the oral community seeks to restrict it.
 
faire_jour said:
They just say that in order for the implant to work the way it should, she needs to be in an all talking/listening enviroment. The first audiologist told me that we should mainstream her for kindergarten (no terp I assume) and then we could look at an implant. WHAT?!? She has maybe 10 spoken words and failed the listening test you just gave her and you want to mainstream her??? Obviously she can't hear well or we wouldn't be looking at the CI! The insanity never ceases to amaze me.
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They appear to be more concerned with the functioning of the implant than the development and well being of the child underneath the implant.
 
faire_jour said:
So now we are seeing a different doctor. I am hoping that he will be more understanding of our philosophy, but honestly, I doubt it.
The doctors don't like our bi-bi school and have told us that in order for her to get the CI we will have to move her to the TC program, where the use SimCom...ugh. Well, we told them ok because, little did they know, they are getting rid of TC and will merge with us! HA!
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That makes me so angry. They cannot deny you the surgical procedure based on your communication choice. It is illegal. A physician has no right to mandate communication choice or educational decisions. Nor do they have the expertise to do so.
 
faire_jour said:
They just say that in order for the implant to work the way it should, she needs to be in an all talking/listening enviroment. The first audiologist told me that we should mainstream her for kindergarten (no terp I assume) and then we could look at an implant. WHAT?!? She has maybe 10 spoken words and failed the listening test you just gave her and you want to mainstream her??? Obviously she can't hear well or we wouldn't be looking at the CI! The insanity never ceases to amaze me.
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This is why I have a very strong disain for the oral community and those so-called specialists.
 
The worst part is that when your child is first diagnoised, they pretend to be pro-signing, but further you get down the path the more you hear things like "start dropping signs" and "sign is for the transition before they learn to hear" or "don't sign and see what she understands". They are comfortable with parents signing as long as it isn't permanante. They are ok with what I call "Signing Time" ASL, but as soon as the family has functional language, then it isn't ok. We were labeled by the school and professionals as freaks because we chose ASL as our family's language. We went to a conference for parents of deaf children age 3 and under, and they asked the audience "If you are doing oral only, please stand up." about 1/3 of the parents stood. "If you are doing total communication, signing and speaking at the same time, please stand up", the other 2/3 stood up. Then they asked "If you are focused on ASL as the primary language, please stand", my husband and I were the only ones who stood.
 
faire_jour said:
The worst part is that when your child is first diagnoised, they pretend to be pro-signing, but further you get down the path the more you hear things like "start dropping signs" and "sign is for the transition before they learn to hear" or "don't sign and see what she understands". They are comfortable with parents signing as long as it isn't permanante. They are ok with what I call "Signing Time" ASL, but as soon as the family has functional language, then it isn't ok. We were labeled by the school and professionals as freaks because we chose ASL as our family's language. We went to a conference for parents of deaf children age 3 and under, and they asked the audience "If you are doing oral only, please stand up." about 1/3 of the parents stood. "If you are doing total communication, signing and speaking at the same time, please stand up", the other 2/3 stood up. Then they asked "If you are focused on ASL as the primary language, please stand", my husband and I were the only ones who stood.
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My god! What's wrong with these parents???

Speaking and signing at the same time is the worst thing anyone can do cuz both languages become compromised and the children arent getting full models of either languages.

I would love to go to one of these meetings and just tell these parents about my life growing up in such an extremely restrictive environment both at home and in the educational setting.
 
It wouldn't help. We have these conferences, and each year they have a panel of Deaf adults, and every year they talk about their lives growing up. They all have the same story: hearing parents who tried to make them oral, then at some point they learn about ASL and the Deaf community, they rebel from their family and learn ASL, their family doesn't and they drift apart.
It never changes anything.
 
faire_jour said:
It wouldn't help. We have these conferences, and each year they have a panel of Deaf adults, and every year they talk about their lives growing up. They all have the same story: hearing parents who tried to make them oral, then at some point they learn about ASL and the Deaf community, they rebel from their family and learn ASL, their family doesn't and they drift apart.
It never changes anything.
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Same here two years ago when I first registered with AllDeaf and started sharing my experiences growing up oral only and how finding ASL and Deaf community saved my life, I was attacked by the oralists. I was called all kinds of names...anti-CI, close-minded, unwillingness to change, and so forth.

U are right, it probably wouldnt change anything and history will just continue to repeat itself.
 
faire_jour said:
It wouldn't help. We have these conferences, and each year they have a panel of Deaf adults, and every year they talk about their lives growing up. They all have the same story: hearing parents who tried to make them oral, then at some point they learn about ASL and the Deaf community, they rebel from their family and learn ASL, their family doesn't and they drift apart.
It never changes anything.
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What's the purpose of a panel of Deaf adults then?
 
faire_jour said:
The worst part is that when your child is first diagnoised, they pretend to be pro-signing, but further you get down the path the more you hear things like "start dropping signs" and "sign is for the transition before they learn to hear" or "don't sign and see what she understands". They are comfortable with parents signing as long as it isn't permanante. They are ok with what I call "Signing Time" ASL, but as soon as the family has functional language, then it isn't ok. We were labeled by the school and professionals as freaks because we chose ASL as our family's language. We went to a conference for parents of deaf children age 3 and under, and they asked the audience "If you are doing oral only, please stand up." about 1/3 of the parents stood. "If you are doing total communication, signing and speaking at the same time, please stand up", the other 2/3 stood up. Then they asked "If you are focused on ASL as the primary language, please stand", my husband and I were the only ones who stood.
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You could be telling my story! This is weird! But good weird!

I don't think that it is a cooincidence that we both chose to ask questions of the Deaf Community in regards to our deaf chidlren, nor that we both had the sense, from the very beginning that the only people who could share with us what it was to be a deaf child was a deaf adult that had lived it. We went to the source for our answers, and we backed up what we were told with information and research from reputable sources.

I am of the opinion that these other parents of whom you speak, and who I have encountered for years, are the ones that refuse to accept information from anyone other than a "hearing expert". The thing is, those experts have expertise in hearing, not being deaf.
 
Ozzie said:
What's the purpose of a panel of Deaf adults then?
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If it will help some parents, then that would be great. The hearing couple of the deaf 2 year old who is friends with my 2 year old learned from the panel of Deaf adults about the importance of ASL. Thanks to the panel, their daughter's language level is developing at a normal rate.
 
It is supposed to change their minds!!!! For some reason, even when presented with the cold hard facts, some parents continue to believe that THEIR child will be the 3% that succeeds. The PIP (parent infant program, the people who work with the families birth to 3) people in our area are very pro-ASL, but the audiologist and the school for the Deaf professionals are NOT!
 
faire_jour said:
It is supposed to change their minds!!!! For some reason, even when presented with the cold hard facts, some parents continue to believe that THEIR child will be the 3% that succeeds. The PIP (parent infant program, the people who work with the families birth to 3) people in our area are very pro-ASL, but the audiologist and the school for the Deaf professionals are NOT!
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I was one of those 3% who succeeded with the oral only approach. My brother didnt and ended up with language delays but thank god for one teacher at my public school who saw my brother struggling in the kindergarten class. She was the one who pushed for him to be transferred to the Deaf school. So, at the age of 5 my brother was exposed to ASL and just thrived under it. He is now getting his Master's.

I continued to stay at the public school cuz everyone thought because I could communicate with hearing people so easily, I was fine. Well, the truth, I wasnt. I faked my way through it all and seriously fooled everyone even myself. Deaf kids can be very very good at faking their way through things.
 
I have had other parents say things like "He can hear so well with his aids" or "She even understands me when she is in the tub" and I always reply "Yeah, he's faking". They are always shocked I would say that and shake their heads in denial.
 
faire_jour said:
I have had other parents say things like "He can hear so well with his aids" or "She even understands me when she is in the tub" and I always reply "Yeah, he's faking". They are always shocked I would say that and shake their heads in denial.
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Yep, faking, or picking up visual cues!
 
faire_jour said:
I have had other parents say things like "He can hear so well with his aids" or "She even understands me when she is in the tub" and I always reply "Yeah, he's faking". They are always shocked I would say that and shake their heads in denial.
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LOL!!! I gotta admit, that I do understand most hearing people but it has to be in very very ideal settings like one on one basis with good lighting.

If conditions werent ideal and I didnt want people to know that I wasnt understanding anyone most of the time, I will get into my "faking it" mode. :giggle:

These days I dont have to get into that mode cuz I am in a signing environment most of the time. However, I still do that at my in-laws. My husband always tells me to stop that and tell everyone to make sure that I am included but it is so much work for me!!!
 
I am oral (still am) and was mainstreamed starting in Year 4 until Year 10 ... I was the only deaf there. Those were very lonely years! My parents forbade me to mingle with the signing Deaf for all those years. So that's probably why I don't like socializing much even up to this day. If I had my life all over again (not that I would want to), I would not have attended a hearing school, if I had the choice.

I believe that if we are happy among our own kind, I'm sure we will be well-off emotionally. Never take us out of our Deaf environment like I was. Those were fun years for me and as far as I remember I was happy! being in the deaf circle. I felt free among my deaf peers in the early days and felt myself blossoming, only to wilt when I was mainstreamed. That was like cutting off my lifeline!

I even suffered a nervous breakdown for a month towards the end of Year 4 and still, I wasn't sent back to the Deaf school ... I was pleading to but that had fallen on 'deaf ears'.

It was only when my hubby & I turned 40, that we were reunited with our deaf friends and have been getting together about once a year. We don't get invited enough because we are "fence-sitters" through no fault of our own ... we have a difficult time mingling with the hearing world because we're deaf to them whereas we have a hard time mixing with the deaf world because we're not deaf enough to them or don’t sign. A catch-22. Even though, our friends willingly speak with us and we do try to basic sign, it's not the same.
 
shel90 said:
LOL!!! I gotta admit, that I do understand most hearing people but it has to be in very very ideal settings like one on one basis with good lighting.

If conditions werent ideal and I didnt want people to know that I wasnt understanding anyone most of the time, I will get into my "faking it" mode. :giggle:

These days I dont have to get into that mode cuz I am in a signing environment most of the time. However, I still do that at my in-laws. My husband always tells me to stop that and tell everyone to make sure that I am included but it is so much work for me!!!
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Yeah, I can always tell when my kid is faking...he gets that glazed look in his eye, and just nods his head to everything! LOL!
 
Yeah, my daughter doesn't bother to fake it. If you don't sign to her she asks again, and then walks away shaking her head like you are an idiot.
 
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