"Don't interpret that - it was a joke"

[ismi]

I use CART in class to follow what's going on. During a math recitation last week, the professor solved an equation whose result was zero, and wrote it as such on the board, but said that the result was 17 (I think it's a joke between him and one of the other students).

Almost immediately, he turned to the captioner and said, "don't type that - it was a joke. Type zero". Now, obviously by the time he said this, she had already typed seventeen, and she did interpret "don't type that ...", as I would assume is appropriate. Later on, same zero/seventeen switch, although he didn't tell her, but she captioned: "equals seventeen (Joke - really zero?)", the parenthesis bit being her own addition.

I spoke to her about it after class, figuring that she's just getting started and so the mistake was understandable (and I get the feeling that CART training programs don't put as much emphasis on this kind of thing as ITP programs). But I'm wondering what the professor was thinking - did he think I might be focusing enough on the CART screen that I'd miss what was on the board, so he wanted to make sure I didn't miss it? Did he think that I would miss the joke, either because he perceives me as not getting the emotional load of vocal intonation, or because of some assumption that I am less capable of getting a joke (or catching the distinction between the joke and the actual solution) because of my HOHness?

Was his interaction with the interpreter inappropriate? Has anyone been in a similar situation, and how did you deal with it? I don't think I'm going to bring it to his attention - various factors make that a bad idea, and I don't think it's all that big a deal. But I'm trying to figure out what it means and if it's a common occurrence that I've just been lucky not to run into too often yet.

 

[Interpretrator]

It happens to me all the time. And from my discussions with other interpreters, it is definitely a very common experience.

Most people who don't know how to work with interpreters, captionists, etc. think that our job is to communicate only the "content material" and none of the other stuff. They can't really be blamed for this, in my opinion, because we are there in a classroom and they view the class content as the important stuff to be communicated. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't vicious audists intent on denying the deaf students their rights (although, seriously, this has been the case a couple of times!).

If it's a one-time thing, I interpret everything that was said and if I have time I interject something like "Too late!" (in a nice way). But if it continues to happen, meaning the teacher really doesn't get it, then I usually have a little conversation after class with the teacher about my role and the fact that I am there to make absolutely everything accessible. Basically "If you don't want it interpreted, don't say it," although of course I don't put it that bluntly.

You are completely right that captionists do not receive as much, if any, ethical training compared with interpreters. And I don't mean that as a slam against them, or to say that captionists are inherently unethical; it's just the way their training is. I know this from working with captionists and also from personal experience training as a Typewell transcriber. So you may want to have a nice conversation with your captionist and explain to her that you want everything that's said, even if the teacher says otherwise. And if he continues to do that...can you talk to him about it without negative consequences? If not, perhaps you can talk to disabled student services (or whatever they call it at your school), as they should be involved with educating teachers on how to work with deaf/HOH students.

Now what has never happened to me, but what I would not tolerate for a second, is if something were said ABOUT the deaf client/student and I was asked not to interpret it. That would necessitate an immediate "role break" and discussion! But I think in your case probably the teacher just didn't want you to get confused.

 

[ismi]

Thanks. It's particularly frustrating when this kind of thing happens with someone who used to work as a live spoken language interpreter (the professor, that is), but I guess the connection is a hard one to make.

You are completely right that captionists do not receive as much, if any, ethical training compared with interpreters.

The irony here is that (in my experience) the ones who were trained as court reporters tend to have a better understanding of the ethics of interpreting - probably because in the legal field, a breach of confidentiality or an altered message is not just unacceptable, but has serious consequences for all involved.

 

[Interpretrator]

Thanks. It's particularly frustrating when this kind of thing happens with someone who used to work as a live spoken language interpreter (the professor, that is), but I guess the connection is a hard one to make.

LOL! That's kind of awesome, you have to admit. (I know, not so much when it happens to YOU.) But it makes even more sense, because spoken language interpreting and sign language interpreting have different sets of ethical rules. I'm sure they overlap in some places (like confidentiality), but I believe many spoken language interpreters have a little more leeway about producing the exact message. So that may be informing his behavior with you.

The irony here is that (in my experience) the ones who were trained as court reporters tend to have a better understanding of the ethics of interpreting - probably because in the legal field, a breach of confidentiality or an altered message is not just unacceptable, but has serious consequences for all involved.

Yes, court reporting/interpreting is a whole different world. Certainly there everything must be reproduced faithfully. But here's what I wonder: you know how judges can order things to be struck (stricken?) from the record? Does that mean the reporter erases it? And isn't that sort of a formal version of "Don't interpret that...it was a joke?" I don't mean that anyone in a courtroom should disobey the judge, but I could envision a court reporter believing that when the person in authority says "Don't type that," it means you don't type it! Just curious...

 

[guido]

I can somewhat relate to this situation. When I was working in relay, I would always get "Don't type that." Of course, I had to type it. This would only frustrate the voice user, and he would tell me again. Although it was funny doing this on prank calls.

 

[Tousi]

Interpretator, hello there....this might sound trivial but what I don't get with the professor is: If there's 50 people in the class and one deaf one, what does saying, "don't type that" when 50 have heard.....what's the significance of zeroing in on one?

 

[Reba]

Interpretator, hello there....this might sound trivial but what I don't get with the professor is: If there's 50 people in the class and one deaf one, what does saying, "don't type that" when 50 have heard.....what's the significance of zeroing in on one?

Right on!

Is it possible that the professor doesn't want some of his utterances "on the record"? Hmmm.... It seems odd but what other could be the reason?

 

[ismi]

LOL! That's kind of awesome, you have to admit. (I know, not so much when it happens to YOU.) But it makes even more sense, because spoken language interpreting and sign language interpreting have different sets of ethical rules. I'm sure they overlap in some places (like confidentiality), but I believe many spoken language interpreters have a little more leeway about producing the exact message. So that may be informing his behavior with you.

I'm actually thinking of a different incident here, where the professor tried to 'include the interpreter in the class'. As in 'you were around when this historical event happened, what do you remember about it?' Gah. It is funny in hindsight, though. And to make it all the more *headdesk*, this was maybe an hour after we'd discussed how interpreting takes a lot of attention, and you can't really distract the interpreter or expect them to participate.

Yes, court reporting/interpreting is a whole different world. Certainly there everything must be reproduced faithfully. But here's what I wonder: you know how judges can order things to be struck (stricken?) from the record? Does that mean the reporter erases it? And isn't that sort of a formal version of "Don't interpret that...it was a joke?" I don't mean that anyone in a courtroom should disobey the judge, but I could envision a court reporter believing that when the person in authority says "Don't type that," it means you don't type it! Just curious...

True. Although perhaps without the precision of legal language ("strike that from the record"), it wouldn't have the same reflexive impact? Not sure. The legal language that comes up accidentally now and then is hilarious, though: "I'm at my witness' end!", or "and so, as the compost depositions" (rather than decomposes).

 

[Interpretrator]

Interpretator, hello there....this might sound trivial but what I don't get with the professor is: If there's 50 people in the class and one deaf one, what does saying, "don't type that" when 50 have heard.....what's the significance of zeroing in on one?

Hiya Tousi...this is what I think happens. The instructor makes a joke like ismi describes, but realizes afterwards that his words are being formalized in some way, either by transcription or by interpretation into a different language. He doesn't want that joke "on the record," either because it's embarrassing in some way that he said it (like Reba suggests) or, as is my guess in ismi's case, he doesn't want it confusing a student whose language skills the teacher doesn't know about. It's like self-censorship after the fact.

If it's the former case then the person needs to get a grip, and learn not to say stuff he doesn't want formalized. If it's the latter, like I said before, I think it's a positive instinct that happens to come out in a negative way.

This is just my guess based on numerous times I've experienced this.

I'm actually thinking of a different incident here, where the professor tried to 'include the interpreter in the class'.

Oh, that is a big sore spot for me. It's rough because again, sometimes the teacher really means well but just doesn't know it's a no-no, and a discussion may have to take place. But I remember one time in an ESL class when the teacher was trying to explain some point using me as a physical model, and she actually put her hands on my hands and STOPPED me from signing to make her point, whatever it was. I'll tell you, I am really good at not letting my personal feelings show when interpreting but I'm fairly certain I let a facial expression slip that time because the whole class had this look like "Oh my god, the interpreter's going to blow!" Heh. That's the only time that's ever happened to me.

Although perhaps without the precision of legal language ("strike that from the record"), it wouldn't have the same reflexive impact? Not sure.

Good point! I don't know either. That might be an interesting study, to observe court reporters in less formal situations and see how they respond when this comes up, and then interview them about what they were thinking. Now I'm all curious.

 

[VamPyroX]

Well, the professor should understand that no matter what... he can't just say "don't interpret/type that" because that's not fair to the deaf students.

 

[Reba]

Oh, that is a big sore spot for me. It's rough because again, sometimes the teacher really means well but just doesn't know it's a no-no, and a discussion may have to take place. But I remember one time in an ESL class when the teacher was trying to explain some point using me as a physical model, and she actually put her hands on my hands and STOPPED me from signing to make her point, whatever it was. I'll tell you, I am really good at not letting my personal feelings show when interpreting but I'm fairly certain I let a facial expression slip that time because the whole class had this look like "Oh my god, the interpreter's going to blow!" Heh. That's the only time that's ever happened to me....

I know what you mean.

The worst time for me was during a supervisor-to-employee disciplinary meeting. The hearing male surpervisor confronted the male Deaf employee about an accusation of sexual harrassment. Not a pleasant topic to begin with. It got worse because the Deaf employee insisted that he was just expressing his culture's common way of affection, such as hugging. The supervisor, out of the blue, then attempted to demonstrate what kind of touch was wrong by using me as a live model! Whoa! Jump back! I certainly wasn't expecting that! And at the same time, the Deaf employee was getting angry. Remember, I'm in a room alone with these two. Not good.

During a law class, the instructor (a lawyer) liked to use the terps as examples for case scenarios. For example, the instructor would say, "Suppose Reba borrowed a car from Ted and was involved in a hit-and-run accident...." No physical interaction but it's kind of weird interpreting "stories" that involve me as one of the characters.

During an esthetics class, the instructor was discussing face shapes. The instructor said, "for a perfect example of a round face shape, look at Reba." Don't you love it?!

Whenever any cultural topic from the 50's or 60's comes up, instructors say, "Well, I guess only Reba and I remember that." :roll:

 

[Interpretrator]

Well, the professor should understand that no matter what... he can't just say "don't interpret/type that" because that's not fair to the deaf students.

Totally agree. I just usually don't bring it up with the professor or student after it happens only one time, because anyone can be a bonehead once. (This also goes for "tell him...") It's when it happens more than once and is obviously part of the teacher's mindset that I arrange for either the deaf student or me to say something, depending on the situation.

Also, you know, it's happened that a teacher continues to do the "don't interpret that" even AFTER I've explained that I interpret everything no matter what. In that case I leave it alone because he's been warned, and the student is definitely getting it interpreted, and it's the teacher's fault if he can't wrap his mind around it! (And embarrassing a teacher in front of his class is the best way to make things difficult for the deaf student(s).)

Whenever any cultural topic from the 50's or 60's comes up, instructors say, "Well, I guess only Reba and I remember that." :roll:

What the heck kind of school do you work in?? LOL...these teachers need a good sit-down with DSPS, not to mention a little reminder of how manners work.

 

[Etoile]

Oh, that is a big sore spot for me. It's rough because again, sometimes the teacher really means well but just doesn't know it's a no-no, and a discussion may have to take place. But I remember one time in an ESL class when the teacher was trying to explain some point using me as a physical model, and she actually put her hands on my hands and STOPPED me from signing to make her point, whatever it was. I'll tell you, I am really good at not letting my personal feelings show when interpreting but I'm fairly certain I let a facial expression slip that time because the whole class had this look like "Oh my god, the interpreter's going to blow!" Heh. That's the only time that's ever happened to me.

The worst I have had was when a computer instructor (adult class) put her hands around my neck (from behind) and pretended to shake and choke me. It was a "grrr, you're driving me crazy" kind of thing, and it wasn't directed at me personally, but I just about lost it. I had no warning and I was absolutely appalled. Fortunately my team took over for me a moment later and I could go out in the hall and calm down. I don't even remember if I told the instructor "please don't do that" or "that's not appropriate" - I just remember her doing it.

 

[Ephesians2_8]

I think most professors don't like being recorded for bad jokes, but they need to reminded that even students bring tape recorder so whatever joke they make, it is going to be recorded anyway. He also need to be reminded that you shouldn't be left out no matter what. If other students can hear what he said, you should to.

 

[BelgianSheepDog]

I was taking a college class and the instructor would start talking about something somewhat related to the lecture, usually a story, and then would ask the interpreter "what was I talking about?" - the interpreter (having a hard time keeping a straight face) would interpret exactly what he said . . .

 

[Etoile]

I was taking a college class and the instructor would start talking about something somewhat related to the lecture, usually a story, and then would ask the interpreter "what was I talking about?" - the interpreter (having a hard time keeping a straight face) would interpret exactly what he said . . .

LOL, I've gotten that a few times too. I usually just give them a bewildered "you're asking me?" look and let one of the other participants answer. It's a pretty amusing situation though.

 

[Interpretrator]

My response:

"Sorry, it goes in my ears and out my hands."

 

[shel90]

Interpretator, hello there....this might sound trivial but what I don't get with the professor is: If there's 50 people in the class and one deaf one, what does saying, "don't type that" when 50 have heard.....what's the significance of zeroing in on one?

I agree...

If the professor said something out loud as a joke then it was meant for the whole class to hear. Why should deaf/HOH people should be any different since we are part of the class too? Also, if the terp or the captioner types it out, then one would assume that we deaf/hoh people are capable as the rest of the class to figure out that it was a joke? I would hope so!

 

[shel90]

I know what you mean.

The worst time for me was during a supervisor-to-employee disciplinary meeting. The hearing male surpervisor confronted the male Deaf employee about an accusation of sexual harrassment. Not a pleasant topic to begin with. It got worse because the Deaf employee insisted that he was just expressing his culture's common way of affection, such as hugging. The supervisor, out of the blue, then attempted to demonstrate what kind of touch was wrong by using me as a live model! Whoa! Jump back! I certainly wasn't expecting that! And at the same time, the Deaf employee was getting angry. Remember, I'm in a room alone with these two. Not good.

During a law class, the instructor (a lawyer) liked to use the terps as examples for case scenarios. For example, the instructor would say, "Suppose Reba borrowed a car from Ted and was involved in a hit-and-run accident...." No physical interaction but it's kind of weird interpreting "stories" that involve me as one of the characters.

During an esthetics class, the instructor was discussing face shapes. The instructor said, "for a perfect example of a round face shape, look at Reba." Don't you love it?!

Whenever any cultural topic from the 50's or 60's comes up, instructors say, "Well, I guess only Reba and I remember that." :roll:

To the first scenario..wow! That is a situation that can get blown out of proportion easily!

As for the rest of the situations, I have had my professors in college use my interpreters as examples for their lectures. I always wondered how the terp felt about that.

 

[Interpretrator]

one would assume that we deaf/hoh people are capable as the rest of the class to figure out that it was a joke? I would hope so!

I don't make that assumption. The thing that translates the worst from one language to another is humor. If I'm working with a client who is fluent in ASL and not as strong in English, I don't ever assume that he would get a joke made in English. Jokes are one of the most difficult things to interpret. The same goes for any two languages, not just ASL and English, and it has nothing to do with intelligence, just language and culture. If the client is fully proficient in English, though, then it's a different story.

One of my most satisfying moments came when I was a student interpreter doing a volunteer religious gig for a friend, and I managed to interpret a joke told in English into ASL quickly enough that she laughed at the same time as the hearing people. That made such an impression I remember it to this day.