Don’t rule out mainstream schools for deaf children

rockdrummer said:
I'm sorry but you misunderstood me if I gave you that impression. I don't equate them.
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I never thought that you did. I was simply agreeing with deafskeptic's statements.
 
Well even from my own experience I was delayed in several things due to simply not being able to hear in an all oral environment in my development year (before school age).

But I eventually got some speech therapy and what have you not, and for a short time used an FM system.

Due to not being able to hear the language around me, I took to reading like crazy. I loved books, it was a language I could see. Words and dialogue written on a page opened doors for me. Did I learn to read entire on my own? No, of course not. But even if I were delayed I eventually caught up and surpassed what is 'average' for my age and or grade level in literacy skills. I attribute this to one teacher who encouraged my love of reading. But heres the thing I was mainstreamed and had a base vocabulary - but even today my speech skills are crap even if my writing comes across as educated.

What I lack in is mathematics, I attribute this to not being able to hear well and thus never got a solid foundation in numbers. but ironically, in geometry Im not so bad. Geometry is visual, books are visual. I say the deaf and hoh should have a conversational language that is visual. The written word is visual.

As I said I have been recognized for my writing skills, but my speech is crap at times, it really is. Some people have automatically labelled me as 'not all there' because on that day at that moment I was having trouble speaking. Its something I cant avoid, speech is often a person's first impression in the hearing world.

I dont think CIs can completely cure speech patterns that have been ingrained into the brain over a period of years. And even then not every CI receipient is a 'success'.
 
Dixie said:
Well even from my own experience I was delayed in several things due to simply not being able to hear in an all oral environment in my development year (before school age).

But I eventually got some speech therapy and what have you not, and for a short time used an FM system.

Due to not being able to hear the language around me, I took to reading like crazy. I loved books, it was a language I could see. Words and dialogue written on a page opened doors for me. Did I learn to read entire on my own? No, of course not. But even if I were delayed I eventually caught up and surpassed what is 'average' for my age and or grade level in literacy skills. I attribute this to one teacher who encouraged my love of reading. But heres the thing I was mainstreamed and had a base vocabulary - but even today my speech skills are crap even if my writing comes across as educated.

What I lack in is mathematics, I attribute this to not being able to hear well and thus never got a solid foundation in numbers. but ironically, in geometry Im not so bad. Geometry is visual, books are visual. I say the deaf and hoh should have a conversational language that is visual. The written word is visual.

As I said I have been recognized for my writing skills, but my speech is crap at times, it really is. Some people have automatically labelled me as 'not all there' because on that day at that moment I was having trouble speaking. Its something I cant avoid, speech is often a person's first impression in the hearing world.

I dont think CIs can completely cure speech patterns that have been ingrained into the brain over a period of years. And even then not every CI receipient is a 'success'.
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There you go. The way to increase literacy is to practice those skills associated with literacy....reading and writing.
 
Just being able to hear sounds doesn't mean that language delays won't happen; one of my classmates from the oral program could speak on the phone with his HA on so it came at a surprise to me that his English was so poor.
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I do know that there are some oral schools/programs where the primary focus is on aquirring speech skills, to the extent that academics get somewhat ignored.
 
And thats whats sad. Alot of employers get a small taste of your literacy level when you fill out the application. If you cant explain coherently on paper why you were fired from this job x number of years ago. And even though ther applicant may be able to speak well and is intelligent, the employer may overlook them for someone who is more literate in writing skills. This is especially true for occupations where writing is going to be one of the main functions and its not neccessarily journalism either.
 
Dixie said:
And thats whats sad. Alot of employers get a small taste of your literacy level when you fill out the application. If you cant explain coherently on paper why you were fired from this job x number of years ago. And even though ther applicant may be able to speak well and is intelligent, the employer may overlook them for someone who is more literate in writing skills. This is especially true for occupations where writing is going to be one of the main functions and its not neccessarily journalism either.
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**nodding agreement** Many job descriptions include the requirement: "Must be able to communicate effectively through writing."
 
Yeah, and the thing is that a lot of oral kids do have difficulty with expressing themselves though writing. Their writing sounds obviously like it was learned as a second language. Not really different from ASL users as a matter of fact.
I hate the myth that mainstreaming is some Glorious Utopia, where dhh kids will get a better education then at a deaf school. If that's true, then how come acheivement levels haven't risen in the years since most dhh kids have been mainstreamed? I'm not calling for a return to segregated education....I think that most kids with classic disabilites (this isn't just limited to the dhh world) should be placed in a split placement setting. Like their week/days would be divided between a specialized dhh placement/program and a mainstream setting. For those kids who live too far away from a dhh placement/program, a good idea might be to do a semester at the Deaf school, and then a semester at the mainstream school. Kids are falling through the cracks, and it isn't good at ALL!
 
deafdyke said:
Yeah, and the thing is that a lot of oral kids do have difficulty with expressing themselves though writing. Their writing sounds obviously like it was learned as a second language. Not really different from ASL users as a matter of fact.
I hate the myth that mainstreaming is some Glorious Utopia, where dhh kids will get a better education then at a deaf school. If that's true, then how come acheivement levels haven't risen in the years since most dhh kids have been mainstreamed? I'm not calling for a return to segregated education....I think that most kids with classic disabilites (this isn't just limited to the dhh world) should be placed in a split placement setting. Like their week/days would be divided between a specialized dhh placement/program and a mainstream setting. For those kids who live too far away from a dhh placement/program, a good idea might be to do a semester at the Deaf school, and then a semester at the mainstream school. Kids are falling through the cracks, and it isn't good at ALL!
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I have been reading all the threads that you all post and the last one that Deafdyke mention about a good idea might be to do a semester at the Deaf school and in another then a semester at the mainstream school. Your mind are working good with solving the problems like this. I think that is a good idea so that the D/HOH students can make the choice which one they can handle going to get a good education. As for me, I would love to go into Deaf school to do the signing with the Deaf population along with the education and also for mainstream, I would love to have the terps there in the classroom to understand what the hearing teacher and the hearing students are saying so that I could learn something about the topics in the classroom. It is a shame and sad that all the hearing teachers have no knowlege to teach us, deafies. If they are going to teach in the hearing classroom along with disabilities, then they need to attend a workshop like one or two days to study about us like Deaf Culture and our deafness. As for ASL, ASL is rock and I love it because I see the signs clearly as visual than lipreading. :h5:
 
Bebonang, you've got my head turning - I will ask my dad if any of his summer workshops cover teaching children with classic disabilities such as d/hh, dyslexia, blindness, and others. If there isnt anything like that in Arkansas then I wouldnt be at all surprised if other states are the same way. If this is the sad truth then there needs to be a push at State Department(s) of Education across the nation to include this in teacher continuing education courses and workshops or heck even in teacher training at colleges and universities. They need to do more than just 'touch on it', there needs to be a semester long course in this.

As for students switching from specialized schools to mainstream every semester may backfire because even hearing students who transfer schools often, are often behind in grade levels for literacy. Im not saying its a bad idea Im just trying to make sure there isnt any loopholes that are so often overlooked in educating the deaf/hard of hearing.
 
Dixie said:
Bebonang, you've got my head turning - I will ask my dad if any of his summer workshops cover teaching children with classic disabilities such as d/hh, dyslexia, blindness, and others. If there isnt anything like that in Arkansas then I wouldnt be at all surprised if other states are the same way. If this is the sad truth then there needs to be a push at State Department(s) of Education across the nation to include this in teacher continuing education courses and workshops or heck even in teacher training at colleges and universities. They need to do more than just 'touch on it', there needs to be a semester long course in this.

As for students switching from specialized schools to mainstream every semester may backfire because even hearing students who transfer schools often, are often behind in grade levels for literacy. Im not saying its a bad idea Im just trying to make sure there isnt any loopholes that are so often overlooked in educating the deaf/hard of hearing.
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Unfortunately, in the mainsteam deaf ed falls under the umbrella of special ed, and even special ed teachers are woefully undereducated regarding deaf ed. At the undergraduate level, they get maybe a chapter or two in a text that is devoted to deaf issues. Graduate level is not much better.
 
jillio said:
Unfortunately, in the mainsteam deaf ed falls under the umbrella of special ed, and even special ed teachers are woefully undereducated regarding deaf ed. At the undergraduate level, they get maybe a chapter or two in a text that is devoted to deaf issues. Graduate level is not much better.
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I can agree with you 100% on that. I don't even remember any chapters to deaf education in undergrad or master's programs.

In my school district, even if a child is mainstreamed deaf ed, a deaf education teacher oversees the educational iep. Just like with vision specialist, the deaf education teacher is assigned to the students and works with the special education, SLP(ours teaches ASL to them) and regular education teacher. She works with the student 2 hours a week. It is something and my district does have mainstream with separate deaf education classrooms with a deaf education teacher.
 
vallee said:
I can agree with you 100% on that. I don't even remember any chapters to deaf education in undergrad or master's programs.

In my school district, even if a child is mainstreamed deaf ed, a deaf education teacher oversees the educational iep. Just like with vision specialist, the deaf education teacher is assigned to the students and works with the special education, SLP(ours teaches ASL to them) and regular education teacher. She works with the student 2 hours a week. It is something and my district does have mainstream with separate deaf education classrooms with a deaf education teacher.
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Things have definately improved in your area in the past 8 years. I'm glad to hear that! One of my main problems with mainstream placement as a first choice under the LRE is that mainstream placement has been occurring at a rapid level before the mainstream setting was prepared to address the needs of the population they were supposed to be serving. Much like the deinstitutionalisation movement in the 1960's regarding the mentally ill. Thousands were released into the community before the community mental health services had the resources to offer support services that would allow for successful integration into the larger population, and as a consequence, thousands were much worse off than they were in the hospitals. The move toward inclusion is a great idea in theory, but unless the support programs are functioning properly and are prepared to serve the population in the mainstreamed setting, inclusion actually creates additional problems.

You might want to check out the thread on the League's plans to open a couple of sattelite offices:

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-news/48063-agency-assist-hearing-impaired.html

I don't know if you saw this one or not.
 
When I was growing up, I never had any interperter, notetakers, or teacher who knew how to sign (except in 2nd grade). I had to learn Japense, English, Spainsh, ASL, SEE, and JSL all on my own. The teacher worked hard with me in 2nd grade during my Special Education class. She taught me signs, and grammar all at the same time! So after the year was over, she had to move to back to the U.S. and she told me it's all up to me to keep going. I kept going and since 2nd grade, i have never had any type of help, even when I came to U.S. to got to college, I still didn't have anybody to interpet or take notes for me, I had to do it all on my own. So even when I went to public schools, private schoos, and DODD schools, I have to do all on my own and thanks to my 2nd grade teacher who gave me a boost and an "open door" to doing it all on my own. I have wore FM and it didn't work for me, I have had hearing aides but teahcers were talking to fast, or facing the board, or walking around the classroom to where I can't understand one word from them. So I had to work twice harder and today I have acquired a degree in Accounting, and degree in Bibicial Studies :) plus I can read, write and speak Japanese, Spainish, and English. I can also sign ASL, SEE< and JSL. The point of all this is that there will always be problems with any kind of systems, and I got to appreciate of what I have today compared to 30 years ago where we (deaf and HOH) have lesser resources than today. I have heard that back in the old days, deaf were put in mental institutions and I was shocked! My wife (deaf) told me about the history of deaf lives and it's a cruel world but at the same time, hearing people were treated badly by hearing people! Deaf also treats other deafies badly too! So there are good and bad people (both hearing and deafies) in the world. No matter how hard we try to improve the way of life, there will always be someone to take it down. I grew up in Japan most of my childhood and my adulthood in United States. So i have been blessed to be able to travel all over the world and I'll tell you, in ohter parts of the world, people who were blind, deaf, crippled, or etc. where treated so badly than they do here in United States. I guess because of my cultural differences, I may have different POV. I really enjoy all of your comments, and POVs. It's so interesting to know how different or similar POV you all have. In Japan, they beleive that if that a person can communicate in any way, in any form, it's a language, where as in United States, they view not all sign languange can be a form of langauge such as SEE is a Codes. In Japan, we view any type of communication is a form of langauge. So due to different cultures, they will always be different POVs. Even my wife's POV and mine are always different LOL but we love each other LOL.
 
Roger said:
When I was growing up, I never had any interperter, notetakers, or teacher who knew how to sign (except in 2nd grade). I had to learn Japense, English, Spainsh, ASL, SEE, and JSL all on my own. The teacher worked hard with me in 2nd grade during my Special Education class. She taught me signs, and grammar all at the same time! So after the year was over, she had to move to back to the U.S. and she told me it's all up to me to keep going. I kept going and since 2nd grade, i have never had any type of help, even when I came to U.S. to got to college, I still didn't have anybody to interpet or take notes for me, I had to do it all on my own. So even when I went to public schools, private schoos, and DODD schools, I have to do all on my own and thanks to my 2nd grade teacher who gave me a boost and an "open door" to doing it all on my own. I have wore FM and it didn't work for me, I have had hearing aides but teahcers were talking to fast, or facing the board, or walking around the classroom to where I can't understand one word from them. So I had to work twice harder and today I have acquired a degree in Accounting, and degree in Bibicial Studies :) plus I can read, write and speak Japanese, Spainish, and English. I can also sign ASL, SEE< and JSL. The point of all this is that there will always be problems with any kind of systems, and I got to appreciate of what I have today compared to 30 years ago where we (deaf and HOH) have lesser resources than today. I have heard that back in the old days, deaf were put in mental institutions and I was shocked! My wife (deaf) told me about the history of deaf lives and it's a cruel world but at the same time, hearing people were treated badly by hearing people! Deaf also treats other deafies badly too! So there are good and bad people (both hearing and deafies) in the world. No matter how hard we try to improve the way of life, there will always be someone to take it down. I grew up in Japan most of my childhood and my adulthood in United States. So i have been blessed to be able to travel all over the world and I'll tell you, in ohter parts of the world, people who were blind, deaf, crippled, or etc. where treated so badly than they do here in United States. I guess because of my cultural differences, I may have different POV. I really enjoy all of your comments, and POVs. It's so interesting to know how different or similar POV you all have. In Japan, they beleive that if that a person can communicate in any way, in any form, it's a language, where as in United States, they view not all sign languange can be a form of langauge such as SEE is a Codes. In Japan, we view any type of communication is a form of langauge. So due to different cultures, they will always be different POVs. Even my wife's POV and mine are always different LOL but we love each other LOL.
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You have achieved some amazing accomplishments, Roger. Congratulations on your successes. And I agree...culture impacts out POV in a very influential way.
 
Culture is always going to be a big factor in how the deaf and hoh are going to be treated no matter where you are at in the world, but most of us can agree that all humans deserve the same respect and dignity that someone gets as fully hearing or 'normal' by the world's standards.

Congrats on your accomplishments, that would have been difficult even for a hearing student, but you accomplished it and showed the world you are worthwhile. :)
 
Dixie said:
Culture is always going to be a big factor in how the deaf and hoh are going to be treated no matter where you are at in the world, but most of us can agree that all humans deserve the same respect and dignity that someone gets as fully hearing or 'normal' by the world's standards.

Congrats on your accomplishments, that would have been difficult even for a hearing student, but you accomplished it and showed the world you are worthwhile. :)
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You are correct...the way the deaf are treated within society is totally dependent upon the way the majority hearing view deafness. I have taken some time to study various deaf cultures in other countries and they way the majority culture views them, and how their status as a citizen is affected by cultural perceptions of deafness. There are many countries in which the deaf are afforded equal status, and are not viewed as disabled in the least. Of ocurse, very few of these are Westernized countries. It appears that the more technologically advanced a country is, the more disabling deafness is believed to be. I find that very odd, because technological advances have actually decreased the communication problems for the deaf.

Martha's Vineyard is one example of the way in which deaf and hearing can live together with equal status.
 
jillio said:
You are correct...the way the deaf are treated within society is totally dependent upon the way the majority hearing view deafness. I have taken some time to study various deaf cultures in other countries and they way the majority culture views them, and how their status as a citizen is affected by cultural perceptions of deafness. There are many countries in which the deaf are afforded equal status, and are not viewed as disabled in the least. Of ocurse, very few of these are Westernized countries. It appears that the more technologically advanced a country is, the more disabling deafness is believed to be. I find that very odd, because technological advances have actually decreased the communication problems for the deaf.

Martha's Vineyard is one example of the way in which deaf and hearing can live together with equal status.
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Boy, wouldnt it be nice if this country was like that?
 
Oh it would be a heavenly place for us LOL. I know I got some education and have accomplished alot. But to me, some accomplishments greater than me are single mothers who works 2 jobs and still manages to go to their children's games. or teens who say no to drugs, sex and continue to enjoy education. That's to me is way better than accomplishment, it's a miracle they can do it.
 
Miss-Delectable said:
Don&rsquo;t rule out mainstream schools for deaf children - Times Online

Our grandson is nearly five years old and is profoundly deaf, but received a cochlear implant in March 2006, which has changed his life. With this, and specialist teaching, he hears, is learning to speak, can count and is starting to read. His parents would like him to go to a specialised school for deaf children, where all teaching is oral, but the local education authority refuses to pay for this and has said that he must go to the school in their area that has a deaf unit, but where the additional help for him would be in sign language, which he no longer uses. What can be done to help him?

Diana Lloyd, Wiltshire

Your grandson’s parents should contact the National Deaf Children’s Society (0808 800 8880) for advice and, if necessary, legal support. He should already have been statemented. If this has not been done, the education authority should be asked to complete a statement.

Given the success of the implant, the suggestion that he should be given support using sign language is fatuous. Do not, though, rule out a mainstream school. If he were to sit at the front of the class, he may well be able to cope perfectly well.

*sighs* So, sign language's fatuous? What does this person know? Nada.
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I wonder what the latest update is on this child?

Would it really benefit him to be in a classroom with sign language? Probably not since the kid no longer uses sign language.
 
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