Doctors againsts ASL

My family tried to learn. We found free lessons at a church and many of my family and friends went to them. About 15 o us. My parents had a hard time learning it but all got to at least learn to finger spell. We would have went further if the church didn't basically say, "Join our church or the free lessons are over".

Ron Jaxon
 
RonJaxon said:
My family tried to learn. We found free lessons at a church and many of my family and friends went to them. About 15 o us. My parents had a hard time learning it but all got to at least learn to finger spell. We would have went further if the church didn't basically say, "Join our church or the free lessons are over".

Ron Jaxon
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That's the thing I dont like about many churches. They are supposed to be helping the community without an agenda, arent they? :dunno:
 
RonJaxon said:
My family tried to learn. We found free lessons at a church and many of my family and friends went to them. About 15 o us. My parents had a hard time learning it but all got to at least learn to finger spell. We would have went further if the church didn't basically say, "Join our church or the free lessons are over".

Ron Jaxon
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weird. They shouldn't advertised like that if it just for the members only. I know some churches have activities just for the members only (they do it because so they can enjoy themselves and have a great time... kinda like having a private beach without dealing with skinny binikis. Mainly because they want to be a role model for their kids)
 
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Well in our case it was at a JW church so we should have seen it coming. Surprised they didn't come knocking on our door after we stopped the lessons. :)
 
RonJaxon said:
I read comments like this a lot here about doctors being against ASL.

I've personally never seen this happen. I've been going to doctors all my life and of course growing up with hearing aids and become deaf I've talked to doctors about my ears and hearing more times then I can count and I've never had a hint of any doctors saying "You should get your ears fixed and not learn ASL". But I can also see it from a doctors point of view.

Think about what a doctors job is. People come to them when something is wrong. Something isn't working. They aren't feeling well. They are sick or hurt.

Their job is to find out what's wrong and figure out how to fix it. Their job is not to tell you how to live your life. You go to them and say, "I am loosing (or lost) my hearing. Is there anything that can be done to give me back the ability to hear"?

No doctor should ever answer that question with:

"Well, I might be able to but I won't because you don't need it. All you've got to so is learn ASL and teach all the people in your life ASL and you'll get along fine without being able to hear".

Can someone do just that? Learn ASL, teach their friends and family ASL and live a happy and fore filled life without being able to hear? Of course they can. Thousands of people are doing just that. But why would a doctor suggest that to someone? No, they need to examine the situation. Find out why the person can't hear. Look into what might be able to restore this person's ability to hear and share this information with the person who "Wants to hear". Most likely they'll need to send the patient to someone who specializes in this area of course.

But a doctor is not there to help people determine these things. They are there to find what's wrong or what someone wants "fixed" and find the best way to fix it. To say, "Ok, I examined you and this is why you lost your hearing. Now here are possible options to regain your ability to hear. Here are the pro's and cons of each possible solution to what you want. I'd suggest this but the end decision is up to you."

I'd personally be upset if a doctor told me that I shouldn't get my hearing fixed when I asked if it was possible. If they told me that I shouldn't go that route and just learn to live with it. Because it's not his job to determine that for me if I ask them specifically "Is there any way I can hear again?" That kind of suggestion should come from a counselor, therapist or psychologist. Not a "physician".

So don't expect a "physician" to ever suggest you just learn ASL and live with your deafness. It's not their job to make that decision. Their job is to see if there is a way for you to hear again if you want to.

Ron Jaxon
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No more worse than deaf who are against ASL.
 
jasin said:
No more worse than deaf who are against ASL.
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yes, I read some blog from several CI users going around "you don't need ASL, I'm the proof of it"

And I read how some think that visual communication would result a brain switch or something. But they don't realize that every words, every signs, every gestures,smiles, frown... is visual and it didn't stop them from a brain switch from speech.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
yes, I read some blog from several CI users going around "you don't need ASL, I'm the proof of it"

And I read how some think that visual communication would result a brain switch or something. But they don't realize that every words, every signs, every gestures,smiles, frown... is visual and it didn't stop them from a brain switch from speech.
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Yep, well said
 
many million doctors in USA or country wouldnt says about ASL or whatevers countries for respectives deaf people..

im sure doctor say not need bring interpreter as own for deaf patient in their own office for policy i didnt know that i read on AD complain about that..
 
my perspective as a hearing parent of a hoh child:

I think a big problem (in terms of deaf kids) is that the doctors are often the ones telling the parents that their baby is deaf, but they don't know enough about deaf culture or ASL to be giving out advice about raising a deaf child. They are medical people. They can tell you what's wrong with the ear or the auditory center of the brain and they can suggest ways to repair it, if possible, but they can't help you raise your child. And if only 1 in 800 or 1 in 1000 babies is born deaf, they may not have a lot of experience with the issue. Their exposure probably comes from medical journals, which are not talking about culture or language.

In a way I think it is up to the Deaf community to welcome parents and make sure that parents know that ASL is an option. I was watching a TV program here in France about a family who had chosen sign language + CI for their daughter. But they didn't sign that well, and I had the sense they were going to slowly drop it as she learned to speak (she was 3 in the program). And the father said in the interview "what I want to know is, where were the deaf people? When we got the diagnosis, where were the deaf people saying 'It's okay, we have our own language, we have our own culture, your daughter will be happy." And of course deaf people can't be in every doctor's office, but how can we make sure hearing people know how to find deaf culture? I just feel that there are great resources from oralist organizations like the John Tracy Clinic and AG Bell but if you want to learn ASL you'd better belong to a church or live near a big Deaf community.

Speaking of which - does anyone know of an ASL family camp? For Cued Speech, there are camps you can go to where they have classes and people to watch the kids, so that you can be immersed in cued speech. Does anything like that exist for ASL? That's the kind of thing hearing parents need!
 
To make a long story short, I have met some doctors that really shouldn’t be working with this kind of stuff. I’m deaf in my right ear, but the doctors did some tests, and those was normal (according to the docs), but they didn’t go further to find out WHY I can’t hear at all in that ear. Instead, one looked into my ears and said it’s normal and that I seem to hear well – of course the room was quiet and I got another ear to hear with. She wanted me to start seeing a psychologist that I had already seen several times and according to her it’s not in my head. The other doctor held her back, said it was normal for teens in my age (I was 18 at the time) to don’t hear and that I didn’t hear because I didn’t want to... I mean, why would I be there if I didn’t want to hear?! Anyhow, I just don’t trust the ear docs anymore.
I know this isn’t exactly what you guys have been talking about, but my point is that the docs overall seem to be nuts round this globe. Being against sign language? Seriously, do they even HAVE a brain? Denying that for a person is like taking the voice away from the hearing, or maybe their hearing over all. I would learn sign language – SSL as it would be over here, but the problem is they don’t have that many courses to teach that out if you’re not in a type of school. Or getting it from the docs etc.
?
 
Doctor isn't the place to give advice to the parents on language to choice. It's teacher! Isn't it?
 
If doctors are trained to do a hearing screening test, they should be train to let parent know what are their options. If not, they still have to let the parents know who they should contact... and they probably will pick someone who is a big supporter CI and AVT.

You don't meet with teachers when your child is born. You meet them years later when it is pretty much too late.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
If doctors are trained to do a hearing screening test, they should be train to allow parent know what are their options. If not, they still have to let the parents know who they should contact... and they probably will pick someone who is a big supporter CI and AVT.

You don't meet with teachers when your child is born. You meet them years later when it is pretty much too late.
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Sometimes if the area has it, a early education interventist will meet with the family.

Right, doctors usually refer the parents to people like them...who see deafness from a medical point of view.
 
Keep in mind that I'm now 39 years old (Well I will be tomorrow for tomorrow is my birthday. :) ). But my story went like this.

In the 1st grade I had my tonsils removed and also had tubes in my ear because of inner ear fluid. Everyone thought that was the only cause of my hearing loss at that point for after the surgery I could hear just fine.

Then in 4th grade they gave my school a basic hearing test and found out I had hearing loss.

I was sent to my doctor who then sent me to a specialist on ear/hearing. I got hearing aids in both ears.

Every few years I'd need a new and stronger hearing aids all the way up through high school. They sent a lip reading teacher to my school and I'd have lip reading lessons one hour a day. With the HA's my hearing was kept to close to "normal" hearing. Well enough that I could hear in class. But toward high school it did start to effect me more. My right ear dropped to the point where the HA no longer helped.

So my right ear was now deaf and my left was heading there too. Between the age of 17 and about 22 my left ear decreased. So I was then deaf in both ears.

I spent about 17 years or so like this. I looked into CI before but they said it probably wouldn't do much good for my degree of hearing loss. This was shortly after the FDA approved them so they where new the first time I looked into it. But I'm glad they where honest with me about it.

So I was basically an adult when I became deaf.

Here's my point. At no point was ASL offered to me. And to be honest I don't blame them. Of course it was always there for me to find if I looked for it. But it wasn't the doctors place to make any kind of comment about it. It was their place to say, "Yes I can restore your hearing" or "No I cannot restore your hearing". Once they've answered that question my time with them is over on that issue.

Now, I go out and find a way to live with this condition life has thrown at me.

On the other hand if someone asked their doctor about ASL. Their answer should be "Yes, there are places and people to talk to about that. Here's who they are and how to contact them". If that can't answer like that I'd rather them to simply say, "I don't know". It wouldn't be their fault to answer with "I don't know". It's not their field after all. I wouldn't ask the baker to fix my car.

Ron Jaxon
 
I suppose if someone is blind, it is no place for doctors to recommend braille or new technologies that would make their life easier... they are only allow to talk about eye surgeries..

or someone lost their leg, it is no place for them to recommend prosthetic legs... just tell get in the wheelchair, you are on your own to solve your own problems.

if they talk about all that, they can certainly talk about Sign Language for the deaf that would make their life easier.
 
I recognize sarcasm when I see it but even so your first sentence is 100% true. It would not be their place to discuss that unless they are an expert in blindness. Otherwise their suggestions could turn out to be the wrong choice for the patient and do more harm then good.

They should find the information to specialist in that area. But they are not qualified to talk to the patient about braille, prosthetic's or ASL. They are "Medical Doctors" not therapist, life coaches or experts in the other fields. So they are not qualified to suggest any course of action either way beyond their own field.

Of course if someone looses their leg a doctor will send them to a specialist on what options are available to them. But that doctor will not suggest what kind of prosthetic the patient should get. They will not recommend any kind of therapy to them beyond the healing of the amputated limb. Once it's healed it's past the medical doctors expertise and is forwarded to the specialist in prosthetic's and learning to use it.

And they should not tell the person who lost their hearing how to learn to live with it. They're not qualified or trained to talk about that at all. They are only in a position to put the patient in contact with people who are specialist in that area.
 
RonJaxon said:
I recognize sarcasm when I see it but even so your first sentence is 100% true. It would not be their place to discuss that unless they are an expert in blindness. Otherwise their suggestions could turn out to be the wrong choice for the patient and do more harm then good.

They should find the information to specialist in that area. But they are not qualified to talk to the patient about braille, prosthetic's or ASL. They are "Medical Doctors" not therapist, life coaches or experts in the other fields. So they are not qualified to suggest any course of action either way beyond their own field.

Of course if someone looses their leg a doctor will send them to a specialist on what options are available to them. But that doctor will not suggest what kind of prosthetic the patient should get. They will not recommend any kind of therapy to them beyond the healing of the amputated limb. Once it's healed it's past the medical doctors expertise and is forwarded to the specialist in prosthetic's and learning to use it.

And they should not tell the person who lost their hearing how to learn to live with it. They're not qualified or trained to talk about that at all. They are only in a position to put the patient in contact with people who are specialist in that area.
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That I agree with but the problem is that the specialists that they usually refer to hold the medical model viewpoint of deafness meaning oralism only and not supportive of ASL or Deaf culture.

I am battling a situation regarding to this topic but cant say more here due to confidentiality reasons. Wish I could though.
 
RonJaxon said:
Who has said it shouldn't be exposed and if someone did who would listen? When and where did a doctor even suggest that?
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Ron, They have been saying that BS all over town for years. Bell started it. The Government, AMA and HLAA perpetuate it. The ENT said it in plain English the other day. We were insulted but we are used to it. People think ASL is alien and strange. Lots of people want to hinder its use for all kinds of foolish reasons. They don't understand that it is right and natural and it's really hard to make them understand. It is what naturally happens when you put two deaf people together. It really troubles me when I meet deaf and HH children who can"t sign. Implant or not. Speech or not. hearing aid or not. when the parents insulate the children from ASL its really because they are denying that the child is deaf.
 
PowerON said:
Doctor isn't the place to give advice to the parents on language to choice. It's teacher! Isn't it?
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It's not really up to the teacher is it, the doctor is the first one you get into contact with (well, not the very first but still), not the teacher. You don't get near those before the child starts school - and then it might be too late. But I don't know, maybe it's different depending on which country you're in.
 
RonJaxon, I do think your situation is different because you already had a language when you lost your hearing. So the doctor probably assumed you would want to keep using the language you knew best. In the case of a prelingually deaf baby the doctors and parents are dealing with something of a blank slate, so they are being asked to make decisions for someone whose future is hard to envision. I don't think it's up to doctors to recommend ASL...I can see why they would talk about CIs because they're a medical intervention, so they know more about them. I think the first step should be to put the parents in touch with early intervention, and its up to the early interventionists to help the parents make educational decisions. The problem is that some of these people are not offering the ASL option.

SnowPrincess, just curious, I've heard that in Sweden the law says that deaf babies should be exposed to sign language starting at birth. Is that not true? I saw it on a deaf program here in France, but it was just something someone said in an interview. People love to talk about how everything is perfect in Sweden...
 
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