Do you use the telephone relay service? I need ur input to make an informed decision

[Tipppytoes]

Hi everyone, I am a dog breeder who breeds & trains dogs for people with disabilities. I also sell the puppies that are not suitable for service. This supports the program. I also place rescue dogs in forever homes. In the last couple of years, I no longer take telephone relay calls because they are being used fraudantly by Nigerians and others who have my info from ads I place. I am not deaf but they say they are. If they have my number, they have my email and could email me so there is no reason to use relay. They are using the relay so the person on the other end doesn't identify their accent. I have been the subject of hundreds of scams of all kinds over the years, so I recognize them immediately and don't get taken in by them. These are scams, not deaf people. This is happening to many breeders and other business people. My understanding is that the interpreter is not allowed in a way to identify them for interfere with the conversation even if they recognize it as a scam. I have not taken any steps to report this to the telephone relay people bcs if the deaf community is still using it and needs it, I don't want to do anything that would interfere. But if most of you are now using email & TM and thiswhole service is mainly being used by scammers its an enormous waste of money & resources and should be reported & perhaps shut down? So pls give me feedback on this.
1. Does anyone still use it or is everyone using email & tm or?
2. Would it be a hardship on you if it were shut down?
3. Do you want it left up but should there be some filtering by the interpreter?
4. Should there be some policies put in place to stop this fraudulant use?
5. I am not knowledgeable on this subject so I would welcome any information you want to give me that would educate me.
6. I would also like to know more about the program. Is it funded federally? 7. Who would one contact to report?
Thanks in advance for your feedback and any information you want to share. PUppy love from Tipppytoes & furry folk

 

[diehardbiker]

Hi, I regret that I do not have easy answer. However I would trust VRS more than other method of relay. More and more Deaf will be able to get 10 digit local number which means that the real telephone number will be assign to each VP machine. Resulting showing the real number on your caller ID. This would be a big plus.

Why I would trust VRS more? That is simply because many of Nigerian does not know the sign language, which minimize the possible of fraud. I am not saying that this is 100% fool proof. I am sure there are limit number of con artist willing to learn sign language in order to scam any victim.

On IP relay, anyone could have use it regardless if person knows sign language or not. That is where the problem is.

Because most of the relay calls are made though Internet, the Internet is still "Wild" and there is no real cop to enforce the Internet. It will take a while for the security to improve. I believe the improvement has been made and has long way to go.

It usually is best to get payment first before releasing any product, and not to release any personal information, always ask for confirmation.
When you get check, do not release immediately EVEN if the check is cashier check or money orders. These instruments can be easily counterfeit. I no longer trust Cashier check or money order. I would require 2 weeks before I release any product.

How do I know about cashier checks and money order? Easy, I once tried to cash check on money order back then in mid 90's, the bank said I can't release the fund because there have been rashes of fake money order and cashier checks. I was like whoa!

What you really can do is be viligant and protect yourself at all times.

 

[KristinaB]

I use the relay operators with my CapTel phone. The advantage I have is I also have Caller ID to know who is calling. If I don't recognize the caller I don't even answer.

As far as I know - the relay operators I dealt with through the Florida relay service (before I lost my hearing) always told me who it was that was calling and what business if applicable, then asked if I would accept the call. Since I worked at the Better Business Bureau at the time, we always took the call, but at least I was able to say I couldn't if need be.

With my CapTel phone, since I can still speak, but can't hear a thing, I can talk like normal, but ready the captions from the Missouri Relay operators. (That's where I now live until November).

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Hi everyone, I am a dog breeder who breeds & trains dogs for people with disabilities. I also sell the puppies that are not suitable for service. This supports the program. I also place rescue dogs in forever homes. In the last couple of years, I no longer take telephone relay calls because they are being used fraudantly by Nigerians and others who have my info from ads I place. I am not deaf but they say they are. If they have my number, they have my email and could email me so there is no reason to use relay. They are using the relay so the person on the other end doesn't identify their accent. I have been the subject of hundreds of scams of all kinds over the years, so I recognize them immediately and don't get taken in by them. These are scams, not deaf people. This is happening to many breeders and other business people. My understanding is that the interpreter is not allowed in a way to identify them for interfere with the conversation even if they recognize it as a scam. I have not taken any steps to report this to the telephone relay people bcs if the deaf community is still using it and needs it, I don't want to do anything that would interfere. But if most of you are now using email & TM and thiswhole service is mainly being used by scammers its an enormous waste of money & resources and should be reported & perhaps shut down? So pls give me feedback on this.
1. Does anyone still use it or is everyone using email & tm or?
2. Would it be a hardship on you if it were shut down?
3. Do you want it left up but should there be some filtering by the interpreter?
4. Should there be some policies put in place to stop this fraudulant use?
5. I am not knowledgeable on this subject so I would welcome any information you want to give me that would educate me.
6. I would also like to know more about the program. Is it funded federally? 7. Who would one contact to report?
Thanks in advance for your feedback and any information you want to share. PUppy love from Tipppytoes & furry folk

How do you know if it is really a scam or if it is a deaf person? Do you EVER accept the relay call and speak with the deaf person, or do you ALWAYS immediately say "we do not accept relay calls" and then hang up? If you had stayed on the phone just a little longer, you would be able to tell whether it is really a deaf person or if it is a scam call. There are obvious signs that will be a dead giveaway to a scam call if you are smart enough to recognize them. I really do not think you are being fair to the deaf person if you NEVER ever accept any relay calls without speaking with the other person for a few minutes to find out whether it is a deaf person or a nigerian scammer. A real deaf person wouldn't be talking about Nigeria or any other African country, and they wouldn't be talking about ridiculously large amounts of money, and they would not be talking about very large money orders (like $10,000 for example), and they wouldn't be talking about wanting any kind of assistance to get out of a foreign country. A scammer would be.

No, I do not think the telephone relay service should be shut down. There are still many deaf people who do not have computers or internet service to be able to use email or videophones. I use telephone/IP Relay and if it was shut down, it would be hard for me because I tend to switch between English and ASL depending on the nature of the phone call I am making. If I am speaking with Medicaid Transportation or with the doctor, I need to type in English and therefore need to use the telephone relay/IP Relay. If I am chatting with a deaf friend, or am just making a simple call to order pizza, then I would use ASL and would use the Sorenson Videophone.

I, however, would be fine with the relay operator filtering out scam relay calls, as there are several obvious signs that it's a scam call.

I believe the relay system is funded by the FCC or something like that.

I wish the relay system would set up something so that operators will be able to make sure that the deaf person making the phone call is IN THE USA, that the phone call is originating from the USA. I would think they would have caller ID. If they do, I seriously think they should make use of that and filter out scammers that way when they see that the phone number came from a foreign country. It would greatly reduce the number of scammers calling through the relay system, and would save a hell of a lot of money on many wasted calls. Unfortunately, I do not think the relay system is allowed to do that even if they had caller ID, unless there is some kind of legislation or law made on this to change this.

 

[Tipppytoes]

Thx for the input

Hi, I don't wait to talk to the person bcs I don't have any deaf friends at this time that use telephone relay service. They email me. they only way anyone would use that service is if they got my number from an ad. Every call I"ve had that I have taken has been a scammer & yes I recognize them pretty quickly. I tell the operator I don't take telephone relay calls & to tell her caller that I report all 419's. Same with the hundreds of email scams. The relay operators will not give info and you can't get it on caller ID bcs the caller ID goes to the operator not the recipient of the call. I agree that the operator should have more scope in restricting the calls to the US and perhaps have a checklist to recognize scammers & shut them down. What do you all think? Thx & puppy love from Tippptoes & furry folk

 

[IslandBreeze07]

Just because you've been scammed in the past....does not mean you ought say "I don't accept relay calls". What if the next call is actually a deaf client? You'd get scammed if the Nigerians got the info they're looking for in a phone call. The worst you can do is talk to the caller. They're calling about your dogs....not money. If it's nothing about the dogs, ease out of the call. These Nigerians can do nothing if you refuse to give out info...... You can report them to the police if they try to scam you again. Come on.

Then again, I am not in your shoes......but Lucia's right. I get hung up on just because of people like you and I resent it. I'm no Nigerian but when I get hung up, I practically YELL at the caller that I'm a customer of so-so and if they really value customers, then $^#*^R take the call! Sometimes relay actually help with this when I give them a heads up on what kind of info I'm putting out on the call.

I just HATE having to make phone calls and wait, wait and then get hung up on. Just a big pet peeve of mine......don't mind me.

 

[Jolie77]

Mod's Note:

The thread is moved to it's proper location.

 

[Tipppytoes]

Sorry to be one of those who peeve you. Customers, deaf & hearing act like customers. They email first and tell me about themselves and families & what kind of life the dog would have with them and identify their location. They do other things that show they are friends or customers. If they act like a duck & quack like a duck, they are usually a duck. The calls I get on the relay are out of the blue with no prior email The conversation is almost always scripted. I recognize the script. That's why I can identify them. That's why I hang up. I'm not worried that they will succeed in scamming me as I can identify them right off. I have better things to do with my time than play that game. I don't think I've mistaken any scammers for sincere deaf folk. How many people do you call out of the blue with no prior email, or introduction? Telephone relay is also very time consuming for the receiver. I only advertise on line so if they have my phone #, they have my email & access to a computer or they wouldn't have my number in the first place. Why should I take the time when its always been a scam?
The point is that scammers are giving your service a bad rap and I'm telling you about it. Now what do you suggest we do to resolve it? I resent my tax money going to a service that in my experience mainly serves scamers unless you tell me otherwise and that it is really valuable to you, I think its time has past and technology has made this service obsolete. That's why I'm coming to your community to get your input before I complain to anyone. You get it straight from me. I want to get it straight from you all. PUppy love from Tipppytoes & the furry folk

 

[radioman]

tippytoes-
I can understand your frustration with relay calls. From a deaf point of view, we are equally as frustrated when trying to make calls and before we even had a chance to explain who we are, the hearing person would hang up at the first sentence from relay explaining its a relay call. Sometimes we have to call back and explain relay not to introduce themselves but they are obligated by their relay employers to do so or risk losing their job or get a bad review.

Yes it will be a hardship if the relay is shutdown , and or make us find other ways to contact you. Sometimes we are calling to make the first contact to schedule a in person appointment or to get your other preferred ways of communication.

Basically right now there are two sources of how relay calls are funded. One is the old but still in use TTY relay calls are funded by the state. They were at one time funded by the FCC and they gradually eased them into the state funds. The other is video relay service ( most preferred way of communication),INTERNET relay through a chat program on PC or smart phones (secondary use for most deaf) is funded by the FCC. Currently, it will stay with the FCC for a while due to the fact its a IP based call and for security reasons (IE: 911 calls, etc), will not go to private funding or lower level government funding like the states.

I realize that answering relay calls can be the least favorite thing for you to do, but with the economy the way it is, we are your potential customers to boost your income. I DO want you to chew on this for thought - the idea of the Nigerians using our relay services trying to fake themselves as deaf and try to scam Americans angers us. In fact its making my blood boil thinking how can any humans on the planet earth destroying whatever dignity, worthiness the deafs/HOH population when we have it hard enough trying to make our deaf heritage/culture to work with the hearing world which accounts for over 99% of the people on planet earth?! (okay - i fudged the percentage but its a idea of how we feel, I dont have a clue of the percentage but it gotta be close)

the statement of you wanting the relay to make some sort of filtering, they are not allowed to. Due to rules and regulations that the FCC has outlined, relay operates are to interpret exactly what they hear on the phone and pass it along. Yes they do inform the deaf of any background noises heard through the phone. Its up to the deaf if they want to act on it or not. IE: kids screaming or talking too loud , or sounds of typing you make when you checking your PC etc. the same goes vice versa for hearing to listen to the way the deaf is acting on videophones- signing fast or slow, body language as if they are angry or happy or with TTY's typing fast or slow like one letter at a time for one word to emphasis the feeling of the conversation.

If you have any complaint with the relay operate, feel free to write down their opr numbers and the service provider like Sorenson, hovrs, sprint, CSD etc and make a formal complaint to the FCC by calling them or doing it online at FCC website. IF you have a complaint against the deaf person, such as angry customer, threats been made, or abusive talk etc. then its a police matter. Its the same as any hearing person - collect as much info you can and report to the police and they will take care of it. be sure you explain the person is deaf and needs to use the relay service when making a call to the deaf/HOH person so the communication can take place.

Overall I am pretty sure that 99% of deaf and HOH people, you will find we are much more easier and pleasant to work with if only you can take the little extra time to talk with us. Just like the hearing people, you will find people that takes up 1% of the people you meet are scammers or someone esp. hard to deal with that puts a bad label on certain groups of people.
I just hope you can find it in your heart that you can change the way you approach the relay calls thinking that just maybe only 1% are scammers or abusers, but the rest of us are actually trying to make a legitimate call to you because you are the one providing the service or products that we are interested in.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Hi, I don't wait to talk to the person bcs I don't have any deaf friends at this time that use telephone relay service. They email me. they only way anyone would use that service is if they got my number from an ad. Every call I"ve had that I have taken has been a scammer & yes I recognize them pretty quickly. I tell the operator I don't take telephone relay calls & to tell her caller that I report all 419's. Same with the hundreds of email scams. The relay operators will not give info and you can't get it on caller ID bcs the caller ID goes to the operator not the recipient of the call. I agree that the operator should have more scope in restricting the calls to the US and perhaps have a checklist to recognize scammers & shut them down. What do you all think? Thx & puppy love from Tippptoes & furry folk

So no deaf person would get your number from an AD online without a computer and internet service? I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. You train dogs for people with disabilities. People with disabilities would include deaf people. So of course, some deaf people would be calling you if they are interested in a trained hearing dog, including deaf people from deaf organizations such as CSD and organizations that work with deaf people such as Vocational Rehabilitation. And you say you also sell dogs that are not suitable for service and place rescue dogs in forever homes. Have you ever considered that there ARE some deaf people out there that ARE interested in having a pet and are calling you to see about getting a dog from you and wants to provide a forever home for one of your dogs, either the ones that aren't suitable for service or the rescue dogs? We do want pets, too. Not only hearing people wants pets. Deaf people want pets, too. Why do you think I have pets myself? You are not being fair to the Deaf community when you refuse to accept relay calls. You say you always know that it's a scammer, but yet have NEVER accepted a single relay call. I don't believe you. It is impossible for 100% of your relay calls to come from scammers. Maybe a large number is possible...but 100%? No.

Not ALL deaf folks have email or even have internet service. Many do not. Some don't want the internet service and are not into computers or do not know how to use a computer. I know some deaf people that do not even own a computer at all who have dogs as pets or as service dogs. And computers do crash and break, too. They end up in the repair shop because some deaf people do not know how to fix their own computers, and it can sometimes take up to a couple weeks or even more for their computers to be repaired, and in the meantime, they rely on their TTYs. Not all of us are computer geeks. You're not being fair to that part of the deaf community when you don't take the relay calls. They have no choice but to use a TTY and place a relay call because they do not know how to use a computer or do not own one at all or it is in the repair shop therefore they can't email you but yet wants a dog (either a service dog, or a dog that isn't suitable for service but is wanted as a pet, or a dog that they want to provide a forever home to). They are like hearing people...we do want dogs. That's why we call you. We see your AD, we see your number on the AD, so we place a relay call to call you to see about getting a dog from you. You tell us you do not take relay calls, therefore you lose our business. We feel you are not being fair, so we take our business elsewhere. What if we heard so many good things about you and your dogs, and we want one of your dogs, and you won't take our calls? Then we do not get to get a quality dog from you and instead have to go elsewhere and possibly not a very good breeder or who runs a puppy mill? We don't want that. We want a good dog that is healthy and well-behaved and well-treated and stuff. What if that dog we want is one of yours? You know...what you are doing is kind of discriminating. I know that scammers are very annoying...we think they are annoying too...we get many emails from them, too, so you are not alone. We understand. But, we do call you. Please, accept our relay calls...I am very sure that a good percentage of the relay calls you get are from genuine deaf persons, not scammers. Really. You say you recognize the scammers on every single relay call quickly. I don't believe that. Not every single relay call. I don't think so. I don't think you've stayed on the phone line for more than 30 seconds before saying that you do not accept relay calls and then hanging up on us. That is really not fair to us at all. Yes, we mostly blame the scammers for that, but it is also on you as well. If you would have given us TWO MINUTES to explain ourselves, then you will find out that we are calling to see about getting a dog from you, not to ask for help in getting out of a foreign country, or to cash/deposit a check or money order for a ridiculously huge amount of money. We are not interested in the money. Some of us in the deaf community would like to get some of your dogs. We call you because we are interested in a dog of yours, not the money. Big difference. Trust me, you can tell the difference if you gave us a chance to explain ourselves. Not every single relay call would be from a scammer. You say you receive hundreds of relay calls. I am pretty sure that a good percentage of the relay calls comes from genuine deaf persons.

Have you ever considered the possibility that even though you only advertised your phone number online on the internet, that hearing people may have gotten it off the internet and given it to a deaf friend of theirs that they know are interested in one of your dogs? Ever heard of "word of mouth" advertising? It still exists even today, even with the internet. "Word of mouth" advertising will ALWAYS exist no matter what...its a natural thing to happen. Someone with a computer and internet service sees your AD and hears that their deaf friend is interested in a specific product, and they happen to know where their deaf friend can get this product, so they tell their friend where, and sometimes they even have the phone number so they get it off of the internet and give it to their deaf friend, and that deaf friend calls you on the TTY using the relay system from his or her own house when they get home. That does happen. So, no it doesn't necessarily mean that every single relay call you receive is a nigerian scammer. If you started accepting relay calls, and gave the person on the other end a chance to explain themselves to you, you would be surprised at the number of deaf individuals that are interested in your dogs. It may even boost your business. Really. Or, do you think that all deaf persons that doesn't have a computer and internet services have no interest in your dogs? If you think that, then that is a really ignorant thing to think. And extremely unfair. Just learn some patience and give us a few minutes to explain ourselves, and you would be pleasantly surprised at how many of us want to get a dog of yours, and that we aren't nigerian scammers.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

How many people do you call out of the blue with no prior email, or introduction?

MANY. Really. I have called many people without emailing them or any other prior introduction. Why? It's quicker than emailing them and takes a few minutes rather than emailing them and then waiting a few hours or even a couple of days before hearing back from them when they have a chance to get on the computer to check their email, when it is something I need right away or it is important or just because I want it now. Other deaf people do this, too. I am not the only one, trust me. It's not like I can expect everybody to sit at their computer all day waiting for all their emails to come in. People have things to do. Most people I know only check their email before they leave for work, and then again after work, then before bed. That's about 3 times a day.That's the average for most people. Some people do check more often, others only check only once a day.

The point is that scammers are giving your service a bad rap and I'm telling you about it. Now what do you suggest we do to resolve it? I resent my tax money going to a service that in my experience mainly serves scamers unless you tell me otherwise and that it is really valuable to you, I think its time has past and technology has made this service obsolete. That's why I'm coming to your community to get your input before I complain to anyone. You get it straight from me. I want to get it straight from you all. PUppy love from Tipppytoes & the furry folk

We have known for practically forever about the nigerian scammers. You think we know nothing about this? No. This kind of shit has been happening for more than several years now. I remember receiving my first nigerian scammer email before I was even in college, which would be around 2000, (which made me go WTF the first time, fortunately my gut feelings told me to not to cash or deposit anything or release any personal info, in fact I never even replied to the email, my gut feelings told me to delete it) and then the nigerian scammers moved on to and began using the relay system about 2 or 3 years ago, maybe longer, because we have caught on to them in emails and they know it. It is nothing new. I had an email account with Excite way back then, but I have abandoned it about 4 years ago due to the massive amount of nigerian scammer emails that has come in over the years and it became too time-consuming to delete each email and decide which email was not a scammer one and to clean the email account out since more scammer emails keeps coming in everyday anyway, therefore I abandoned it and now have a Gmail account which is clean and has almost no junk or spam, and hardly any scammer emails, because I keep my email address private now and do not give it out to anyone except my own friends and family members on my mother's side as well as my sister, and I do not use it to sign up for anything. I also created an extra Gmail to use for Ebay, Amazon, and other online shopping websites and businesses only. So, yes, we know about this already. We are NOT happy about this. We want them to stop it, but they will not stop until they find a better way to scam people. First it was the emails, now they have moved on to the relay system, someday they will move on to something else. Even the videophone relay system and AIM and other messenger programs and email addresses are not immune to this...they can't call hearing people using a VP themselves because they do not know sign language and have to know sign to use the VP themselves (VP is only given to deaf people - at least that is the case with Sorenson VP) but they can use Sorenson's relay service (Sorenson IP Relay) as well as many other internet relay services (such as IP-Relay.com) to call us deaf people on our VPs and try to scam US too...so you are not the only one they are trying to scam. They are trying to scam everybody and their mother. They also find our numbers or our AIM or other messenger program user names (such as MSN or Yahoo) and even our email addresses on DeafVP.com and then call us or IM or email us and try to scam us. A few deaf people as well as some hearing people have fallen for the scams. I am listed on VP but my number and my AIM user name is not there, I have it set up in my profile so that if someone wants to call me, I get an email (my email address is also not revealed to them - I have it set up that way also) and then decide if I want that person to call me (I decline if I do not know that person). But some deaf people do not realize it and put their numbers/messenger user names/email addresses on there anyway. The nigerian scammers will try to scam anybody and everybody they can, hearing or deaf, because they want the money. If you go to deafVP.com - The Sorenson videophone directory, you will see a notice on the right side of the website that says "Protect yourself from Fraud!" and then says "click here for ASL videos" which deaf people can click on to watch the videos (they're in ASL but have captions if you want to watch them) that explain that the website allows others to view our information, and warns us about the nigerian scammers as well as lottery and dating scammers. Also, we can have our profile set up so that when people requests our Videophone number, they have to click on a little button and then enter their own information and who they are and why they want to call us, and that information will then be sent to our email and we can then decide whether to give them our videophone number or not. And it's not only the nigerian scammers...it's also the lottery and dating scams as well that we are plagued with. So, yes, we feel your pain, too.

I consider the telephone relay system to be really valuable to me. I do want the relay operators to filter out the nigerian scammers, but unfortunately they are not allowed to due to FCC's rules and regulations, like radioman said. I think, if there was some legislation or some kind of law made or changed, that would force FCC to allow for the operators to filter out scammers, then it would be a huge help to both the deaf community and the hearing world who want to communicate with the deaf community.

I suggest that you learn to have a little patience and give us a few minutes to explain ourselves before making a decision as to whether we are a genuine deaf person or a nigerian scammer, and then decide whether to continue the call or hang up. We feel that when you don't give us a chance to explain ourselves, that you are discriminating us. It may not be exactly discrimination, but it sure feels that way.

As for the relay system being made obsolete due to today's technology...not completely. As long as the type of batteries needed to keep a computer, router, and modem running in the event of a power outage continue to be very expensive, and as long as the Videophones and TVs have no back-up batteries in the event of a power outage, we are always going to need TTYs in case of emergencies because not everybody can afford a Sidekick or a Blackberry (to make relay calls from them or use AIM on), therefore, TTYs and the relay system won't be completely obselete for quite a while. I used to have 2 TTYs, the only reason I do not have any is only because they broke and were rendered irrepairable. I can't afford another one. So I have nothing right now except my Sidekick if the power goes out. I would rather use a TTY than my Sidekick to call people during a power outage, and I can't call deaf people on their TTYs or their Videophones from my Sidekick anyway, the only way to contact deaf people from my Sidekick would be on AIM or one of the other messenger programs, and not everybody has a computer with AIM or other messenger programs for me to contact them on AIM or other messenger programs on my Sidekick. TTYs made today come equipped with a place for us to put back-up batteries in, in the event of a power outage, so we can call the power company or call 911 in an emergency during a power outage (I think the batteries last for about one to two hours in use, not sure, I know mine did, though). So, as long as this is so, TTYs are still going to be in some demand. I know I still want a TTY. I'd be thrilled if somebody gave me a TTY with a place for back-up batteries.

Sorry for the novel, but I felt the need to explain all this to you.

 

[shel90]

It is not our fault that the scammers decided to take advantage of the services many of us rely on to communicate with people like you. Lucia is right..many of us are frustrated and it wouldnt help if business owners or employees let their frustration get the best of them and start hanging up immediately whenever they hear the relay announce themselves. You started a business and it is your responsibility to serve all of your customers by providing a service without discrimination.

I think Lucia has said it all in a nutshell..

Lucia

 

[Tipppytoes]

Hello my friends, I appreciate your thoughtful posts. To blame me as discriminatory does not solve the problem. I am one of many who will no longer take the time to answer the relay. I have never had a legitmate call on the relay. Patience is not my virtue & that's not going to change. Call me discriminatory but that's The way things are. If I was discriminatory, I wouldn't have come to you in the first place and discussed this matter. But as you have pointed out, I am just one of many who will no longer take relay calls. Of course you are frustrated when your calls aren't taken and if you, as a community don't do anything about it, more of your calls won't be taken & you will become more frustrated. To blame me or other business people is to behave like victims and accomplish nothing but more frustration. You are handing your valuable service over to the scammers. The more it happens the less business people will take the calls. I predict that the relay will ultimately die as a result. The scammers win. You lose. And maybe some business will be lost. But the business people won't know that.
If you really value this service you need to clean it up. I would like to suggest to your community that you take action. This is your service. Your voice needs to be heard. If the FCC is the ones making the law that prevents you from being heard, then go to the FCC. or your elected representative. Its up to you to find out who has the power to change the law and then pressure them to change it. I would think that they might welcome suggestions on how to reduce access to scammers. They probably don't know this is happening.
Presently, when a relay call comes in, I talk to the operator then there is a long wait while the operator gets info from the caller. Perhaps you might want to insist that the law be changed so that the operator gets all identifying information from the caller including ph# and address & purpose of call & gives that to the recipient up front before we have to wait for the first words from the caller. Also, I would want the phone # to come from the operator's caller ID so that can't be scammed. I don't ship dogs overseas so if its a local #, I might be more inclined to accept the call. That's what would make me, as a business person take the call. Perhaps you have other, better ideas. Maybe you need to ask other business people what would make them more amenable to relay calls.
It took decisive action and many years and a lot of work for disabled people to pass the ADA. I would respectfully recommend that your community do what those folks did to gain equality. YOu have the ability to change the law and make it work for you to streamline & keep your valuable service. Otherwise, when enough people refuse to take calls, the service will probably die out. Please keep me posted. Puppy love from Tippytoes & the furry folk

 

[diehardbiker]

Relay service eventually dies? You must be kidding!

Here is the truth, the relay service has been on rise ever since 1993! There have not been a decline in Relay service.

Of course, I can understand that the IP relay, TTY relay can be time consuming and guess what? Even if the call is legitimate, the operator is required to follow the script which could effectively fooled you into thinking they are scammer. That is why you never know.

What is not true is that Video Relay service is time consuming. Video relay call conversation is equivalent as if the relay operator is non-exist.


What I know for sure is that relay service will not die for a long long long time.

Seriously, when I make a relay calls, sometimes people called me scammer, their loss! I went somewhere else where they take my relay calls, they won my business. I seem to have much less problems when I use Video Relay Service.

What I would advise is WAIT til after the relay script is done and see if there is added script from the origin then you will know.

 

[Oddball]

. The more it happens the less business people will take the calls. I predict that the relay will ultimately die as a result. The scammers win. You lose. And maybe some business will be lost. But the business people won't know that.
If you really value this service you need to clean it up. I would like to suggest to your community that you take action. This is your service. Your voice needs to be heard. If the FCC is the ones making the law that prevents you from being heard, then go to the FCC. or your elected representative. Its up to you to find out who has the power to change the law and then pressure them to change it. I would think that they might welcome suggestions on how to reduce access to scammers. They probably don't know this is happening.

1. Relay service will not die. It will be around for a long time. :roll:

2. If you want to be heard, you have to contact FCC YOURSELF. Because you start to vent it off in the first place.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Hello my friends, I appreciate your thoughtful posts. To blame me as discriminatory does not solve the problem. I am one of many who will no longer take the time to answer the relay. I have never had a legitmate call on the relay. Patience is not my virtue & that's not going to change. Call me discriminatory but that's The way things are. If I was discriminatory, I wouldn't have come to you in the first place and discussed this matter. But as you have pointed out, I am just one of many who will no longer take relay calls. Of course you are frustrated when your calls aren't taken and if you, as a community don't do anything about it, more of your calls won't be taken & you will become more frustrated. To blame me or other business people is to behave like victims and accomplish nothing but more frustration. You are handing your valuable service over to the scammers. The more it happens the less business people will take the calls. I predict that the relay will ultimately die as a result. The scammers win. You lose. And maybe some business will be lost. But the business people won't know that.

We ARE the VICTIMS. WE are the victims of the scammers, and so are YOU. BOTH the Deaf community AND the Hearing world are the VICTIMS of the scammers. I am not blaming you. I am blaming the SCAMMERS. We are NOT handing the service over to the scammers. They found out themselves that they are able to take advantage of the system to scam everybody and their mother. They did it themselves. We did NOT hand the service over to them. We did not say "Hey scammers, go ahead and call the relay system at this number and go scam the Americans out of their money". We are not that dumb. You are being rather insulting right now. We feel that since you WON'T take the time to let us identify ourselves and explain ourselves and tell you that we would like one of your dogs, you are DISCRIMINATING against us. It is not fair that you will NOT provide service to the Deaf community just because you don't want to take the time to let us explain ourselves and tell you that we are interested in one of your dogs. It's only a few minutes. But as you said, patience is not your virtue. Well, if you own a business, you are required to have patience in order to run a business successfully. But since you are not going to have any patience and allow us to identify ourselves, explain ourselves, and tell you we are interested in a dog of yours, you are losing our business. That's not a successful way to run a business, and not a very ethical way to run it, either. You know, you could get in trouble with the law according to the ADA laws. Maybe someone in the Deaf community decides she or he is interested in one of your dogs, decides to call you via the relay system, and then is told that you do not take relay calls, and then gets hung up on. That person could get angry enough to take action and possibly hire a lawyer and SUE you for discrimination, no matter what YOUR reason is. IF she or he wins, you could stand to lose a lot of money, and thus even lose your business. That's something for you to chew on.

If you really value this service you need to clean it up. I would like to suggest to your community that you take action. This is your service. Your voice needs to be heard. If the FCC is the ones making the law that prevents you from being heard, then go to the FCC. or your elected representative. Its up to you to find out who has the power to change the law and then pressure them to change it. I would think that they might welcome suggestions on how to reduce access to scammers. They probably don't know this is happening.

Presently, when a relay call comes in, I talk to the operator then there is a long wait while the operator gets info from the caller. Perhaps you might want to insist that the law be changed so that the operator gets all identifying information from the caller including ph# and address & purpose of call & gives that to the recipient up front before we have to wait for the first words from the caller. Also, I would want the phone # to come from the operator's caller ID so that can't be scammed. I don't ship dogs overseas so if its a local #, I might be more inclined to accept the call. That's what would make me, as a business person take the call. Perhaps you have other, better ideas. Maybe you need to ask other business people what would make them more amenable to relay calls.
It took decisive action and many years and a lot of work for disabled people to pass the ADA. I would respectfully recommend that your community do what those folks did to gain equality. YOu have the ability to change the law and make it work for you to streamline & keep your valuable service. Otherwise, when enough people refuse to take calls, the service will probably die out. Please keep me posted. Puppy love from Tippytoes & the furry folk

So we are the only ones who should take action and clean it up? YOU should get involved, too. Not just the Deaf community, but the Hearing world needs to get involved. We are tired of being the only ones who have to fight for ourselves with no help from the Hearing world. It would be quite nice if the Hearing world would get involved and help us fight for our rights and for our right to good service and to be able to make relay calls to businesses without the scammers getting in the way of us conducting business with others. It is not up to ONLY us. YOU, too. You and the Hearing world too. We BOTH should be in this together.

You think the FCC doesn't know about this? They have known about this for quite some time. It's been going on for some time, and if they don't know about this, then they would be quite ignorant for not knowing anything. No. They know. They just will NOT change the FCC rules on filtering out scammers. BOTH the Deaf community AND the Hearing world needs to UNITE together and pressure the FCC to change their rules and pressure them to allow the relay operators to use Caller IDs to see where the call is originating from, and then filtering out any call that comes from out of the USA. The more people that pressure them, the better. We BOTH also need to go to our representative or congressperson as well. And even then, I am not so sure FCC will be willing to do that, because maybe the people from other countries, the legitimate people who are NOT scammers, will get upset about this and there will be an uproar about this because of course there are Deaf people who have family and friends who live in other countries who want to call us, and that would not be fair to them. They will call this discrimination, too. So, it's a Catch-22. So, if the FCC were to change their rules, they would have to change it so that the relay operator will accept calls from out of the USA, but also talk to them first and figure out whether they are legitimate people or scammers, and then filter out the scammers (there are obvious signs) and then if the calls are legitimate, they will then allow the calls to go through to the persons they want to call, but it's going to be a bit complicated and could take some time to do this. If the Deaf community, the Hearing world, and the legitimate foreigners who live overseas are willing to put up with the extra time needed for the operators to filter out the scammers and all that, then that would be great. But, I am pretty sure that sometimes there will be scammers who can still fool the operators and are able to make the calls go through to us. It then falls on us (both Deaf and Hearing) to figure out if this call is a legitimate call or a scammer call and then we have to make the decision whether to continue the call or hang up. We still have to do that, it is still our responsibility (both Deaf and Hearing) to do that. That's just how it is. It sucks, I know. But we, the Deaf community, would appreciate it so much if you, the Hearing world, the Hearing businesses, would take the time to talk to us and give us a few minutes to explain ourselves and then figure out if we are legitimate callers or a scammer, and then make the decision whether to continue the call or hang up. Otherwise, the Hearing businesses will lose our business. Not so good, especially in this economy nowadays, it is? Think about that. In this crappy economy nowadays, you (the Hearing businesses) are going to really need our business. Our business would help you a hell of a lot.

If you (the Hearing businesses) would take the time to let us explain ourselves, then YOU AND US will WIN, and the SCAMMERS will LOSE. If you hang up every single time you get a relay call from anybody, you LOSE, we LOSE, the scammers WIN. Do not let the scammers win by making you hang up every time you get a relay call and losing the Deaf community's business.

We were part of the disabled community that helped pass the ADA laws. You think we sat on our asses and did nothing while the OTHER disabled people did the work? WRONG. We helped pass the ADA laws. We got involved. You sound like you are accusing us of doing nothing and that the OTHER disabled people were the only ones who helped pass the ADA laws. That's quite insulting.

Also, it sounds like you are accusing us for the scammer calls by saying that we have to clean it up if we do value the relay system. It's not our fault. You know, you sound like you don't really support the Deaf community and that you care only about your own business. We do want the scammer calls to stop, we do want to get the FCC to change the rules so that the relay operators can filter out the scammer calls, but we need YOU, the Hearing world, to get involved too and to help us do it. We shouldn't have to do it ourselves alone. That's not fair.

If you feel you can't handle the relay calls at all, then perhaps you should shut down your business and get a job at Walmart or something like that since you don't belong in a small business as a owner if you can't handle relay calls at all. Business owners should not discriminate against us just because the scammers are calling you/them. That is not fair to us. It is NOT our fault. We did nothing to cause the scammers to call you. They did this all on their own, they figured out that all they have to do is call the relay system on their computers and have the relay operator dial the number and call you and say they are deaf and try to scam you without you being able to identify the person who is calling you. They are THAT smart enough. Don't underestimate the foreign people. They took advantage of our relay system and of the Deaf community as well as the Hearing World. We, both the Deaf and the Hearing people, value the relay system very much and use a lot, and we really do need the relay system. Most of the Hearing world do value our relay system because it allows them to communicate with the Deaf community. Obviously you do not value the relay system at all and the fact that it allows you to communicate with a Deaf person who do not have a computer and has to use a TTY instead. The relay system is designed for BOTH the Deaf community AND the Hearing world so they can communicate between each other, so it is not on ONLY us Deaf to handle this, but it also falls on the Hearing world as well, since we do need their help in combating this problem. You sound like you are refusing to help us in this matter and saying that this is our problem, and that we need to clean it up ourselves. You seem to care only about yourself and your business, and not the fact that there ARE some Deaf people who would like one of your high-quality dogs. That's rather insulting to us as the Deaf community. :roll:

All this is my

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

What I would advise is WAIT til after the relay script is done and see if there is added script from the origin then you will know.

I absolutely agree! It will take maybe only FIVE FUCKING MINUTES. It's not like it's going to take 2 hours to figure out whether it's a legitimate call or a scammer. It takes only a few damn minutes.

Tippy, if you don't have the patience to figure out whether it's a legitimate call or a scammer call, then you have no business running a business in the first place since you are discriminating against us.

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

1. Relay service will not die. It will be around for a long time. :roll:

That's right. It's been around for 16 years already. I remember when relay system first began. That was awesome. It allowed me to communicate with the Hearing world. Allowed me to call a hearing relative or a hearing friend or call to order a pizza. As long as there is demand for relay service, it is never going to die. We will ALWAYS need it due to our Deafness. Not everybody has a computer or internet service. Not everybody can afford a computer. And some things require immediate communication, such as 911 or to make an appointment with a doctor if you are sick with something serious, or if somebody in your family dies, and you need to notify the rest of your family and the funeral home NOW to make funeral arrangements and such. Such things like this requires the use of the relay system since email is not quick. It's not like every single hearing person sits on their ass in front of the computer just waiting for every email to come in. They, like us, have things to do. They, like us, have jobs, have husbands, wives, children, we have obligations, errands, church, school, college, and the list goes on and on and on, there is not very much difference between the Hearing community and the Hearing world, other than that the Deaf people cannot hear.

Tippy, you obviously have no knowledge of the Deaf community and our culture and our need for the relay system. It's not like we can just pick up a phone and start flapping our lips and then hear the person on the other end talk to us. Most of us CANNOT HEAR THEM. Many of us CANNOT TALK. My fiance can talk, but he does not hear very well on the phone so his phone usage is only limited to very close family members whose voices he knows very well, otherwise he relies on the relay system or the videophone with VRS (which is still the relay system). I cannot talk except for a few words such as "Thank you" or "bathroom" to a total stranger and even then I am not always understood. I do have a cochlear implant, but I only got it two and a half years ago, and because I did not get it as a child and I did not hear very much for long before I lost all of my hearing, the cochlear implant was only beneficial for me for music only (which is fine with me - It allows me to play RockBand 2 which I LOVE), and nothing else. I can hear almost everything, but I can't understand speech and I can't identify most environmental sounds except for a few. Hence, I still have to rely on the relay system too. I was NOT raised oral like my fiance was. I can talk some, but not so well. You would have to have known me for several years and have become accustomed to my voice and my "deaf accent" and the way I say my words (like bad lisping). A total stranger on the street will not understand me other than the several words that I mentioned above. So, I really do need the relay system. It is so much easier to type than it is to try to talk to a stranger.

So, please understand that we do need the relay system and that it is not our fault that there are scammers. We did not invite the scammers to use our relay system. They found it out themselves. Blame them, not us.

 

[Tipppytoes]

Hello my friends, First of all, let me say that I am only referring to the audio relay system. On a video system, I would know who I'm talking to. Blaming me, the scammers or insulting me does not solve the problem it just sucks away your power. I am more than willing to support you as a business person & as part of the the hearing community. What I'm not willing to do is to take the lead. I have my own battles to fight like paying $275 to the city & then trying to get them to paint a blue line in front of my house (or at least not paint out the one I put there illegally), so I can get my wheelchair out of my car. Or earning the fines I have to pay because when I'm sick in bed my car is parked in front of my house for too long. Someone needs to pay for their yachts, you know & me & other disabled people are elected. Time is money. I need to use my time to fight my own battles& earn money to keep our city counsel in caviar. On a cost benefit analysis business wise, it is not profitable for me to answer audio relay calls the way things are set up now. I'm not going to take the introduction time when I receive too many relay calls from scammers & I daresay neither are other business people. I am not going to take the time if you aren't going to make the effort. I have told you on what basis I would take relay calls & I don't think that's too much to ask you to push for. I'm glad to hear that some of you fought & won the ADA.& I thank you for it. I'm saying its time to fight again. I'm giving it to you from a business owner's point of view. What you decide to do is up to you. It doesn't matter who's to blame. It just is. I'm bringing it to your attention from a business owner's point of view so you can do something about it or not. I think I should get some appreciation for bringing it to your attention rather than posting on the citizen's "how to cut gov't costs board" "Lets save money & cut the program". I came to you first to ask you if you value the program. BTW I also spend my volunteer social change time on Obama's citizen's healthcare program which has already passed legislation. This shows that one voice can make a difference. If you value your program it will be up to you to fight for it or not. My calender is full.
pls keep me posted & let me know if you decide to do anything about it or not. PUppy love from Tippytoes & furry folk

 

[LuciaDisturbed]

Hello my friends, First of all, let me say that I am only referring to the audio relay system. On a video system, I would know who I'm talking to. Blaming me, the scammers or insulting me does not solve the problem it just sucks away your power. I am more than willing to support you as a business person & as part of the the hearing community. What I'm not willing to do is to take the lead. I have my own battles to fight like paying $275 to the city & then trying to get them to paint a blue line in front of my house (or at least not paint out the one I put there illegally), so I can get my wheelchair out of my car. Or earning the fines I have to pay because when I'm sick in bed my car is parked in front of my house for too long. Someone needs to pay for their yachts, you know & me & other disabled people are elected. Time is money. I need to use my time to fight my own battles& earn money to keep our city counsel in caviar. On a cost benefit analysis business wise, it is not profitable for me to answer audio relay calls the way things are set up now. I'm not going to take the introduction time when I receive too many relay calls from scammers & I daresay neither are other business people. I am not going to take the time if you aren't going to make the effort. I have told you on what basis I would take relay calls & I don't think that's too much to ask you to push for. I'm glad to hear that some of you fought & won the ADA.& I thank you for it. I'm saying its time to fight again. I'm giving it to you from a business owner's point of view. What you decide to do is up to you. It doesn't matter who's to blame. It just is. I'm bringing it to your attention from a business owner's point of view so you can do something about it or not. I think I should get some appreciation for bringing it to your attention rather than posting on the citizen's "how to cut gov't costs board" "Lets save money & cut the program". I came to you first to ask you if you value the program. BTW I also spend my volunteer social change time on Obama's citizen's healthcare program which has already passed legislation. This shows that one voice can make a difference. If you value your program it will be up to you to fight for it or not. My calender is full.
pls keep me posted & let me know if you decide to do anything about it or not. PUppy love from Tippytoes & furry folk

Guess what? I am disabled too. I have hip dysplasia. I was born with it. I am currently fighting my doctors to get the damn surgeries I need. My stupid apartment management office has dismantled and removed our wheelchair ramp in front of the building and has not replaced it. I and one other tenant need it. You whine because you have a disability already, and don't wanna do anything to help us fight our battles. We will fight our battles, but we would like your help, we would like the hearing community's help. You don't want to help. Fine. We aren't asking you to take the lead. When did I ever say you need to take the lead? I never said that. I only said we would appreciate some help in this from the Hearing world. But you know what. You don't belong here if you think that because you're disabled already, you see no need to help us, that we should be on our own, etc. You know, that's insulting, coming from a disabled person to another disabled person. You're making me feel like that you're better than the rest of us because you're disabled, in a wheelchair, and are elected to office. Gee, thanks. And you're disabled. It's great that you spend your time on the social change time on Obama's citizen's healthcare program, though. You know how hard it is to get the city to paint a blue line in front of the house. Well, if you know that, you should also know that it's hard for us to get our damn calls to go through to businesses so we can get the things we need, but most of the times we get hung up on. I think the city charging you $275 to paint a blue line in front of house and the city refusing to do so is not fair, so perhaps you should be aware that it is not fair to us that you will not take our relay calls. Oh, and I don't give a damn about caviar. Your calender is full. Fine. But your attitude is not acceptable to me. I voted for Obama, too, because I want better things for ALL of us, not just Deaf people, but also the disabled people like you and me, and for people of color like me (I am Cherokee), and for so many other things. I have so many things to list that it would take up the entire page that are the reasons why I voted for Obama. In a nutshell, I voted for him because I wanted someone who would make a huge difference. Bush did not make a damn difference, and he did a terrible job, and left behind a huge mess.

Yes, we really do value our program. What makes you think we don't? We NEED it. If we lost that program, we would be SCREWED. Especially the Deaf people who do not have computer nor internet access (which they need in order to have a Videophone for video relay). Not everyone has the money to pay for internet access. I am on a fixed income and am lucky I am able to afford the lowest level of high speed internet speed (DSL) in order to have my videophone, but it will be useless if the power goes out and there is an emergency.

"My calender is full". That sounds like you're too busy to care about us. Gee. How nice. My calender is never too full to care about anybody. Even when I am not feeling very well a lot of the time due to the pain from my hip dysplasia. For the last week or so, I have had difficulty walking with ease because something new has happened with my hip that I don't know what it is, and my hip doctor is a quack who keeps saying that there is nothing wrong with the hip because nothing shows up on my x-rays, but the truth is that I have a 8-inch scar on my left hip from the two surgeries I had as a baby and then again as a toddler. I am 28, and am now at the point where I need another surgery, possibly a hip replacement surgery, to fix my hip. I am currently trying to find another doctor who actually cares, and who will take the time to look into what is really going on with my hip. It's been quite hard for me. You think I don't understand what being disabled is like? I do. And my hip dysplasia is not the only disability I have. I also have two injured discs in my lower back as well as PTSD and a few other things I do not wish to disclose here on this forum due to the nature of the disability.

Your post pretty much said: "too bad". That's how it feels like to me.

Perhaps you should leave this forum if you don't understand how hard it is for us Deaf people to communicate with the Hearing people and businesses and that it is not fair to us that you hearing people keep hanging up on us. You disgust me. This is one disabled person who is ALSO Deaf to another disabled person who is HEARING. :roll: