Do you like France?

Raven, do you realise that Chirac is one of the most hated presidents in France? Recently, the French rejected the European Constitution, and people think that it is because they hate the current administration, which were not really playing in the full interests of the French people. I wouldn't boycott France at all, just boycott the government.
 
kuifje75 said:
Raven, do you realise that Chirac is one of the most hated presidents in France? Recently, the French rejected the European Constitution, and people think that it is because they hate the current administration, which were not really playing in the full interests of the French people. I wouldn't boycott France at all, just boycott the government.

Exactly. It's the government, not the people. :)
 
Banjo said:
Exactly. It's the government, not the people. :)
Or both. Even the French blame the government, and the government blames the people:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/aug2003/heat-a22.shtml

France: More than 10,000 dead in record heat wave
By Francis Dubois
22 August 2003

The unprecedented heat wave in Europe has caused many deaths across the continent, but the highest number of victims has been in France, where illness and death have reached epidemic proportions.

While the full extent of the health disaster has still to emerge, the heavy death toll has led to a serious political crisis for the French government. At the beginning of this week, the number of deaths linked to the heat was estimated at 5,000, and this figure was, according to medical experts, likely to rise, since 50 percent of the deaths have occurred outside hospitals and are not yet accounted for.

France’s leading undertakers organisation reported on Thursday that as many as 13,000 may have died from exposure to the intense heat...

To cope with the growing number of bodies, the government of conservative Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin decided, on August 18, to open a central morgue in an old fruit and vegetable market in Rungis, south of Paris. The improvised mortuary can house up to 2,000 bodies.

This choice was a fitting symbol of the attitude of Raffarin and President Jacques Chirac. For the thousands who had lost relatives or friends, it had the effect of a further slap in the face.

The government ignored warnings by the meteorological office and failed to anticipate the consequences of the intense and prolonged heat in a country where few private homes or offices have air conditioning. It compounded its dereliction by refusing to take steps to cope with the crisis as it grew in urgency from day to day.

...the government remained totally passive. This led to an open conflict between various branches of the health system and the government over the developing disaster. In the second week of August the government was obliged to answer accusations of negligence and indifference.

...The government was put onto the defensive by the reaction its indifference provoked. It responded with a mixture of arrogance and ignorance.

Forced to break off his holiday on August 14, Raffarin initially blamed the mounting death toll on the public, denouncing families for leaving elderly relatives on their own and without help while they went on vacation.

Mattei made statements redolent of the infamous words of Marie Antoinette in 1789: “Let them eat cake!” He said in an interview that the reason so many old people were dying from the heat was that there were more of them around, as a result of rising life expectancy.

... A government official was quoted as demanding: “Are you saying the government’s role is to give bottles of water to babies on motorway service areas?”

In a crude attempt to bribe and soothe those who had to cope with the crisis—doctors, nurses and the staff of old people’s homes—Mattei promised a lump sum to staff who helped those suffering from the heat.

http://www.worldpress.org/Europe/1565.cfm
France Feels the Heat

A Heat Wave Turned Disasterous

John Lichfield, The Independent (liberal), London, England, Aug. 22, 2003

Kouchner is one of the founders of Doctors Without Borders and a former Socialist health minister. He might have been expected to lead the (partly deserved) lashing of the bungled and sluggish response of the center-right government of Jean-Pierre Raffarin. This was, after all, a government that came to power promising to be attentive to “the needs of ordinary people.”

... Kouchner has made two observations on the catastrophe ... First, if he and the left were still in power, they would probably have done no better. Second, the real cause of the calamity was a collision between something irresistible and exceptional—the weather—and something banal but utterly unmovable: the French obsession with holidays and their inalienable right, as a nation, all to go on holiday at the same time.

“We are all to blame,” Kouchner said, making himself even more unpopular than he already was with his Socialist colleagues.

All over France, hospital wards were closed down this month to allow staff to go on holiday...

Thousands of other old people, living at home but too infirm or too poor to go on holiday, found their apartment blocks or neighborhoods deserted. There were no relatives or neighbors to turn to for help. ...

How could this happen? The left (Kouchner apart) is blaming the government, which was, of course, on holiday.

... But the main point is Kouchner’s point: At holiday times, the coverage of the health-care system—declared by the United Nations to be the best in the world—is dangerously thin.

In the last Easter holidays, a close friend had to have an emergency operation on her eye. No state hospital in Paris could take her in during the holiday weekend. Admissions were allowed for life-or-death cases only. Saving the sight of an eye did not qualify. She had to have her operation done in the private (and expensive) American Hospital in the Paris suburbs. France is a nation of individualists who insist on the right, individually, to do the same thing as each other, at the same time, every year.

The August holidays, especially the first half of August, are considered sacred. ... In the longer run, nothing much is likely to change.
 
gnarlydorkette said:
US, under Bush Sr's presidency, did sell weapons to Al Queda and as well trained them to fight for their indepedence. So what can you say abt US now??

How Interesting!!

I didn't know about that!
 
Tamara said:
I am not heavy into politics stuff sorry to say!!

It is best to refrain from making blanket statements about anything if you state you are not into political debates. You just debunked yourself by making the quote here,

I am happy to say I am not Francophobia!

Yet you made a comment about the French people and France.

Did you know the French made and sold weapons to Saddam?.

I have learned it is best to back up such said comments with such said evidence.
 
Cookie Monster said:
It is best to refrain from making blanket statements about anything if you state you are not into political debates. You just debunked yourself by making the quote here,



Yet you made a comment about the French people and France.



I have learned it is best to back up such said comments with such said evidence.

I have asked the questions and made the comments to try and get a lively debate going as I am very interested in other peoples opinions on this matter and do not wish to solely beleive what I read in the papers.

If I said something to offend you I am sorry, but really no need to jump on me for trying to have an interesting conversation.

Beleive it or not I have actually learnt some new things about this conflict and sometimes by learning I do change my opinion.
 
Tamara said:
I have asked the questions and made the comments to try and get a lively debate going as I am very interested in other peoples opinions on this matter and do not wish to solely beleive what I read in the papers.

If I said something to offend you I am sorry, but really no need to jump on me for trying to have an interesting conversation.

Beleive it or not I have actually learnt some new things about this conflict and sometimes by learning I do change my opinion.

I am really glad you ask questions to get the answers you wish to know. Believe me, I am far from offended because as you may see in this forum, I love to debate. I believe we all learn from each other through debating as long as we stick through the "agree to disagree" philosophy. ;)
 
If everyone boycotted french products.The french would lose their jobs and blame chirac. If france should ever get invaded let say by russia we shouldnt lift a finger to help them.I know ronald reagan is in heaven but i bet he regreted ever saying these words. "" MR GORBACHEV TEAR DOWN THIS WALL"" He shouldnt never got involved of freeing germany too. I bet Schroder would never been president if east socialist germany still excisted.
 
France sounds like an interesting country. :) I like reading Liebling's and Kufie75's point of views about France. :)

So far, the only thing I knew about France is the Eiffell Tower, there is a city named "Nancy", and that Pepe Le Pew lives there (J/K). :)
 
Banjo said:
Without French's involvement in the American Revolution, America would never had been able to help France battle against Germany in World War I and II. The French helped pave America's path to becoming the world's most powerful country by allying with them in the revolution.

So your point is?

Well said Banjo! :thumb:

Reba´s post
Yes, America helped France against Germany in WWI and WWII.
Without America's help, France would never be here. Right?

Well, I am talking about 1770, not 1945. ;)

Well, Europeans do not say anything against America but Americans. Germans & other countries are grateful what Americans & other countries helped each other against Germany in WWII.

Why alway talk negative about France here?

Americans supposing to be grateful that they are here, without French´s help, they would of not be here.
 
kuifje75 said:
Raven, do you realise that Chirac is one of the most hated presidents in France? Recently, the French rejected the European Constitution, and people think that it is because they hate the current administration, which were not really playing in the full interests of the French people. I wouldn't boycott France at all, just boycott the government.

Well said!



It´s Government, not people...
 
Thank you Nancy, :thumb:

Well said Cookie Monster! :thumb:

Negative something in their posts could be offend to any people.
Agree to Disagree respectful are not offend to any people.

This is a difference :)
 
Well like i said,,,If we boycott french products and then french workers get hurt.Then french workers will lose their jobs and they will apply for french welfare might be just six frances a month. :twisted:
 
ravensteve1961 said:
Well like i said,,,If we boycott french products and then french workers get hurt.Then french workers will lose their jobs and they will apply for french welfare might be just six frances a month. :twisted:

:gives:
I am astonished to think that an educated man like you still think that the French people use French francs, and that if they had been using francs, that they would receive only 6 francs per month. (exchange rate just before the turnover to euros was about 7 francs to one US dollar).
 
ravensteve1961 said:
Well whatever,,They still use francs cause Chirac vetoed the euro.

ravensteve, it is best to provide such said evidence about such said quote because it shows credibility like Kootchie just did. He backed up his statement with links. It is my opinion if you do this, we would take you much more seriously.
 
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