Do you have a contingency plan?

sallylou said:
Jiro, don't forget to factor in the tax credit. It cuts down the expense.

Department of Energy - Tax Breaks
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That was factored in my post. after incentive and tax credit, it's still very expensive for many and you don't get benefit from it until decade(s) later. In fact - you may not even benefit from it at all. If you live in a trailer-like home or cabin in rural or middle of nowhere or live a very modest lifestyle, yes that'll work for you quite well. But for people like me in big city/suburb.... utterly useless. The energy consumption is high. If you have wind turbine + solar power + geothermal power together.... it's still not enough but if it is enough - you will benefit very little from it. The weather/environmental condition is not consistent enough to make it reliable all-season around and you'll have to worry about the maintenance/repair cost. It's simply not practical.

That's why we still have nuclear/coal/gas power plants. Nothing can beat its energy efficiency rate & cost to this date. I support even coal power plant but I support green technology as well. Right now - green technology is not ready for mass scale or heavy demand and it has much much more way to go. We still should continue to reduce our carbon footprint and practice environmental-friendly behavior.

Our old technology like coal and gas has already matured close to its maximum limit and with our latest cutting edge technology.... we can make our old technology cleaner and more efficient. For ie - in the past, coal plant was very filthy and you need tons of coal to power the big town. It was environmentally damaging as well. Now with our latest technology, our carbon footprint is significantly reduced and the coal power plant is much cleaner than before. for same amount of coal used in the past to power the big town, it can be efficient enough to power even a city-size.

At the same time - we should invest in green technology and gradually roll it out to general public. the ironic part about green technology is that even though solar power and wind turbine are zero-emission.... it does destroy the environment because you need to clear out a very large piece of land in order to power the town... something that a gas/coal power plant can do with a fraction of the required land.
 
Jiro said:
That was factored in my post. after incentive and tax credit, it's still very expensive for many and you don't get benefit from it until decade(s) later. In fact - you may not even benefit from it at all. If you live in a trailer-like home or cabin in rural or middle of nowhere or live a very modest lifestyle, yes that'll work for you quite well. But for people like me in big city/suburb.... utterly useless. The energy consumption is high. If you have wind turbine + solar power + geothermal power together.... it's still not enough but if it is enough - you will benefit very little from it. The weather/environmental condition is not consistent enough to make it reliable all-season around and you'll have to worry about the maintenance/repair cost. It's simply not practical.

That's why we still have nuclear/coal/gas power plants. Nothing can beat its energy efficiency rate & cost to this date. I support even coal power plant but I support green technology as well. Right now - green technology is not ready for mass scale or heavy demand and it has much much more way to go. We still should continue to reduce our carbon footprint and practice environmental-friendly behavior.

Our old technology like coal and gas has already matured close to its maximum limit and with our latest cutting edge technology.... we can make our old technology cleaner and more efficient. For ie - in the past, coal plant was very filthy and you need tons of coal to power the big town. It was environmentally damaging as well. Now with our latest technology, our carbon footprint is significantly reduced and the coal power plant is much cleaner than before. for same amount of coal used in the past to power the big town, it can be efficient enough to power even a city-size.

At the same time - we should invest in green technology and gradually roll it out to general public. the ironic part about green technology is that even though solar power and wind turbine are zero-emission.... it does destroy the environment because you need to clear out a very large piece of land in order to power the town... something that a gas/coal power plant can do with a fraction of the required land.
Click to expand...

Just saying you dont really know much about green power... ;)

But for heavy density metropolitan areas - they would need their own power plants..

For areas that has people and houses....
If every single one of them had a solar roof, the energy costs would just dwindle to next to nothing... (due to competition)

Solar panel prices has been going down at a rapid rate.

The fact it cost my friend $4000 after all the incentives to get his tidy power plant installed... and he saves 3,360 per year, PLUS gets paid for the difference of extra power at the end of the year.

So, in one year, he practically is paid.

It's not "Decades" as you put it, really.

But maybe I'm wasting my time talking because... this area where I live in.. has several very high incentive programs for the green power installed making it ultra cheap.

I dunno about NYC... All I have to say.. GL. Enjoy the 3mile island Power Plant.
 
posts from hell said:
Just saying you dont really know much about green power... ;)

But for heavy density metropolitan areas - they would need their own power plants..

For areas that has people and houses....
If every single one of them had a solar roof, the energy costs would just dwindle to next to nothing... (due to competition)

Solar panel prices has been going down at a rapid rate.

The fact it cost my friend $4000 after all the incentives to get his tidy power plant installed... and he saves 3,360 per year, PLUS gets paid for the difference of extra power at the end of the year.

So, in one year, he practically is paid.

It's not "Decades" as you put it, really.

But maybe I'm wasting my time talking because... this area where I live in.. has several very high incentive programs for the green power installed making it ultra cheap.

I dunno about NYC... All I have to say.. GL. Enjoy the 3mile island Power Plant.
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see bold text above plus post #717. The adoption of green technology by major or large metropolitan area would obviously have a significant effect on overall environmental program. Because of regulations, you need at least 1.5 acres (more or less) for wind turbine and solar panels on ground and for wind turbine - there is a regulation on height limit.

If a typical household for at least 4 family members in a suburb area like northern NJ or LA purchased solar panels for roof and battery system... after purchase cost + installation fee (typically over $15,000), they would benefit from it along with tax credit & incentive after at least 6 years or longer. To add headache to homeowner - you need to regularly clean your solar panels on roof to gain maximum amount of energy from sun.

So yea.... it's really dependent on where you live. This stuff is not going to work in my area especially for homes but we do have a handful of commercial buildings using wind turbine in NJ.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/business/energy-environment/27solar.html
 
Jiro said:
ah you posted it. I didn't have time to post it before leaving for DC. the shingle-version solar panel is made by Dow (Dow Solar Solutions).

The cost is unjustified because the average household is about 25 kW a day and solar panel is about 2 kW a day while home wind turbine produces up to 5 kW a day.
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Your numbers don't sound right to me. Where are you getting this iformation from if you don't mind.
 
rockdrummer said:
Your numbers don't sound right to me. Where are you getting this iformation from if you don't mind.
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I'm sure my number is off but not much. source from this site -

In 2007, the average monthly residential electricity consumption was 936 kilowatthours (kWh).
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so that means average about 30 kWh per day. in optimal condition - Solar Panel MAY provide up to 5 kWh per day but realistically for those living in area with all kinds of weathers and seasons like NJ... it is most likely up average around 1 kWh per day or perhaps... average 250 kWh per year.
 
Jiro said:
see bold text above plus post #717. The adoption of green technology by major or large metropolitan area would obviously have a significant effect on overall environmental program. Because of regulations, you need at least 1.5 acres (more or less) for wind turbine and solar panels on ground and for wind turbine - there is a regulation on height limit.

If a typical household for at least 4 family members in a suburb area like northern NJ or LA purchased solar panels for roof and battery system... after purchase cost + installation fee (typically over $15,000), they would benefit from it along with tax credit & incentive after at least 6 years or longer. To add headache to homeowner - you need to regularly clean your solar panels on roof to gain maximum amount of energy from sun.

So yea.... it's really dependent on where you live. This stuff is not going to work in my area especially for homes but we do have a handful of commercial buildings using wind turbine in NJ.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/business/energy-environment/27solar.html
Click to expand...

speaking of solar panel to be regularly clean... did you know there is new panels you can paint onto the top of it?
 
Jiro said:
I'm sure my number is off but not much. source from this site -

so that means average about 30 kWh per day. in optimal condition - Solar Panel MAY provide up to 5 kWh per day but realistically for those living in area with all kinds of weathers and seasons like NJ... it is most likely up average around 1 kWh per day or perhaps... average 250 kWh per year.
Click to expand...

Gosh, that's a lot of electricity to use in a month. I don't use anywhere near that much. Guess I'm good at conserving energy.
 
posts from hell said:
speaking of solar panel to be regularly clean... did you know there is new panels you can paint onto the top of it?
Click to expand...

wondering how much would this panel cost and what the efficiency rate is... :hmm:
 
Banjo said:
Gosh, that's a lot of electricity to use in a month. I don't use anywhere near that much. Guess I'm good at conserving energy.
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wait until you have a full house :lol:
 
Jiro said:
I'm sure my number is off but not much. source from this site -



so that means average about 30 kWh per day. in optimal condition - Solar Panel MAY provide up to 5 kWh per day but realistically for those living in area with all kinds of weathers and seasons like NJ... it is most likely up average around 1 kWh per day or perhaps... average 250 kWh per year.
Click to expand...

okay - We have been so sloppy. Let's understand some main things first:

A kilowatt hour is how many KW we used in AN HOUR to be exact.

If a light bulb is a 100 watt light bulb... You will use 100 watts over an hour making it .1 kwh.

And you said it.. 30kwh per day was the average.. Which I agree with.

I used 1.5kw... i should have said kwh. What I mean was...

1.5kwh per hour is the norm. my friends house uses 2.3 kwh per hour average during the day. His panels generate 9kwh per hour steady during the day with nice amount of sun hitting the panels.

Even that.. It tells me he can throw out all but 2 of his panel frames (He has 6). The resulting total size will be 10'x26' which will be sufficient to power an average house for the most part.

But really, I could say... The average steady consumption during the day is 1.5 kilowatts... and again apply this to the statement above.
 
Jiro said:
wait until you have a full house :lol:
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We paid around $120 for 2 months worth of electricity, the highest bill yet. I used up around 900kWh in 2 months. Probably the most we've used in a good while.

The lowest I've ever paid was around $45 for 2 months of electricity last year.
 
Few years ago, at my father's house, the electric bill was about $1800 per month. Since my father have indoor swimming pool, in-law apt and massive home theater and smart house system. So, year and half ago, my father decided to go ahead buy solar panels which cost about $250,000. Along with tax credit and other incentives, he will only have to pay around $180,000.
Once that project was complete, The electric bill dropped to between $700 to $800 per month. Plus he will earn money from electric company, I have no idea how much.

So you may see the pix of 4 huge solar panels, it's about 10' x 12', and will follow the sun directions.
 

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SneakerNet said:
Few years ago, at my father's house, the electric bill was about $1800 per month. Since my father have indoor swimming pool, in-law apt and massive home theater and smart house system. So, year and half ago, my father decided to go ahead buy solar panels which cost about $250,000. Along with tax credit and other incentives, he will only have to pay around $180,000.
Once that project was complete, The electric bill dropped to between $700 to $800 per month. Plus he will earn money from electric company, I have no idea how much.

So you may see the pix of 4 huge solar panels, it's about 10' x 12', and will follow the sun directions.
Click to expand...
Very nice.

I would love to have a whole-house solar power system but our lot is too shady. We use small solar units for outdoor lighting but it's rather weak. I like the solar generators that are available, too. I haven't given up on the idea yet. :)
 
Reba said:
Very nice.

I would love to have a whole-house solar power system but our lot is too shady. We use small solar units for outdoor lighting but it's rather weak. I like the solar generators that are available, too. I haven't given up on the idea yet. :)
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Yeah, I would love to get either wind turbine or water turbine (since I live near the river) after I replace all the high energy saving appliances. Refridgerator...Dish washer...done, heat pump...done.. only left are the microwave and stove. Solar panel will be useless for me since I live in the woods.

My father have 20,000 watts propane generator as a back up.
 
I've never thought about this. A contingency plan that is. I know for us, it will be hard, but I suppose we could do it. Living in town, we are at risk. MIL would not know how to live at all. I have often wondered what it would be like to live with no electricity (not due to having it shut off for non-payment), gas or things like that. I know I could handle the cooking. Hubby could handle the fishing and hunting (if he could get to the location). We would even be able to grow stuff. I would have to think more on this. Getting any money from the bank out of our accounts to begin with will be hard. We've all gotten too far away from hiding the money in a box under the bed or something like that.
 
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