Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

Bottesini said:
Didn't rolling7 say he volunteered for this? Making the answer yes.
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You are correct but I'm not the only volunteer. CRR (Career Recovery and Resource) is an organization supported by United Way and donations with a wide range of coherent classes for the deaf (i.e. computer, English, math, reading, drivers ed., etc)
The director (a CDI) and assistance director (a CID) as well as all volunteer instructors are ASL
 
rolling7 said:
You are correct but I'm not the only volunteer. CRR (Career Recovery and Resource) is an organization supported by United Way and donations with a wide range of coherent classes for the deaf (i.e. computer, English, math, reading, drivers ed., etc)
The director (a CDI) and assistance director (a CID) as well as all volunteer instructors are ASL
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Ok then John's decision not to take the opportunity is all because of who he is, not because of ASL.
 
Shel, your sentence about the "quiet deaf student..." reminds me of - me - a quiet, actually somewhat shy child who sat for years in math classes, <and in lower grades, on the playground in relation to sporting activities> confused and trying to figure out what was going on, looking around at the other students and trying to somehow "get it" by looking at them, or seeing what magic they might be using that I didn't have.

And I remember staring at a clock that made no sense, trying to look like I knew what I was doing and figure out some way to pass the time as I waited for my speech teacher to finally come to get me - when she would finally realize that I wasn't going to go down to that building where they stuck us in Special Ed .....I wasn't going to go down there to meet her like she wanted me to cuz I couldn't read the clock. And I was too shy and embarrassed to have explained that to her when she brought up the idea.

And I remember staring at math tests with no clue at all what that was all about, thinking of the lessons that I had been present for and that the exam was supposed to test us on -but the lessons had been so much "blah-blah-blah", like the Charlie Brown cartoons - I knew stuff was coming out of the teacher's mouth, but it made no sense.
 
"Statement": Hearing people oppress the deaf.. Mentioned many times here.

"statement" Hearing people do not oppress the deaf.

Simple question: can both statements be true at the same time?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
"Statement": Hearing people oppress the deaf.. Mentioned many times here.

"statement" Hearing people do not oppress the deaf.

Simple question: can both statements be true at the same time?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
"Statement": Hearing people oppress the deaf.. Mentioned many times here.

"statement" Hearing people do not oppress the deaf.

Simple question: can both statements be true at the same time?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
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Yes
drphil said:
"Statement": Hearing people oppress the deaf.. Mentioned many times here.

"statement" Hearing people do not oppress the deaf.

Simple question: can both statements be true at the same time?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
Click to expand...

Yes
 
This is why I believe sign-language should be used more and more in public. It gives the d/Deaf proper access to cognitive skills and comprehension.

As for reading and writing, although it is does make it easier all round to have that skill in general society, however, with multi-cultural situations all around the world, visual gestures always come into play wherever we may be or whatever the situation we find ourselves in.

Therefore, more exposure and more recognition should be given to sign languages around the world. It actually takes less effort for someone (hearing or deaf) to figure out what is being expressed in sign language than for a d/Deaf person to figure out spoken language. Like I have said many a time before, only a small percentage of communication is spoken. The majority of communication is visual via facial expression and body language. Sign language gives the ultimate dimension and depth to expression in communication. The more exposure it is given, the more the general public will recognise this.
 
shel90 said:
Then, it becomes an ugly and vicious cycle...people start blaming the deaf schools for children who have poor literacy skills without really finding out why..just automatically equate....deaf schools= poor literacy skills.
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In 5th grade, I tested at 9th grade level for reading. Kindergarten for writing. My mother said reading what I wrote such as short stories was like seeing exactly on paper what I was not hearing people say. I didn't hear grammar consistently nor verb tenses and I would go off on tangents instead of being consistent, stringing one sentence to the next. Yet I had impeccable spelling.

Reading books were hugely instrumental in getting my writing and grammar skills up to speed.
 
shel90 said:
Ok then John's decision not to take the opportunity is all because of who he is, not because of ASL.
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While I WANT to agree with you, I can't. The reason being is there are John so say "I'm deaf, I'm ASL and I don't need anything else" I'll be the first there are few but on the other hand there is always, and always will be a struggle to get people off this very position. I want to be fair and say that more than half of the deaf who become a client of CRR, when they do their evaluation they are resistance to going beyond ASL. By that I mean the have to be pressured into understanding the n needed to take classes they are resistant to. The fact that they seem to think they can get by with only ASL is much like the hearing who think they can get by with just speaking.
Just like these hearing folks that go on American Idol or You Think You Can Dance and expect to either win our get noticed, they all can't win and they have a false sense of security. For some deaf, they have the same problem, a false sense of security that ASL is all they need.
 
I am hearing.

As a kid all I wanted to do was learn learn learn. I enjoyed learning. I read every thing I could get my hands on. The teachers did not teach me to read. My mother did -- And she was yelled at because I could read better than anyone else.

I came to the conclusion the schools were not there for me. They were there to destroy me and anybody like me.

There is no place in the American School System for anyone who is not a jock.
 
Berry said:
I am hearing.

As a kid all I wanted to do was learn learn learn. I enjoyed learning. I read every thing I could get my hands on. The teachers did not teach me to read. My mother did -- And she was yelled at because I could read better than anyone else.

I came to the conclusion the schools were not there for me. They were there to destroy me and anybody like me.

There is no place in the American School System for anyone who is not a jock.
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Don't say that. Some public schools don't suck. I was never a jock (I don't even like watching sports, lol), and I found a place in my schools because I was halfway decent at many things, and really really good at one thing (computers), and I had some teachers who didn't absolutely suck who took that skill and passion and directed it towards succeeding and simultaneously helping others (via demonstrations, teaching them, etc).

Of course, I was in a Montessori school in the local public schools, so I'm aware that I was lucky not to get dumped in <generic public school #33821> and to have teachers who didn't suck.
 
StSapphire said:
Don't say that. Some public schools don't suck. I was never a jock (I don't even like watching sports, lol), and I found a place in my schools because I was halfway decent at many things, and really really good at one thing (computers), and I had some teachers who didn't absolutely suck who took that skill and passion and directed it towards succeeding and simultaneously helping others (via demonstrations, teaching them, etc).

Of course, I was in a Montessori school in the local public schools, so I'm aware that I was lucky not to get dumped in <generic public school #33821> and to have teachers who didn't suck.
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Right I agree...

the public schools I went to were some of the best in the Phx area but it wasnt the least restrictive environment for me to be in. It was the total opposite.
 
I have been wanting to bring this up somewhere for some time and am still not sure where the best place to do so is. But here goes!

I have almost no knowledge of ASL (tried taking it as a beginning night course from my local jr. college twice but made no contacts to use it with and thus have forgotten what little I learned) but my impression is that it is so different from English as to be a different language. Could that be a major reason for having trouble to then learn to read and write English using the grammar that the hearing population expects?

Just in case my background makes any difference. I lost my hearing in the left ear at the age of 5 when an infection affected the nerve rather than cause the type of damage infection usually does (any way that was the conclusion of Dr. John Shea some 40 years later). I am now 68. None was noticed in the right ear until almost that long (about 30 yrs.). I use a hearing aid in the right ear and was told by Dr. Shea that he thought I was able to get at least 40% of a conversation from lip reading (that was still the common term in 1985). Because you can’t lip read on the phone and my hearing in the right ear had decreased enough that I could not depend on sound alone, I have used a TTY and the relay service ever since it became available in the early ’90s. I first came to this site after getting tired of how many repairs I was having with a handheld TTY to use with a cell phone and Google led me here.
 
Jane B. said:
I have been wanting to bring this up somewhere for some time and am still not sure where the best place to do so is. But here goes!

I have almost no knowledge of ASL (tried taking it as a beginning night course from my local jr. college twice but made no contacts to use it with and thus have forgotten what little I learned) but my impression is that it is so different from English as to be a different language. Could that be a major reason for having trouble to then learn to read and write English using the grammar that the hearing population expects?

Just in case my background makes any difference. I lost my hearing in the left ear at the age of 5 when an infection affected the nerve rather than cause the type of damage infection usually does (any way that was the conclusion of Dr. John Shea some 40 years later). I am now 68. None was noticed in the right ear until almost that long (about 30 yrs.). I use a hearing aid in the right ear and was told by Dr. Shea that he thought I was able to get at least 40% of a conversation from lip reading (that was still the common term in 1985). Because you can’t lip read on the phone and my hearing in the right ear had decreased enough that I could not depend on sound alone, I have used a TTY and the relay service ever since it became available in the early ’90s. I first came to this site after getting tired of how many repairs I was having with a handheld TTY to use with a cell phone and Google led me here.
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Studies have shown that deaf children of Deaf families achieve higher literacy rates due to having full access to language during their formative years while deaf children of hearing parents usually dont.
 
Jane B. said:
I have almost no knowledge of ASL (tried taking it as a beginning night course from my local jr. college twice but made no contacts to use it with and thus have forgotten what little I learned) but my impression is that it is so different from English as to be a different language.
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It literally is a distinct language. Look around online and read up on the history of ASL, it's not even originally based on English, it's based on a French sign language and the sign language of Martha's Vineyard. So it doesn't just "seem" that way, it is a linguistically distinct language, as distinct as English and German are.

Jane B. said:
Could that be a major reason for having trouble to then learn to read and write English using the grammar that the hearing population expects?
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Sort of. If someone teaching English isn't fluent in ASL, then you'll get rather choppy-sounding ASL (look for the "ASL Only!" thread in one of the forums here to see what the direct translations of ASL to English would somewhat look like - it's about the same as running a translation through Google Translate). However, if you teach English simultaneously with ASL at a young age, children are able to pick up both ASL and English simultaneously. Bilingualism (and more) is much easier for children who have been immersed with both languages from an extremely young age.
 
DeafCaroline said:
If they were so resistant, why were they in those classes to begin with?
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The best use of the resources of CRR is to make sure the client is capable of using them. In the situation of job placement, it is necessary to not only evaluate the skill and ability that the client has but also educational and communication abilities. CRR has many business partners, some very well known companies, that require a certain level of knowledge and skill for the position and, obviously, CRR want the deaf client to be as prepared as possible. Don't y think I'm hating on the deaf because I do know hearing that do this same thing, the person feels that they just need to show up, fill out an application, maybe take a drug test and go to work for a pay check.
This takes me back almost 40 years ago to where 238 deaf were hired for the Houston post office, within month more than half were gone. Because they were ASL-only, and many were in those days? No, out was because they had no life skills.
Self-discipline? What is that?? Never heard off it! Money management? What is that?? Never heard of it!
So certainly anyone can see the necessity of preparing the whole being which is what CRR strives to do. And certainly anyone can entertains the resistance to all the necessary requirements placed on a client because the deaf AND the hearing would rather take the easy way out. I myself had only the positions in my life, a groundskeeper during high school, a clerk in a bank and 38 years in the U.S.P.S.and I'm comfortable retired now. Yes, YES, YES I do credit and give thanks to having the necessary life skills to survive in this world. And YES, YES, YES I do know that today there are those, both deaf and hearing, that have not been privileged to acquire these necessary life skills (don't get me started on those who have and then wasted their life), for these purple there are FREE resource and opportunities of assistance. Sadly many will ignore them our try them out and then decide "its tooooooooo hard, its tooooooooo much trouble."
 
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