DirecTV Charges for Closed Captions

SouthFella said:
WOW the confusion. And it is a simple thing to fix .. oh well
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You’ll be amazing how many people out there are ignorant on technology.
 
smrvb said:
My husband is profoundly deaf, and we always have used captions on our TV. We recently decided on getting a newer TV, which recommended using higer quality cables to get the best picture. The instructions told us that we would then need to access closed captions from our set box from DirecTV. After over two hours on the phone with DirecTV, I learned the ONLY WAY to get access was to upgrade our subscription to HD (which we were not asking for) and pay a fee for the new set box as well as a monthly subscription. After the lengthy call, they attempted to make some credits for the costs, but we would still need to pay for simply getting captions. I have cancelled my subscription as a result. I simply wanted others to be aware of our experience.
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Many people are not aware that it is often possible to get NTSC, Line 21, analog closed caption data through component video cables, which will provide the best picture quality for standard definition video. (However, when using a DVD player, it is essential to turn off progressive scanning and upconversion in order for the TV to be able to decode the Line 21 caption data. Some HDTVs, like some Samsung HDTVs, also do not provide decoding of analog caption data through component video inputs.)

A DirecTV user with a new digital TV thus may not *have* to upgrade to HD service from DirecTV. The user can try using the best analog video connection possible from the set top box that will also transmit closed caption data. The analog connections are listed below in descending order of picture quality:

Component (best)
S-video
Composite
RF (worst)

No HDTV will be able to get the best picture quality possible by using a set-top box that is designed to provide standard definition (SD) programming at only 480i. If you want the best picture quality, then you generally have to pay more for HD service from the pay TV service provider (1080i) whenever you're required to use a set-top box (as is the case with satellite service). (Cable company customers may be able to get some HD channels by plugging the cable directly into their HDTV, however.)

Unfortunately, some HDTVs that don't have analog tuners may not decode Line 21, analog closed caption data; they may only decode ATSC closed caption data that are received directly via antenna or cable. It's possible that the kind of TV that was purchased by the OP lacks an analog, NTSC tuner, (and possibly a decoder for NSTC analog captions) and cannot decode NTSC analog captions sent via set-top boxes. The DTV may be able to decode only ATSC CEA-608 and ATSC CEA-708 caption data that are received via the RF input. This (unnecessary) inadequacy would be due to the design of the TV, which isn't currently required by the FCC to be fully accessible, and this would not be the fault of DirecTV or other pay TV service providers.

Unfortunately, the FCC and consumer organizations appear to have overlooked the need to require digital TVs to decode NTSC CEA-608 (analog) caption data on analog video inputs. The FCC is requiring pay TV service providers to transmit analog caption data to old analog TVs but hasn't made sure that new TVs will have the capability of decoding that data on the analog inputs (which is also important for backwards compatibility with VCRs, DVRs and DVD players). In my opinion, the FCC needs to be told to require a) all future set top boxes to decode all available caption data and b) all new DTVs to be able to decode NTSC caption data on all analog inputs.

For consumers who need captions, one way of getting around this problem for now is to purchase DTVs that have both analog (NTSC) and digital (ATSC) tuners since those TVs have to be able to decode both NTSC and ATSC caption data and they would be more likely to decode NTSC captions on the analog inputs. It's also important to check out the capability of the TV to decode caption data on all these inputs within 15 days after buying the TV, though.

There *may* be some DTVs that have only a digital tuner which can still decode NTSC caption data on the analog inputs, but if there are, people and companies need to let us know about them.


Dana
 
GadgetQueen said:
Many people are not aware that it is often possible to get NTSC, Line 21, analog closed caption data through component video cables, which will provide the best picture quality for standard definition video. (However, when using a DVD player, it is essential to turn off progressive scanning and upconversion in order for the TV to be able to decode the Line 21 caption data. Some HDTVs, like some Samsung HDTVs, also do not provide decoding of analog caption data through component video inputs.)
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That's a common problem with some HDTVs not offering CC as an option on component video inputs when people are in fact able to get CC through component cables as long it is in the interlaced mode, not progressive mode. It's rather perplexing why they would leave that option out on some HDTVs. I know ViewSonic is one of them too.

It's quite a pain in the neck that we have to keep fighting for equal access all of the times. It's a neverending battle. The HDMI technology is now a new battle to fight to gain equal access.

Ugh.
 
Banjo said:
That's a common problem with some HDTVs not offering CC as an option on component video inputs when people are in fact able to get CC through component cables as long it is in the interlaced mode, not progressive mode. It's rather perplexing why they would leave that option out on some HDTVs. I know ViewSonic is one of them too.

It's quite a pain in the neck that we have to keep fighting for equal access all of the times. It's a neverending battle. The HDMI technology is now a new battle to fight to gain equal access.

Ugh.
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Banjo, I'd really like to know what other TVs aren't decoding captions through the component inputs. Was it your personal experience that Viewsonic HDTVs don't decode captions on the component inputs, or did you see that somewhere else? Do you know what models of Viewsonic HDTV had these deficits?

Reply comments to the FCC are due tomorrow about digital captioning, so specific information could be included in the reply comments if we can verify this on the Viewsonic web site. (I did that for a Samsung plasma HDTV, for example, in my own comment.)

Dana
 
Sorry for off topic.... I was wonder is there way to get Blu-ray player to support CC? not only subtitles.
 
Yes it amazes me how the FCC overlooks CC, and where is the D/deaf nazi when we need them ???? hmmmm
 
SouthFella said:
Yes it amazes me how the FCC overlooks CC, and where is the D/deaf nazi when we need them ???? hmmmm
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FCC is just offers basic needs for deaf people, there's no law and FCC couldn't make any regulation with CC situation over HDMI.

It's up to congress to consider any new bill, you need call to your CONGRESSMEN.
 
Foxrac said:
FCC is just offers basic needs for deaf people, there's no law and FCC couldn't make any regulation with CC situation over HDMI.

It's up to congress to consider any new bill, you need call to your CONGRESSMEN.
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Well, HDMI should support CC look at those Cable box and Tivo they were used with HDMI and CC working fine. Plus CC not support on Blu-ray it will make Blu-ray look bad! I already own Blu-ray Player myself. Now my roommate think Blu-ray player sucks it because it doesn't support CC I gonna need prove them wrong.
 
BartSimpsx24x said:
Well, HDMI should support CC look at those Cable box and Tivo they were used with HDMI and CC working fine. Plus CC not support on Blu-ray it will make Blu-ray look bad! I already own Blu-ray Player myself. Now my roommate think Blu-ray player sucks it because it doesn't support CC I gonna need prove them wrong.
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The problem is that the law does not require them to put in CC chip in players that outputs in HDMI. The companies chooses not to put chip in cause of $$$. However, Tivo and some cableboxes are willing to take time and $$ to put CC chips in them which we all should support those companies if we can for being there for us and boycot the others that puts $$ ahead of doing what is right for us.
 
Secretblend said:
The problem is that the law does not require them to put in CC chip in players that outputs in HDMI. The companies chooses not to put chip in cause of $$$. However, Tivo and some cableboxes are willing to take time and $$ to put CC chips in them which we all should support those companies if we can for being there for us and boycot the others that puts $$ ahead of doing what is right for us.
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Well they should require chip in every player!
 
BartSimpsx24x said:
Well they should require chip in every player!
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Agreed! Sadly they chose to not to do that unless they are told to by government. They put $$$ ahead of doing what is right for us Deafs. Sad isn't it??

However, that is why we should support those that did right by us of their own choice and boycott those that put $$ ahead of doing what's right.
 
smrvb said:
My husband is profoundly deaf, and we always have used captions on our TV. We recently decided on getting a newer TV, which recommended using higer quality cables to get the best picture. The instructions told us that we would then need to access closed captions from our set box from DirecTV. After over two hours on the phone with DirecTV, I learned the ONLY WAY to get access was to upgrade our subscription to HD (which we were not asking for) and pay a fee for the new set box as well as a monthly subscription. After the lengthy call, they attempted to make some credits for the costs, but we would still need to pay for simply getting captions.
I have cancelled my subscription as a result. I simply wanted others to be aware of our experience.
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I am disagree with you. I believe you are misunderstand, Directv tried to tell you to update the new box for decoders built in. So fee for new box and HD. I own Directv for 2 years and my box have decoder built-in and HD. It's work GREAT.
 
GadgetQueen said:
Banjo, I'd really like to know what other TVs aren't decoding captions through the component inputs. Was it your personal experience that Viewsonic HDTVs don't decode captions on the component inputs, or did you see that somewhere else? Do you know what models of Viewsonic HDTV had these deficits?

Reply comments to the FCC are due tomorrow about digital captioning, so specific information could be included in the reply comments if we can verify this on the Viewsonic web site. (I did that for a Samsung plasma HDTV, for example, in my own comment.)

Dana
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Well, ViewSonic 37" N3752W LCD HDTV is the one that I had some experiences with. The cable and composite video inputs offered the option of decoding CC while the component and HDMI video inputs didn't. It's not possible to do it with the HDMI video input at all though.

Sorry for the late reply. I was gone for a few days. Oh well.
 
Banjo said:
Well, ViewSonic 37" N3752W LCD HDTV is the one that I had some experiences with. The cable and composite video inputs offered the option of decoding CC while the component and HDMI video inputs didn't. It's not possible to do it with the HDMI video input at all though.

Sorry for the late reply. I was gone for a few days. Oh well.
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Just to doublecheck, did you make sure progressive scanning and upconversion (like from a DVD player) was turned off? It's not possible for captions to show up via the HDTV if it's put into progressive scanning mode---I think there's no vertical blanking interval available then into which to insert the captions. (I can't say I fully understand the technology, but I do know an HDTV can't decode captions if it's forced into the progressive scanning mode at the same time.)

Dana
 
JMH said:
You’ll be amazing how many people out there are ignorant on technology.
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It's like cars. I have a faint idea of how an internal combustion engine works, but I want to be able to just turn a key and drive. I don't need to know about the innards under the hood. If something goes wrong, I get someone to fix it.

Same with the TV. I want to turn it on, and hopefully have a remote control that doesn't have more teeny tiny buttons than the space shuttle. Those of us over the age of 30 remember when our TVs got three or four channels. Now we're expected to know what S-cables and routers are, and what is compatible with HDTVs and what isn't. :hmm: I think I'll read a book and use my TV for DVDs. :D
 
FCC can and does fine companies for not being compatible. CC chip I am sure is very very cheap. And cheaper than a lawsuit .
 
GadgetQueen said:
Just to doublecheck, did you make sure progressive scanning and upconversion (like from a DVD player) was turned off? It's not possible for captions to show up via the HDTV if it's put into progressive scanning mode---I think there's no vertical blanking interval available then into which to insert the captions. (I can't say I fully understand the technology, but I do know an HDTV can't decode captions if it's forced into the progressive scanning mode at the same time.)

Dana
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There is no mention of CC in the menu at all when it's in the component video input. I am aware of the fact that we cannot get CC if it's in progressive mode unless you use a DVD player that has a CC decoder built in.
 
*crawling out of lurking mode*

flyingace said:
It's like cars. I have a faint idea of how an internal combustion engine works, but I want to be able to just turn a key and drive. I don't need to know about the innards under the hood. If something goes wrong, I get someone to fix it.

Same with the TV. I want to turn it on, and hopefully have a remote control that doesn't have more teeny tiny buttons than the space shuttle. Those of us over the age of 30 remember when our TVs got three or four channels. Now we're expected to know what S-cables and routers are, and what is compatible with HDTVs and what isn't. :hmm: I think I'll read a book and use my TV for DVDs. :D
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There's nothing wrong with that. ;)
 
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