Differences between SEE/PSE/ASL

Sheila said:
Not ALL signs are ASL signs initialized in SEE, but it is a trademark that ASL tries to eliminate.

SEE sign makes up signs too! What about DIET? (Non-dominant hand closed-5, palm out in front of the mouth, dominant hand D-shape, movement like EAT)



Don't do that! It's just opinion. If it helps someone learn, great! If it hinders language development, try something else.

as a side story: One of my teachers in my IPP (She was born profoundly deaf) first learned SEE. In her school, they would always sign CUT IT OUT to her. She didn't realize until she was 10 that CUT IT OUT in English meant "Stop it." That is where I see the problem. Misunderstandings like that can take years to resolve.

It's obviously not my system of choice, but if that's what's comfy for you, great! You are an adult and can make your language decision for yourself without feeling ashamed or offended.
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Absolutely. Even when using English syntax, you must use the ASL sign theat matches the concept, not the word.
 
When I was mainstreamed and learning sign, one of my teachers had the bright idea to have us sign in a circle at the beginning of the sentence. The idea here was to improve on our capitalizing skills in writing. Thus I'd sign the sign for the in a circle. I unlearned this very quickly at VSDB in Staunton.
 
I was taught that these various signing methods exist in a continuum, with SEE at one extreme, PSE somewhere in the middle, and ASL at the other extreme. It's been my experience that deafies sign with a mixture -- even those deafies who've signed all their lives. So, you'll sometimes see an ASL signer initialize certain signs (a SEE characteristic) to make it clear which connotation they're trying to convey (deafies are not dumb.... they understand that two English words which transliterate to a single sign often have different connotations, and they'll initialize the sign if they're communicating with hearie. That's just good translation -- they're creating a culturally contexted interpretation). What you usually do not see is an ASL signer using those -ing -ed things from SEE... those are definitely invented, and unnatural for native signers.
 
Calphool said:
I was taught that these various signing methods exist in a continuum, with SEE at one extreme, PSE somewhere in the middle, and ASL at the other extreme. It's been my experience that deafies sign with a mixture -- even those deafies who've signed all their lives. So, you'll sometimes see an ASL signer initialize certain signs (a SEE characteristic) to make it clear which connotation they're trying to convey (deafies are not dumb.... they understand that two English words which transliterate to a single sign often have different connotations, and they'll initialize the sign if they're communicating with hearie. That's just good translation -- they're creating a culturally contexted interpretation). What you usually do not see is an ASL signer using those -ing -ed things from SEE... those are definitely invented, and unnatural for native signers.
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Granted, a lot of the deafies I know code switch. When communicating with hearing signers, they will adopt a more English sytax that closely resembles PSE, but when communicating with other deafies, or hearing native signers, will use ASL.
 
BearBeauty said:
I don't want to, but I hear so many opinions that ASL is better than SEE or PSE, And frankly it can make me so mad at times. What happened to accepting others, accepting differences? So one person understands PSE more than ASL, shouldn't we allow that person to use what they understand instead of try to force them to use what will confuse them?

I mean, I've seen a vlog where someone took a bunch of books related to SEE, removed them from the Language section, and put them in Humor? THat's rude and inconsiderate.
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What would you think of this: Hola. Como are you?this is known as spanglish. It's not english, it,s not spanish It's not a native tongue. Same SEE and SE and PSE. It is contact signing used to bridge the communication gap between two different languages. I think if you really took the time to learn asl, (I am 41 and a hearie and learned PSE when I was ten, but started learning ASL a year and a half ago) you would see the superiority of ASL for the deaf compared to a linear auditory language such as english. ASL is so crystal clear in conveyance yet so beautifully intricate in structure like a beautiful snowflake so simple yet intricate. I think many deaf are under the impression and hearies can be blamed for this impression, that for the deaf to be intelligent, they must speak perfect english and write perfect english and look like a hearie. I met this woman at a supermarket and I saw she had a hearing aid and I heard her deaf accent, I signed to her are you deaf? She said yes I am but I don't sign. I speak and I went to college and got a BA and as far as I am concerned, I as good as a hearie. And she made me feel really stupid cause I am a hearie and I don't have a BA and I do sign alot and I love deaf culture. If I was deaf I would be proud to be deaf because intelligence isn't based on learning a foreign language which is what english is to the deaf. ASL is the deaf's native language. I wish it were mine. I find it much more interesting than english. Really, if your happy with SEE, then I am happy for you but suppose you were to learn ASL, and understood it, you would be so amazed at how clear it is. Deaf take in their information visually and spatially and asl matches that. But english is linear and it leaves out so much richness and clarity. I truly understand why deaf prefer ASL I really do. I didn't up to a year and a half ago and until you take the time to really study ASL you won't fully appreciate it.
 
robbielyn said:
What would you think of this: Hola. Como are you?this is known as spanglish. It's not english, it,s not spanish It's not a native tongue. Same SEE and SE and PSE. It is contact signing used to bridge the communication gap between two different languages. I think if you really took the time to learn asl, (I am 41 and a hearie and learned PSE when I was ten, but started learning ASL a year and a half ago) you would see the superiority of ASL for the deaf compared to a linear auditory language such as english. ASL is so crystal clear in conveyance yet so beautifully intricate in structure like a beautiful snowflake so simple yet intricate. I think many deaf are under the impression and hearies can be blamed for this impression, that for the deaf to be intelligent, they must speak perfect english and write perfect english and look like a hearie. I met this woman at a supermarket and I saw she had a hearing aid and I heard her deaf accent, I signed to her are you deaf? She said yes I am but I don't sign. I speak and I went to college and got a BA and as far as I am concerned, I as good as a hearie. And she made me feel really stupid cause I am a hearie and I don't have a BA and I do sign alot and I love deaf culture. If I was deaf I would be proud to be deaf because intelligence isn't based on learning a foreign language which is what english is to the deaf. ASL is the deaf's native language. I wish it were mine. I find it much more interesting than english. Really, if your happy with SEE, then I am happy for you but suppose you were to learn ASL, and understood it, you would be so amazed at how clear it is. Deaf take in their information visually and spatially and asl matches that. But english is linear and it leaves out so much richness and clarity. I truly understand why deaf prefer ASL I really do. I didn't up to a year and a half ago and until you take the time to really study ASL you won't fully appreciate it.
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To clear up my posts, I do not sign SEE, I sign PSE. What i have a problem with is some people calling SEE a joke or assuming SEE changes signs that are normally used in ASL. That's my problem. I used SEE until I was in middle school. Then I switched to PSE. I never went to a formal classroom to learn ASL or SEE. I learned from interpreters, other students, and imersing myself in the deaf school community near my hometown.

And to be honest, I don't want to be a hearie. I read and write perfect english because I choose to, not to be a "perfect hearie". I am always in the hearing world, and frankly, I don't mind being there. I am fully appregicative of ASL, I'm just frustrated with People's lack of understanding of SEE. I know ASL, can sign it if i have to. Yes, I know there are deaf people who grew up oral and choose not to sign. I grew up oral and choose to sign.

You made assumptions that I don't understand ASL, I do understand it.
 
I agree with Robbyln...I never appreciated and understood how superior ASL is until I became fluent in it. I was like WOW!!!! It is such a beautiful language and so crystal clear in conceptual information. That's why I don't understand why people prefer to use coded systems instead of ASL in the educational settings to young deaf children. Language is used when teaching hearing children all over the world so why not for deaf children? Why should deaf children have some invented system used in the educational setting or as a language model when acquiring language?

My aide who workls with me in my summer teaching job is hearing and is very very SEE...I feel so much more tired after my summer teaching job even though it is only 4 hours of work a day as opposed to working 8 hours a day. I didn't feel this tired from my regular job cuz I and others use ASL all day but with this job, I find myself using SEE cuz of my aide and I feel so mentally worn out. I am telling u, I just cannot imagine using SEE with my students ..they wud become restless and so bored, resulting in more behavior problems.

PSE is better than SEE but ASL tops it all!
 
BearBeauty said:
I don't want to, but I hear so many opinions that ASL is better than SEE or PSE, And frankly it can make me so mad at times. What happened to accepting others, accepting differences? So one person understands PSE more than ASL, shouldn't we allow that person to use what they understand instead of try to force them to use what will confuse them?

I mean, I've seen a vlog where someone took a bunch of books related to SEE, removed them from the Language section, and put them in Humor? THat's rude and inconsiderate.
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I don'tthink its so much a matter of one being good and the other bad, but that they serve different purposes. And the attempt to combinethe aspects of an auditory langauge and a visual language creates confusion in processing.
 
shel90 said:
I agree with Robbyln...I never appreciated and understood how superior ASL is until I became fluent in it. I was like WOW!!!! It is such a beautiful language and so crystal clear in conceptual information. That's why I don't understand why people prefer to use coded systems instead of ASL in the educational settings to young deaf children. Language is used when teaching hearing children all over the world so why not for deaf children? Why should deaf children have some invented system used in the educational setting or as a language model when acquiring language?

My aide who workls with me in my summer teaching job is hearing and is very very SEE...I feel so much more tired after my summer teaching job even though it is only 4 hours of work a day as opposed to working 8 hours a day. I didn't feel this tired from my regular job cuz I and others use ASL all day but with this job, I find myself using SEE cuz of my aide and I feel so mentally worn out. I am telling u, I just cannot imagine using SEE with my students ..they wud become restless and so bored, resulting in more behavior problems.

PSE is better than SEE but ASL tops it all!
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SEE and PSE are useful, as Robbielynn said, for bridging communicaiton gaps. But, for PSE to be useful as a pidgin language, it also has to be assumed that the signer also knows English. Otherwise, it is syntactically confusing. And that is where the problem comes in for deaf kids. You cannot presnt conceptual information in a confusing format if you expect them to acquire language. And it is not only more tiring to process, but more tiroing to sign, too. It is more tiring becaue there is a process of mental interpretation involved....PSE has to be first converted to actual English, and then to ASL for comprehension. The brain has to make an extra step in processing, and essentially, act as a terp.
 
Your post about the difference between SEE1, SEE2, and how they relate to MCE is very helpful - THANK YOU!
 
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