Dicussion about CI.

[Cloggy]

Umm when you said "I do not need to raise my voice", so is that what you think people should do when they talk to a deaf person by rasing their voice?....Well spotted. No I do not mean it like that.
.................
She is only trying to share her own experiences, just like you're doing here as she listen to you, so why couldn't you give her the same respect by listening to where she is coming from on this too as well ?...

No disrespect intended.
In fact, she's one of the few that is actually "listning".

I reacted as I did because I felt it is used as argumentation how ALL parents do not get the idea that their child is deaf.

Many deaf people that had problems communicating with their parents and siblings are using that argument to show that a child should grow up deaf.

 

[Cheri]

I'm doing it for her. And she loves it...
Stop assuming that choosing CI means rejecting deafness..!!

I'm not making assumptions, You are saying it in your own words and this is how I view it from you, How can you say she loves it when she doesn't know about the deaf world yet, because you haven't introduce her into the deaf world, only she's been introduced into the hearing world. I did not even said that choosing CI means rejecting deafness, You kept saying she is hearing over a numeric period of times, you also kept saying she socializes with the hearing world, yet I don't see you mention anything about the deaf world, that's why I question your motives.

 

[GalaxyAngel]

She is not part of Deaf culture. At the moment she can hear and socialises with hearing people / children.

Being born deaf does not mean that there's some magic rule that makes you Deaf. Nor that you must be Deaf....
I will never force her to research that direction. We'll encourage her to do that in fact.

My daughter is deaf. Not Deaf !!
She'd deaf and she can hear.

And in what way do I not respect my daughters life.... Your insunuation is close to an insult !!

Really? am I offense you? ~ very funny.. Nice try!

Why you're here and your rights speak it out for your pushy exposed what you're trying to. I think you refuse accept your daughter is DEAF!!!

Wait and see when your daughter growing up and will say to you... She'll talk you back really hard!
I do accept who am I "Deaf" Should I complain..? I'm very happy who am I because God create me.

you will not respect your daughter's life... *Too Strong word for you saying that* I hope your daughter will discover here alldeaf.com and realize who are you!
Good Luck!

 

[Theseus]

...You might see a nasty side of CI, I see a good side of CI. I see the benefits, the joy, the communication.

There's pros and cons to having the CI, everyone knows that. It's not the CI that's the problem. It is possible to see the beneficial side of having a CI, but is that the only side you see?

By using the argument of seeing the good side versus the bad side, you seem to be ignoring potential negative effects a hearing-only environment can have on your daughter. You would be mistreating your daughter in this respect. Who cares if this sounds like an insult, because it is meant to help your daughter, by helping you to understand it. Please don't take it personally if deaf people put in their experiences, they're just trying to help you understand for a good cause, so that you can understand what your deaf daughter may go through if she were raised around only hearing people.

Think of it this way: How can you address your daughter's future around people effectively in a way that makes your daughter feel *embraced* for the part of her that is deaf? She needs some friends who have experienced deafness, whether or not you can understand it. Any degree of deafness, even with the CI on, is still a communication barrier. She needs people she can relate with.

Any degree of communication barrier can easily lead to frustration when no one else can understand it. Maybe you will eventually understand, but she needs exposure to other friends who have experienced this and can understand as well. The hearing world cannot really help her in that regard. To say the hearing world can meet her emotional needs completely in that respect would be completely false.

You cannot ignore the consequences despite all the wonderful benefits of a CI... ignoring potential problems in the future will only cause both you and your daughter unnecessary problems down the road, and can greatly damage your relationship with each other. CI or degree of success with CI really has nothing to do with it.

 

[Cloggy]

There's pros and cons to having the CI, everyone knows that. It's not the CI that's the problem. It is possible to see the beneficial side of having a CI, but is that the only side you see?
Very true, I am looking from the positive side towards the negative... and the negative is far away. Others look from the other side... The positive could be just as far away

By using the argument of seeing the good side versus the bad side, you seem to be ignoring potential negative effects a hearing-only environment can have on your daughter. You would be mistreating your daughter in this respect. Who cares if this sounds like an insult, because it is meant to help your daughter, by helping you to understand it. Please don't take it personally if deaf people put in their experiences, they're just trying to help you understand for a good cause, so that you can understand what your deaf daughter may go through if she were raised around only hearing people.That's exactly my point. She is raised by hearing-only people, and these people are not the way she describes them in her example. It is a generalisation that is totally wrong. Count the number of people on this messageboard with a deaf child that has CI. Now how many of these parents sign with their child.... I think you will find it is 4 out of 4 !!

Think of it this way: How can you address your daughter's future around people effectively in a way that makes your daughter feel *embraced* for the part of her that is deaf? She needs some friends who have experienced deafness, whether or not you can understand it. Any degree of deafness, even with the CI on, is still a communication barrier. She needs people she can relate with.How can she, being able to hear, relate to a person that has never heared.?? Of course she will have contact with other children; deaf, hoh, and with CI. But it is probably with the latter that she will relate with. People that can tuurn on/off hearing at will.

Any degree of communication barrier can easily lead to frustration when no one else can understand it. Maybe you will eventually understand, but she needs exposure to other friends who have experienced this and can understand as well. The hearing world cannot really help her in that regard. To say the hearing world can meet her emotional needs completely in that respect would be completely false.Just like the deaf world will not be able to do that. But then, I have never said the hearing world can meet all her emotional needs....

You cannot ignore the consequences despite all the wonderful benefits of a CI... ignoring potential problems in the future will only cause both you and your daughter unnecessary problems down the road, and can greatly damage your relationship with each other. Degree of success with CI really has nothing to do with it.

Potential problems.... isn't that valid for every child...
Why do you think that we are ignoring potential problems in the future.? Do you really think that making a decision like CI is done without that.?

I don't here that question the other way...
"You cannot ignore the consequences of keeping the child deaf despite all the wonderful benefits of being deaf... ignoring potential problems in the future will only cause both you and your daughter unnecessary problems down the road, and can greatly damage your relationship with each other. "

 

[shel90]

Potential problems.... isn't that valid for every child...
Why do you think that we are ignoring potential problems in the future.? Do you really think that making a decision like CI is done without that.?

I don't here that question the other way...
"You cannot ignore the consequences of keeping the child deaf despite all the wonderful benefits of being deaf... ignoring potential problems in the future will only cause both you and your daughter unnecessary problems down the road, and can greatly damage your relationship with each other. "

U keep saying that I am generalizing...I am not. I am just using my experiences to show why i see things this way and u are using yours why u see things differently. I have said in other posts to other parents on AD that I applaud them and everything. I never said ALL parents but that there are so many parents out there that are in denial about their child's deaf needs and dont meet them. Then that's where the problems pop up. I dont know how our debate got to this point but if for any reason I gave u the impression I was using my experiences as a teacher and as a deaf person growing up in the hearing world with no knowledge of deaf culture nor ASL to apply to all the parents here, then I am sorry for that.

My mind is racing trying to remember how this got to this point but not worth trying to go back to all my posts to find the source so I will say this again..

My only concern and question is why use the oral only approach when the child gets the CI or have the attitude that the CI will make the child hearing and forget the child's deaf needs? Why not do both? I dont see the harm in that but it seems like it is such a bad thing in many parents' (not the parents here on AD) eyes. That is where my frustration comes in. I just dont see what the big deal is in exposing the child to sign language. What I get from non AD parents are "Sign language will interfere with the child's ability to speak or listen." Oh brother....not if it is done parallel.

I dont see anything wrong with posting my experiences growing up in the hearing world and my struggles cuz I hope that will help some parents to be aware of those issues that can happen with their deaf child. Is it nice to be aware of as much as we can?

 

[highlands]

I am deaf with hearing aids and could be deaf with a CI in the near future

 

[Angel]

Many deaf people that had problems communicating with their parents and siblings are using that argument to show that a child should grow up deaf

No, it's because CI wasn't popular back in the old days Cloggy as it is now, so it wasn't because their parents or siblings wanted their children growing up deaf , hearing aids were much more popular than CI ....


Second, lack of proper communications on the parents not going half way with us, just like what you said you prefer your daughter to play with hearing children, and haven't socialize with any deaf children yet , that's not going half way either, so you're just like them...Just because your child can hear now doesn't mean she can't be around with deaf children like herself...

Please understand this, there's no way I'm trying to attack you or anything, it just that I don't understand how hard is it for a hearing parents to learn sign language or having their children socialize with other children like themselves...I'm trying to understand where is the fairness in all of this?

 

[shel90]

No, it's because CI wasn't popular back in the old days Cloggy as it is now, so it wasn't because their parents or siblings wanted their children growing up deaf , hearing aids were much more popular than CI ....


Second, lack of proper communications on the parents not going half way with us, just like what you said you prefer your daughter to play with hearing children, and haven't socialize with any deaf children yet , that's not going half way either, so you're just like them...Just because your child can hear now doesn't mean she can't be around with deaf children like herself...

Please understand this, there's no way I'm trying to attack you or anything, it just that I don't understand how hard is it for a hearing parents to learn sign language or having their children socialize with other children like themselves...I'm trying to understand where is the fairness in all of this?

Very well said there! It seems like we deaf people have to wait until we are adults to meet other deaf people like us, huh? How fair is that? What if the child connects with that other deaf child more than the hearing children? Is that what the fear is? I am wondering...

I have my best friend from when I was 1 year old who grew up oral like me but she went to another elementary school and I remember wishing she would go to the same elementary school as I did. She did express that she wished the same thing too and finally we were able to go to the same school in middle school and it was so great to have someone to relate to and to vent my frustrations with being left out. I feel blessed to have that. We were the only deaf students in my middle and high school which were fairly large.

 

[Cloggy]

............
My only concern and question is why use the oral only approach when the child gets the CI or have the attitude that the CI will make the child hearing and forget the child's deaf needs? Why not do both? I dont see the harm in that but it seems like it is such a bad thing in many parents' (not the parents here on AD) eyes. That is where my frustration comes in. I just dont see what the big deal is in exposing the child to sign language. What I get from non AD parents are "Sign language will interfere with the child's ability to speak or listen." Oh brother....not if it is done parallel. ...

One of my children learned dutch first, then Norwegian. One learned them both at the same time. Lotte learned sign first. Then both at the same time, now we focus on speech.
Learning two languages at the same time is confusing at the beginning. (We know, we have been there.) It will be OK later, but there is confusion in the beginning.
We do not want confusion with Lotte. She is allready two years behind with speech, any delay will not be in her favour.
Later on we will definitely start sign again.. Not now.

But think about this:

When communication is going good using speech, without sign, then there is no need to force sign onto the child.
My daughter has stopped using sign herself. Gradually. Why would we force it upon her now... We can do that later..

 

[Cloggy]

...........How fair is that? What if the child connects with that other deaf child more than the hearing children? Is that what the fear is? I am wondering.........

Shel90
What if the child connects with that other hearing child more than the deaf children? Is that what your fear is? I am wondering....

 

[shel90]

One of my children learned dutch first, then Norwegian. One learned them both at the same time. Lotte learned sign first. Then both at the same time, now we focus on speech.
Learning two languages at the same time is confusing at the beginning. (We know, we have been there.) It will be OK later, but there is confusion in the beginning.
We do not want confusion with Lotte. She is allready two years behind with speech, any delay will not be in her favour.
Later on we will definitely start sign again.. Not now.

But think about this:

When communication is going good using speech, without sign, then there is no need to force sign onto the child.
My daughter has stopped using sign herself. Gradually. Why would we force it upon her now... We can do that later..

2 years behind in speech? Speech is a method of communication not language itself. Or u mean that she is 2 years behind in language?

 

[kayla123]

I wish people would have a heart to care, a heart to learn sign language for her or any deaf children, it's sadness me because families with deaf children don't even encourage the family to learn sign language for their daughter/son or families should let the children participating in conversations, rather they're deaf or not. When they don't, it sounds so selfish the same time, so self-center who only thinks of themselves not others who are being left out. It's very sad.

Why don't you learn how to read first. In my quote it clearly states that ME AND HER DAD will sign. I cant make everybody take classes.You need to be a little more realistic. My daughter is very involved in asking and answering questions with the whole family thanks to her CI. You could call me selfish all you want, i don't know you and you don't know me. It's VERY sad when people just can't except the fact that there actually are some CI success stories. Stop being so negative all the time and be happy for these kids who actually enjoy hearing. It's not such a bad thing ya know.

 

[Cloggy]

2 years behind in speech? Speech is a method of communication not language itself. Or u mean that she is 2 years behind in language?

NO, she learned sign!
2 years behind in hearing... does that sound better. And with hearing came speech..

 

[Boult]

Cheri, Cloggy is not saying that she is growing up as a hearing person. no he is saying that she's growing up with ability to hear, speak and listen (that's why he said "she is growing up hearing, speaking and listening") with CI. Have to remember that he's from Norwegian and English is not his native language. I understood him what he's trying to say.

Shel et al, Cloggy already said that they used sign language before Lotte got CI. and he has mentioned that her daughter is using sign less and less down to almost none. He hasn't said that he's stopped using it with her. Just that Lotte is speaking MORE than signs because she has CI. Cloggy did mention that when she's swimming or taking bath so that means the external device has to be taken off so Lotte can't hear then Cloggy will have to sign but Lotte is good lipreader so if he has his hand fulls then she still get it.

Cloggy never said he's going to end it at all.

 

[shel90]

NO, she learned sign!
2 years behind in hearing... does that sound better. And with hearing came speech..

That's new to me. I will have to ask the speech teachers at my work about how they measure speech by age. I do not know much about that area. I can always learn more from the speech dept. My educational background is mainly about language acquistion.

 

[Boult]

2 years behind in speech? Speech is a method of communication not language itself. Or u mean that she is 2 years behind in language?

his daughter was implanted at 2 so 2 years behind. before being implanted, it was all signs.

 

[shel90]

Cheri, Cloggy is not saying that she is growing up as a hearing person. no he is saying that she's growing up with ability to hear, speak and listen (that's why he said "she is growing up hearing, speaking and listening" with CI. Have to remember that he's from Norwegian and English is not his native language. I understood him what he's trying to say.

Shel et al, Cloggy already said that they used sign language before Lotte got CI. and he has mentioned that her daughter is using sign less and less down to almost none. He hasn't said that he's stopped using it with her. Just that Lotte is speaking MORE than signs because she has CI. Cloggy did mention that when she's swimming or taking bath so that means the external device has to be taken off so Lotte can't hear then Cloggy will have to sign but Lotte is good lipreader so if he has his hand fulls then she still get it.

Cloggy never said he's going to end it at all.[/QUOTE]


Was that the impression that I gave out that I implied that Cloggy is going to end it all? I am feeling that some people here are interpreting my points wrong. It seems that my whole point got really lost in this debate. *sighs*

 

[shel90]

his daughter was implanted at 2 so 2 years behind. before being implanted, it was all signs.

I must have missed that VERY important post about Lottie knowing signs that I am happy to know that she got access to a language. Yea, I got what Cloggy meant now..I was just asking to make sure so I wont make the wrong assuptions, ya know?

 

[Boult]

Was that the impression that I gave out that I implied that Cloggy is going to end it all? I am feeling that some people here are interpreting my points wrong. It seems that my whole point got really lost in this debate. *sighs*

no, not you. others though he is because of the way he phrased what he is trying to say.. "lotte is not using sign anymore" they mistook that he is not keeping up with signs with her. I knew that is because Lotte is speaking more than sign. since his native language is not english so other may have misunderstood what he's trying to say.