Debate over PSE/ASL...

[Mountain Man]

The reason why its taught is because the teacher says there is more of a vocabulary choice within SEE/PSE systems rather than ASL.

That is technically correct in that there are more discrete signs, but more isn't necessarily better. The hardest thing for English speakers to wrap their heads around is that ASL is a conceptual rather than a literal language, so it doesn't need a huge vocabulary like some other languages. For instance the sentence "I gave the cup to him" can be signed in ASL as "HIM CUP me-GIVE-TO-him", which is three signs -- or possibly four if you include the sign for ME, though it's not necessary and perhaps even incorrect depending on who you ask -- whereas a PSE signer will sign every single word, so a total of six signs, but in terms of visual expression, ASL is more fluid, eloquent, and in my opinion much easier to understand.

 

[Paris614]

I have a question: **jillio waving hand in the air**

Are you getting foreign language credit for these courses? I

f so, teaching PSE does not fulfill the foreign language requirement. Only ASL will do that. PSE is not a recognized language separate from English.

If this, however, is part of an IT program, and do not fulfill foreign language requirements needed for graduation, then I can see why PSE is introduced, because as a terp, you will run into some deaf that sign PSE.

Another question: Is this an accredited program? I'm guessing not.

Oh, yes, it is considered a foreign language for students who aren't even in the certificate program. I understand that I will need to know PSE for that just in case interpreting job where PSE is used. I just couldn't stand learning and studying out a dictionary...boooring

 

[Bottesini]

Well, I'm into PSE always and who gonna understand me?

Me! Me! Me!!

 

[Bottesini]

That is technically correct in that there are more discrete signs, but more isn't necessarily better. The hardest thing for English speakers to wrap their heads around is that ASL is a conceptual rather than a literal language, so it doesn't need a huge vocabulary like some other languages. For instance the sentence "I gave the cup to him" can be signed in ASL as "HIM CUP me-GIVE-TO-him", which is three signs -- or possibly four if you include the sign for ME, though it's not necessary and perhaps even incorrect depending on who you ask -- whereas a PSE signer will sign every single word, so a total of six signs, but in terms of visual expression, ASL is more fluid, eloquent, and in my opinion much easier to understand.

Not!

 

[ASLGAL]

on the college's website it says the course is is Signed English (pidgin sign).

I guess the college has covered themselves by inserting the disclaimer language, I do not see how anyone graduating from that ITP will be prepared to take an Interpreters Test.

Introduction to Deaf Culture and a field placement in sign language interpreting,

wonder what they mean by that and where would they place someone?

 

[Bottesini]

I guess the college has covered themselves by inserting the disclaimer language, I do not see how anyone graduating from that ITP will be prepared to take an Interpreters Test.



wonder what they mean by that and where would they place someone?

They must intend to send them out half to me and half to PowerOn. :P

 

[ASLGAL]

They must intend to send them out half to me and half to PowerOn.

It probably wouldn't be fair to the students (especially the way the classes wer described) to place them somewhere interpreting with only a certificate in that program.
I feel for the poor students, the D/deaf are known for straight forward/point blank honesty and I imagine the "I'm your interpreter from the Ulster ITP" bubble would be bust pretty quickly.
Granted I am only going by what has been posted.

 

[jillio]

That is technically correct in that there are more discrete signs, but more isn't necessarily better. The hardest thing for English speakers to wrap their heads around is that ASL is a conceptual rather than a literal language, so it doesn't need a huge vocabulary like some other languages. For instance the sentence "I gave the cup to him" can be signed in ASL as "HIM CUP me-GIVE-TO-him", which is three signs -- or possibly four if you include the sign for ME, though it's not necessary and perhaps even incorrect depending on who you ask -- whereas a PSE signer will sign every single word, so a total of six signs, but in terms of visual expression, ASL is more fluid, eloquent, and in my opinion much easier to understand.

Well said!

 

[jillio]

Oh, yes, it is considered a foreign language for students who aren't even in the certificate program. I understand that I will need to know PSE for that just in case interpreting job where PSE is used. I just couldn't stand learning and studying out a dictionary...boooring

Not according to their website. Their website lists available foreign languages as French, German, and Spanish. And their site lists the sign classes only as "sign language" not as ASL. These classes would not transfer to a 4 year university as a foreign language credit.

I would suggest that you try to find a school that has an accredited ITP if you are truly interested in that field. And go for nothing less than an associate's degree.

 

[jillio]

I guess the college has covered themselves by inserting the disclaimer language, I do not see how anyone graduating from that ITP will be prepared to take an Interpreters Test.



wonder what they mean by that and where would they place someone?

Unfortuantely, they would probably place them in the closest school district as an elementary level educational terp. I've seen it happen all too often.

And I agree. No way this program could prepare someone to pass the certification exam. I wonder if any of their certificate holders have even attempted it, and if so, what their pass rate is. Of course, without being an accredited program, they probably don't even keep track of those numbers.

I feel sorry for the students, as well, that are paying good money thinking they are being trained for terping.

 

[Paris614]

Not according to their website. Their website lists available foreign languages as French, German, and Spanish. And their site lists the sign classes only as "sign language" not as ASL. These classes would not transfer to a 4 year university as a foreign language credit.

I would suggest that you try to find a school that has an accredited ITP if you are truly interested in that field. And go for nothing less than an associate's degree.

Students in the past, and the ones graduating had all 5 accepted as a foreign language and the credit was transfered...I have no idea what goes on, that is why I withdrew

 

[jillio]

Students in the past, and the ones graduating had all 5 accepted as a foreign language and the credit was transfered...I have no idea what goes on, that is why I withdrew

Sorry, but I would need to see some evidence that these credits transferred as foreign language credits to a 4 year university, or even to an accreditied community college. Ulster does not even list their courses as ASL. They list them only as "sign language". That is not sufficient to qualify as foreign language credit. I get the impression that the people at Ulster are telling you things that aren't necessarily true just to keep the program open. If they don't have students enrolling, the program will close. And if they tell you the truth...that they are charging people for a useless certificate and not teaching them what they need to know to work in the field...no one will enroll.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I've seen classes that were labelled ASL but in fact taught more PSE. Depends on the skill and background of the instructor, I think.

I think PSE is just easier for hearing people to learn it. They are used to spoken english, it is hard to take what they learn and reverse it.

 

[jillio]

I think PSE is just easier for hearing people to learn it. They are used to spoken english, it is hard to take what they learn and reverse it.

Agreed. But in an ITP, one is not supposed to be learning what is easier for the hearing population. They are supposed to be learning a separate language that qualifies them as terps.

 

[Lighthouse77]

People like my mom would need it. She isn't into being a terp, just being a mother who want to communicate her daughter

 

[jillio]

People like my mom would need it. She isn't into being a terp, just being a mother who want to communicate her daughter

Then that is fine.

 

[Mountain Man]

I guess the college has covered themselves by inserting the disclaimer language, I do not see how anyone graduating from that ITP will be prepared to take an Interpreters Test.



wonder what they mean by that and where would they place someone?

A lot of states have very loose standards for interpreters. For instance here in Ohio, someone who is merely a CODA can legally call themselves an interpreter and can successfully find work from well-meaning hearing folks who don't know any better.

 

[Bottesini]

A lot of states have very loose standards for interpreters. For instance here in Ohio, someone who is merely a CODA can legally call themselves an interpreter and can successfully find work from well-meaning hearing folks who don't know any better.

Ohio State Interpreters working in pre-K-12 public schools are required to have a 5 yr associate license issued by the Ohio Dept of Education. To be eligible for a license, interpreters must be graduates of an Ohio interpreter degree program approved by ODE. There is no performance-based standard at this time. Licensed interpreters must earn 18 CEUs for renewal, with CEUs approved through Local Professional Development Committees at the school or district level. The full text of the licensure bill, which applies to all licensed educators, is available at Page Not Found There are also substitute licenses (for those who are contracted as subs) and temporary licenses (for those enrolled in a program leading to licensure). Interpreters from out of state may be able to apply for alternative licensure.
State Regulations for Interpreters

 

[Mountain Man]

That's in educational settings, but it's not a general statewide standard. It's also not strictly enforced by every school unless things have changed dramatically within the last 6-months. I know of one woman who earned an ASL/Deaf studies certificate and went on to find a job as an interpreter at an elementary school. She admitted that she realized she wasn't qualified to be an interpreter, but she needed the money. Unfortunately, in Ohio the only person who is able to file a complaint about the quality of interpreting provided is the client, which in this case is a deaf child who is unlikely to do so.

 

[jillio]

A lot of states have very loose standards for interpreters. For instance here in Ohio, someone who is merely a CODA can legally call themselves an interpreter and can successfully find work from well-meaning hearing folks who don't know any better.

True. They can call themselves a terp, but they can't call themselves "certified". When I employ terps for my students, I refuse to accept a terp that isn't certified. They are also interviewed ahead of time, and the student meets them. And then, my student also does an evaluation every quarter, and if they don't think their services are up to par, I look for another terp.