Dealing with "Pathological Liers".....

Grayma said:
I know two far better than I wish to. One is a relative and one is somebody we have been involved with for five years while we try to help her children. We put up with it for the children. We have guidelines- we never give her money, leave her alone in our house, or believe a word she says. I practice a conversational policy of noncommittal nothings when she talks. My side of the conversation is only "Hmmm. Mmmm. Really? Oh. Huh. How about that?" while she talks. That's all.

I do not know why people do it. I don't think it's *just* trauma, because lots of people go through the same kinds of trauma and don't become liars. I think there is a sort of innate moral cowardice, combined with circumstances where they get away with lying enough times that it becomes a habit, and eventually they cannot even tell what they are doing anymore, they lie without thinking about it and they don't even care enough to keep straight stories. At some point, I don't think they can help it anymore unless they really find it too painful to keep it up and make a determined decision to stop, including being willing to humiliate themselves and admit their lies over and over.

Which brings us back to the innate moral cowardice issue. They don't have moral courage.
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By your logic, lot of soldiers go thru trauma and don't become crazed cold-blood killers. Therefore, PTSD is part of moral cowardice.

You are confusing pathological liars with delusional people. Pathlogical liars are fully aware of their lies and they are manipulative. Delusional people cannot tell what's real or not.

Pathological lying is not some simple lying with poker face and Hollywood acting. It's actually very sophisticated and requires highly intelligent skill. Most pathological liars are extremely manipulative and it mostly associates with narcissistic or antisocial personality. bottom line- the actual cause of pathological lying is poor self-esteem and for that, one develops a self-defense mechanism. It could lead to multiple personality disorder, suicidal personality, pathlogical lying, etc.

Sad....
 
Bottesini said:
Why not genetics? There is something different about someone who doesn't tell the truth, and constantly lies.

I would say there is something wrong with them. Why can't it be a part of some mental illness that they are genetically predisposed to?
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rockin'robin said:
Well, I too, am leaning towards genetics somewhat.....and believe it can be addictive/long term also. A cure for it? Probably not, unless they would grow a "Pinocchio" nose whenever they lied....There are many con artists out there, and they teach their offsprings the trade.
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There's really no genetic predisposition that cause you to be a pathological liar. It's a mental disorder that can happen to anyone at anytime depending on circumstance. But then again, every person responds differently to same scenario. Some takes it like a real man and move on, some commits suicide, some resorts to violence (murder, shooting spree, etc), some completely cut off himself from society, and some lies.
 
rockin'robin said:
Well, I too, am leaning towards genetics somewhat.....and believe it can be addictive/long term also. A cure for it? Probably not, unless they would grow a "Pinocchio" nose whenever they lied....There are many con artists out there, and they teach their offsprings the trade.
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Pathological liars found to have less gray matter

Localisation of increased prefrontal white matter in pathological liars

Hmm...could be. After all, it is our genes that make us who we are and the environment around us that could cause people to become more predisposed to lying.
 
married one... they go down a path.. pathological. running from themselves. always play the victim to justify lies as necessary.
 
Jiro said:
By your logic, lot of soldiers go thru trauma and don't become crazed cold-blood killers. Therefore, PTSD is part of moral cowardice.

You are confusing pathological liars with delusional people. Pathlogical liars are fully aware of their lies and they are manipulative. Delusional people cannot tell what's real or not.

Pathological lying is not some simple lying with poker face and Hollywood acting. It's actually very sophisticated and requires highly intelligent skill. Most pathological liars are extremely manipulative and it mostly associates with narcissistic or antisocial personality. bottom line- the actual cause of pathological lying is poor self-esteem and for that, one develops a self-defense mechanism. It could lead to multiple personality disorder, suicidal personality, pathlogical lying, etc.

Sad....
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Sigh. No, Jiro. That is not 'by my logic,' that's your misunderstanding.

We were not talking about PSTD. We were talking about lying. Lying and PSTD are two very different things.

Further more, not all pathological liars have had a trauma in the past causing them to lie. But everybody with PSTD has had a trauma triggering it.
 
Jiro said:
By your logic, lot of soldiers go thru trauma and don't become crazed cold-blood killers. Therefore, PTSD is part of moral cowardice.

You are confusing pathological liars with delusional people. Pathlogical liars are fully aware of their lies and they are manipulative. Delusional people cannot tell what's real or not.

Pathological lying is not some simple lying with poker face and Hollywood acting. It's actually very sophisticated and requires highly intelligent skill. Most pathological liars are extremely manipulative and it mostly associates with narcissistic or antisocial personality. bottom line- the actual cause of pathological lying is poor self-esteem and for that, one develops a self-defense mechanism. It could lead to multiple personality disorder, suicidal personality, pathlogical lying, etc.

Sad....
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Sigh. No, Jiro. That is not 'by my logic,' that's your misunderstanding.

We were not talking about PSTD. We were talking about lying. Lying and PSTD are two very different things.

Further more, not all pathological liars have had a trauma in the past causing them to lie. But everybody with PSTD has had a trauma triggering it.

Another difference: Symptoms of PSTD are mostly not 'moral' issues- they include things like inability to sleep, flash backs, heightened startle reflex, social withdrawal,nightmares, trouble concentrating, and so forth.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Lying? That's a moral failing. So is being a manipulative narcissist.

Nor is this something to do with poor self esteem (that information is about ten years out of date, maybe more). Their self esteem is just fine (so is that of other abusive personalities). They hold others in low regard, not themselves.
 
Grayma said:
Sigh. No, Jiro. That is not 'by my logic,' that's your misunderstanding.

We were not talking about PSTD. We were talking about lying. Lying and PSTD are two very different things.

Further more, not all pathological liars have had a trauma in the past causing them to lie. But everybody with PSTD has had a trauma triggering it.

Another difference: Symptoms of PSTD are mostly not 'moral' issues- they include things like inability to sleep, flash backs, heightened startle reflex, social withdrawal,nightmares, trouble concentrating, and so forth.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Lying? That's a moral failing. So is being a manipulative narcissist.

Nor is this something to do with poor self esteem (that information is about ten years out of date, maybe more). Their self esteem is just fine (so is that of other abusive personalities). They hold others in low regard, not themselves.
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I'm sure fear of god would just put them right back on track.

You seem to know how many pathological liars are out there that have no trauma. And I'm telling you that most pathological liars lie as part of their self-defense mechanism in response to PRSD/trauma.

But then there are actually different categories for pathological liars. One of them is OCD-related which means they can't help it and it was an uncontrollable urge to lie. It's as bad as Tourette's syndrome or kleptomania.

But pathological liar is not the same as deliberated lying.
 
I actually deal with one and Im deeply concerned...it's so hard to defend myself when Im dealing with one...I think some of you know that. Im dealing with what ppl want others to believe and you cant do anything about it..makes my blood boil....is it physcho liar or pathological liar or same thing?
 
I am thinking that a pathological liars are just lonesome and might felt rejected. I guess they are crying for help with their emotional anxiety of wanting to have attention from them. As for taking advantage with people that the pathological liar found a way to fool them. I don't know but the way it sound it is like being paranoid of who the person is. Lies are not good at all. It is better to be honest than lying. It does seem to make an habit that people lies. :2c:
 
DeafTim said:
I actually deal with one and Im deeply concerned...it's so hard to defend myself when Im dealing with one...I think some of you know that. Im dealing with what ppl want others to believe and you cant do anything about it..makes my blood boil....is it physcho liar or pathological liar or same thing?
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interesting question. psycho liar and pathological liar.

well I would say... there's no such thing as psycho liar :lol: lol sorry. I don't think I've ever heard of such term.

but if this person is just extremely manipulative and effective at what he/she's doing by lying and has been doing it for a long time... yea that's the definition of pathological liar.

as for you - I wish I have a good suggestion on dealing with pathological liar but... unfortunately I don't. All I can say is walk away and ignore that person. It does definitely suck when you leave that person alone and that person just won't drop it and continue to spread rumors about you (which I'm assuming is what's happening to you now)
 
SneakerNet said:
Yes at the edge of interconnecting between river and ocean but in a rare case that shark don't swim deep up the rivier due to fresh water, shark can't live in fresh water. There are some shark can live in fresh for long time, I think it's bull sharks, but can't breed there, have to do it in salt water. Hardly in USA but bull shark in Amazon...it can happen.
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a bull shark was caught in the mississippi in alton ill in 1937. dams now prevent the bull sharks making it that far up river.

in the amazon river a bull shark was caught 2220 miles up river.

estimated to be 500 bull sharks up the brisbane river.
:Ohno:

I watch shark week read alot about them, sharks fascinate me :P

http://www.fearbeneath.com/sharks/bull-sharks/
 
Jiro said:
interesting question. psycho liar and pathological liar.

well I would say... there's no such thing as psycho liar :lol: lol sorry. I don't think I've ever heard of such term.

but if this person is just extremely manipulative and effective at what he/she's doing by lying and has been doing it for a long time... yea that's the definition of pathological liar.

as for you - I wish I have a good suggestion on dealing with pathological liar but... unfortunately I don't. All I can say is walk away and ignore that person. It does definitely suck when you leave that person alone and that person just won't drop it and continue to spread rumors about you (which I'm assuming is what's happening to you now)
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:lol: Ok..no such thing as psycho liar but hey I had to ask...You're right, it's tough to deal with a pathological liar and all I can do is keep ignorin that person..It's best for me to do that...I just cant believe ppl are capable to be one.
 
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