Deaf School or Oral School?

Wirelessly posted

i just want to add, whatever programs you are considering, make sure you visit the upper grades and see how the kids are doing. Are they reading and writing well? Are their academics at appropriate levels? That is an important consideration.
 
Wirelessly posted

Hi! Welcome to AD! I started at a mainstream school and opted to go to a deaf school. In mainstream schools and oral schools, it seems like more time is spent on making kids say words "properly" and not enough time spent making sure they know what the words mean. I believe that is the reason for the literacy issues in deaf education, not the use of ASL, but the need to make deaf children sound "normal". Thats why I like the bilingual-biculteral model of deaf education. I'm not saying don't work on her speech, just don't make that the focus of her life. I get that the majority of the world is hearing, but I feel that integration and success in that world is achieved by literacy and education, not how well you can pronounce "cookie".
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted

i just want to add, whatever programs you are considering, make sure you visit the upper grades and see how the kids are doing. Are they reading and writing well? Are their academics at appropriate levels? That is an important consideration.
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And ask to see kids who have been in the program for years. A large part of the reason why Signing Deaf Schools have an evil reputation is b/c they're seen as a last resort placement. So therefore most of the students there are kids who didn't really thrive in the mainstream, and need to catch up.
The early intervention and early childhood at Schools for the Deaf are AMAZING, and you will not find a better placement for a dhh kid anywhere else.
 
One thing you COULD do is have her attend Deaf School for preschool and kindergarten, and maybe even a few years for the lower grades. A Deaf School really is VERY underutilized as an educational option. That way she could get a very strong educational base. I also think that the California Schools will probaly be very hard of hearing friendly in a few years. They are now.....they offer things like speech therapy etc (almost all kids attending Schools for the Deaf get a REALLY hefty dose of speech therapy) Or maybe she could attend a school with a strong Dhh program. There are some pretty good Dhh programs out there. And I think that hearing parents need to understand that you may have to switch educational placements at different times, especially around middle and high school. They also should understand that inclusion is one of those things that SOUND good but very rarely work out well in practice, especially with the way middle and high school is in this country.
 
First of all, what a cutie she is.

I would say deaf schools because they tend to have much more dedicated teachers who cares about their students, also they tend to have more resources than mainstream.

I should know because I attended a school for the deaf and have observed this fact. Teachers always wanted the best for me and actively encouraged me to go for it. Because of their support and faith, I was able to graduate and transition onto university.

Mainstream schools would always find a way not to meet your child's needs. You'd have to fight a lot and it can get tiring.

Wish all the best for your daughter. I hope your hubby will grow out of his denial sooner or later.
 
Wirelessly posted (droid)

I generally prefer a smaller, more specialized school. Both as a mom and person trained as a teacher. Especially at the elementary level. Not just for deaf kids but for most kids. Kids are more likely to get their needs met and to have a positive social experience. That was my philosophy with my kids.
 
@deafdyke yes I was on about.com are you the one who refered me to this site? Thanks if you did I am getting alot of info from here.
@Miss-delectible. Thanks I have to agree with her being a cutie..but then again I think both my girls are but I am mom

I am going to make an appointment to take a tour of fremonts school for the deaf. I found out yesterday from her teacher that the preschool she would have gone to in her program has been moved and mixed with a all hearing preschool. So at 3 they will already be mainstreaming her. Don't know that I like that. She also informed me that the school district we are in will provide an FM System to her teachers through 5th grade but in Jr. High and High school she is pretty much on her own.
 
nancyj said:
@deafdyke yes I was on about.com are you the one who refered me to this site? Thanks if you did I am getting alot of info from here.
@Miss-delectible. Thanks I have to agree with her being a cutie..but then again I think both my girls are but I am mom

I am going to make an appointment to take a tour of fremonts school for the deaf. I found out yesterday from her teacher that the preschool she would have gone to in her program has been moved and mixed with a all hearing preschool. So at 3 they will already be mainstreaming her. Don't know that I like that. She also informed me that the school district we are in will provide an FM System to her teachers through 5th grade but in Jr. High and High school she is pretty much on her own.
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Oh Nancy- welcome to the world of "special education". That teacher was misinformed about the obligations of the school district. If she would benefit from the FM system, it can be used all the way through her educational career (12th grade or 22, but more likely 12th grade).

Also given that your district doesn't have a DHH program for 3-5 year olds, you'll have a leg up on getting her placement at CEID if that's what you're looking for. I think it's great to go look at CSDF, but as Bott mentioned it's likely she won't be eligible to go there.

Your daughter is entitled to an education in which she has teachers and staff proficient in her primary mode if communication. She is also entitled to peers with whom she can communicate with in her primary mode of communication. If you decide to keep up with the signing, then ASL or TC/SEE will be her primary mode of communication... Even if she is expressing language verbally, receptively would be another story.

If they don't have a strong infant program (18 mos-3 years) I would go look at
CEID and see what you think. If you are impressed with their program, I'd fight for placement ASAP. She won't be old enough to go for some time, but it's better to get your ducks in a row beforehand as you are doing.

Word of advice- don't rely on the teachers and administrators for information on which what your child is legally entitled to. They are often uninforned, and mistaken whether they realize it or not. You need to see the information/laws/Ed Codes for yourself.

One great website is

Wrightslaw Special Education Law and Advocacy

Search that site, and you'll start the process of educating yourself on the rights of your daughter as well as your rights as a parent.
 
As I mentioned before, the first 5 years are critical in a Childs speech and language development. Placing her in a strong DHH program birth-5 will set her up for success. At that point she could either be mainstreamed, or attend a regional DHH program. Either way, it's important she be able to access her surroundings and have peers with similar needs.
 
Let's hear from the deafies, first, huh? They are the experts in deaf child needs. Plenty of time for the hearing parents to jump in with their hearing perspective. This parent already has her hearing perspective intact. She needs the deaf perspective so that she is capable of making contrasts and comparisons of ALL the information. That which comes from the Deaf themselves, and that which comes from the hearing.

BTW...one of the biggest problems with Deaf Ed today is that it is classified and thought of as "special education". Special education is used to address cognitive disability. Education for the deaf is not intended to address cognitive disability. Your child is not developmentally disabled. She is deaf. There is a big difference. Always, always, keep that foremost in your mind.

Bowing out again so the Deafies can help this mom out.
 
CSign said:
As I mentioned before, the first 5 years are critical in a Childs speech and language development. Placing her in a strong DHH program birth-5 will set her up for success. At that point she could either be mainstreamed, or attend a regional DHH program. Either way, it's important she be able to access her surroundings and have peers with similar needs.
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This is a misquote. Time line is way off.
 
jillio said:
Let's hear from the deafies, first, huh? They are the experts in deaf child needs. Plenty of time for the hearing parents to jump in with their hearing perspective. This parent already has her hearing perspective intact. She needs the deaf perspective so that she is capable of making contrasts and comparisons of ALL the information. That which comes from the Deaf themselves, and that which comes from the hearing.

BTW...one of the biggest problems with Deaf Ed today is that it is classified and thought of as "special education". Special education is used to address cognitive disability. Education for the deaf is not intended to address cognitive disability. Your child is not developmentally disabled. She is deaf. There is a big difference. Always, always, keep that foremost in your mind.

Bowing out again so the Deafies can help this mom out.
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Oh boy.

The supports, services, accommodations all come from the student being eligible for "Special
Education". That is the term that is used to represent a broad spectrum of eligibility. You'll note that I
even put quotes around the term, "Special Education". I did that because I don't particularly care for
the term, but that is how it's classified. Same reason why I put quotes around the word, "disability" often times because I don't view deafness as a "disability."


As to the array of other comments, I will say this... I am responding to the OP's question and following posts. I have not stated anything even remotely objectionable, and I am providing relevant information. I find it interesting you would disagree that the first five years are not crucial in a Childs speech language development.

I would appreciate you refraining from the unnecessary, negative comments directed at me. Also, as you are not a moderator it is not your place to tell
me when and where I can comment, nor is it your place to dictate the
direction of the thread to other posters. :ty:
 
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CSign said:
Oh boy.

The supports, services, accommodations all come from the student being eligible for "Special Education". That is the term that is used to represent a broad spectrum of eligibility. You'll note that I even put quotes around the term, "Special Education". I did that because I don't particularly care for the term, but that is how it's classified. Sane reason why I put quotes around the word, "disability" often times because I don't view deafness as a "disability."


As to the array of other comments, I will say this... I am responding to the OP's question and following posts. I have not stated anything even remotely objectionable, and I am providing relevant information. I find it interesting you would disagree that the first five years are not crucial in a Childs speech language development.

I would appreciate you refraining from the unnecessary, negative comments directed at me. Also, as you are not a moderator it is not your place to tell
me when and where I can comment, nor is it your place to dictate the
direction of the thread to other posters. :ty:
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And? It is still a problem when Deaf Ed is labeled "special ed".

You never think you are stating anything objectionable and are providing relevent information. The majority would disagree with you.:cool2:

Your time line is off. I am disagreeing with your attempt to state a developmental and cognitive fact and doing it incorrectly.

I would appreciate you dropping your self centered need for attention and not take another thread off topic.:ty:
 
nancyj said:
@deafdyke yes I was on about.com are you the one who refered me to this site? Thanks if you did I am getting alot of info from here.
@Miss-delectible. Thanks I have to agree with her being a cutie..but then again I think both my girls are but I am mom

I am going to make an appointment to take a tour of fremonts school for the deaf. I found out yesterday from her teacher that the preschool she would have gone to in her program has been moved and mixed with a all hearing preschool. So at 3 they will already be mainstreaming her. Don't know that I like that. She also informed me that the school district we are in will provide an FM System to her teachers through 5th grade but in Jr. High and High school she is pretty much on her own.
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Hey you. Fremont is actually one of the best, if not the best, schools for the Deaf in the nation. I see so many people coming out of Fremont with a very healthy mindset and self confidence. I know quite a few graduates there that are lawyers, businessmen, etc. One of them is a programmer for Google currently.

Edit to add the following line or two: Currently Fremont has a Deaf superintendent, Deaf administrators, Deaf teachers - the key elements. The reason I say they're key elements is because the Deaf population are taught visually and they learn quite differently than their hearing peers. Who's the best to address these needs? I would say the people who had the same experiences growing up.

You're very lucky to have that as an option. Many aren't.

Well, what can I say about myself?

I was mainstreamed up till the 4th grade. I loathed every minute of it. I was labelled with a bunch of stuff and the teachers wanted me to be on every drug they thought up of. All of this because of worlds colliding.

I'm so thankful for my parents seeing this and deciding to send me to the Deaf school here in Colorado. I have tons and tons of friends these days because of that.

Best luck to you :)
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted

i just want to add, whatever programs you are considering, make sure you visit the upper grades and see how the kids are doing. Are they reading and writing well? Are their academics at appropriate levels? That is an important consideration.
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She can review my post for that information. I give her permission to do so.
 
I would recommend Deaf schools as opposed to mainstream.

A little info on my educational background should be helpful. By the time, I turned 18 I had gone to 8 different schools. Like most deaf kids in the 70s, I was placed in an oral progam at 18 months old. St Paul was my first school. I was quite successful in these programs. The whole point of oral programs that I attended is to make sure the deaf kids succeed in mainstream with out sign as a "crutch". By the time I was in the 3rd grade, the oralists were so pleased with my progress that they had me mainstreamed at Maybeury Elementary (my fifth school) near my home.

Being in mainstream was a constant struggle for me. I had no support services other than a weekly meeting with my resource teacher. I had to wear the Phonic Ear and that would shut me out of classroom dicussions and I didn't always understand the teacher. I missed out a great deal in class because I was unable to follow the teacher or the students. I ended up reading a great deal to make up for what I missed in class.


By the time I was in the fifth grade, it was apparent that I was having problems in mainstream so my mother would tell me I was failing fifth grade and I was puzzled because I got passing grades so I spoke to my fifth grade teacher who told me I wasn't failing fifth grade. I didn't know who to believe. I think my mother wanted to frighten me into working harder to succeed.

Sixth grade in mainstream was hellish for me because I wasn't able to keep up with the class and as I recall, it was heavy on audio stuff and not so much visual stuff. Spanish class was a nightmare for me because I had to learn everything thru audio stuff. For example, she showed us Goldlocks and the 3 Bears. It was in Spanish. There were no captions either. The words that I heard were meaningless jumble to me because I could not hear well enough to differnate between them. If one can not understand the words well enough to differnate between then it will be meaningless jumble in any language.

There was another deaf guy who had a moderate hearing loss in the class and he had an easier time understanding spoken Spanish. My Spanish teacher told me that I had no excuse for not being able to understand spoken Spanish because I had this big Phonic Ear and that should make me be able to hear what she's saying just like everyone else.

When I went to deaf school, classes became a lot easier because I didn't have to struggle as much to understand everyone around me. You're not learning anything if you can't understand what your teacher is saying to you.

I met a Deaf adult for the first time in the in the dorms at age 13. My science teacher was my first Deaf teacher. I had always thought I'd somehow hearing as an adult till I met them.

Mainstream isn't good because teachers and princpals will not understand the nature of the child's deafness and they have misconeptions of deafness. The child will suffer because in mainstream, they will try to get away with providing as little as possible for your child.

I do not recommend starting out with SEE as it's cumbersome for both hearing and deaf. I would use SEE only in the classroom. . The hearing usually want to pick up SEE because it's most like English. The trouble with that is that SEE is so awkward that they will end up using PSE instead.

ASL won't be easy at first for the hearing but with time if they keep at it, your child will be able to talk to you about a lot of things.
 
wow!! ok now I appreciate what everyone is telling me. It all benifits me and helps in my decision making. Csign I thank you for all your input as to where you have been in my situation as a parent of a hoh child and the others cause you have delt with it personaly.
 
nancyj said:
@deafdyke yes I was on about.com are you the one who refered me to this site? Thanks if you did I am getting alot of info from here.
@Miss-delectible. Thanks I have to agree with her being a cutie..but then again I think both my girls are but I am mom

I am going to make an appointment to take a tour of fremonts school for the deaf. I found out yesterday from her teacher that the preschool she would have gone to in her program has been moved and mixed with a all hearing preschool. So at 3 they will already be mainstreaming her. Don't know that I like that. She also informed me that the school district we are in will provide an FM System to her teachers through 5th grade but in Jr. High and High school she is pretty much on her own.
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Yes, indeedy I am the one who referred you here. It's a lot more active here.
And yes, you're already finding that if you take the mainstream route, she's gonna just get a minimal accomondations approach with basicly front row seating and an FM device......and I mean if you opted for that, she wouldn't even get specialized preschool......that is something that is needed for most kids with low incidence disabilties.
 
deafdyke said:
Yes, indeedy I am the one who referred you here. It's a lot more active here.
And yes, you're already finding that if you take the mainstream route, she's gonna just get a minimal accomondations approach with basicly front row seating and an FM device......and I mean if you opted for that, she wouldn't even get specialized preschool......that is something that is needed for most kids with low incidence disabilties.
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I got only a little more than that in terms of accomonations. I got the front row seating and the FM device plus twice weekly speech therapy and an hour or so with my resource teacher. That's about it.
 
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