Deaf Education - One size does not fit all

Angel said:
Cool :thumb:
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They are not similar alike while TC uses speech, signs, lipreading in the classroom and bi bi program uses ASL in the classroom. Big differences.
 
Bear said:
Thank you for clearing that up Cheri and you are right that I do feel speech is just as important as signs.

However, I feel signs should not be stopped at all. I feel sign should be used AS WELL AS speech at least in the early years. This helps to foster a enviroment for the child, to be able to clearly understand all that is going on around the child. I would say at least until a child reaches a point where they can understand what each word means and sounds like, then sign should be used alongside speech.

Was that clear? Or am I going every which way there? lol not sure!

But my belief is to foster comprehension of the written English it helps to be able to speak it. Otherwise, I see that child writing in ASL more than English.
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I think that we are all trying to say the same thing: that English fluency is important for success. But that the way to achieve that for a deaf student is by having a strong foundation in sign.
 
Cheri said:
Speech is not use in the classroom, second of all how do you teach the students English as a second Language? You use ASL to teach them English to read and write correct?.
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Yes I do and it is working. Since the beginning of the year, my students' reading and writing levels went from mid first grade to early 2nd grade. I highlight the English phrases like for example "setting up the table" with neon see-through tape so when I am done highlighting all 4 books (very time consuming), I write the phrases on index cards so before I have my students read the book, I introduce the phrases and ask them to sign it word for word (yes, a little SEE) and then ask them to explain them in ASL. If they dont know it, then I model it. If I was always signing using my speech my signs would give the kids the concept that I am putting the table up since the word "up" is in the phrase which can be confusing for the kids. Instead I write the phrase in isolation and explain to the kids what that means in ASL (my kids already understand that ASL and English are two separate languages) and that while reading out loud, whenever they see the yellow tape, they know it is an English phrase and think of the concept rather than signing it for word and word without understanding the concept. That is how English is taught thru using ASL. Of course, all the vocabulary words are introduced before they read the story and we discuss the meanings of the words.

Next week, one of the books has the word "like" in it often but it is used in the content as "I want to be like you." Before the kids read the story, I sign using "like" as in that content not in the content "I like you." so they understand that the word like has different meanings.

I use 3 different books each week with my students so that means I cut that tape in tiny bits and highlight every page that has English phrases or words that have different meanings so 4 students times 3 books is 12 books a week. It is hard hard work and hearing children's teachers dont do all these kinds of modifications. That's why I have such little time to do anything at work and not only that, I am getting a new student on Tuesday so that means I will have to do 15 books a week!!!
 
jillio said:
I think that we are all trying to say the same thing: that English fluency is important for success. But that the way to achieve that for a deaf student is by having a strong foundation in sign.
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Yes and that is why I work my ass off daily to ensure my students have success with English fluency. It feels so great when their test scores show improvement in literacy skills just like they did last week compared to August.
 
shel90 said:
Yes and that is why I work my ass off daily to ensure my students have success with English fluency. It feels so great when their test scores show improvement in literacy skills just like they did last week compared to August.
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That's great, Shel!
Maybe Australia should lure you over here and teach ;)
 
shel90 said:
Yes I do and it is working. Since the beginning of the year, my students' reading and writing levels went from mid first grade to early 2nd grade. I highlight the English phrases like for example "setting up the table" with neon see-through tape so when I am done highlighting all 4 books (very time consuming), I write the phrases on index cards so before I have my students read the book, I introduce the phrases and ask them to sign it word for word (yes, a little SEE) and then ask them to explain them in ASL. If they dont know it, then I model it. If I was always signing using my speech my signs would give the kids the concept that I am putting the table up since the word "up" is in the phrase which can be confusing for the kids. Instead I write the phrase in isolation and explain to the kids what that means in ASL (my kids already understand that ASL and English are two separate languages) and that while reading out loud, whenever they see the yellow tape, they know it is an English phrase and think of the concept rather than signing it for word and word without understanding the concept. That is how English is taught thru using ASL. Of course, all the vocabulary words are introduced before they read the story and we discuss the meanings of the words.

Next week, one of the books has the word "like" in it often but it is used in the content as "I want to be like you." Before the kids read the story, I sign using "like" as in that content not in the content "I like you." so they understand that the word like has different meanings.

I use 3 different books each week with my students so that means I cut that tape in tiny bits and highlight every page that has English phrases or words that have different meanings so 4 students times 3 books is 12 books a week. It is hard hard work and hearing children's teachers dont do all these kinds of modifications. That's why I have such little time to do anything at work and not only that, I am getting a new student on Tuesday so that means I will have to do 15 books a week!!!
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I really like the technique of highlighting the English phrases and idioms for easy recognition to train them to interpret automatically. That really creates a work overload for you, but the trick is to get them to understand the different conceptual meanings for the same word, such as "like" as in affection for and "like" as in "same as". That is where ASL comes in so handy for explaining conceptual differences. Are the hearing teachers reluctant to do these modifications because they don't understand the need for them, or because they don't think it would be helpful? Just curious.
 
Cheri said:
They are not similar alike while TC uses speech, signs, lipreading in the classroom and bi bi program uses ASL in the classroom. Big differences.
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Yes, that is a difference, but it is a difference that keeps from creating a confusing linguistic atmosphere and give the students 2 models of pure language rather than distorted models of one language.
 
shel90 said:
Yes and that is why I work my ass off daily to ensure my students have success with English fluency. It feels so great when their test scores show improvement in literacy skills just like they did last week compared to August.
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I have no doubt that those scores will continue to improve with the Bi-Bi approach. They may reach a point where they will plateau out for a short time, but that happens with all students, deaf or hearing because of developmental plateaus. The key is that after the evening out, you see gradual increases continuing.
 
It hit me how similar the questions and replies in this thread is to the spanish-english bi-bi education debate. Bi-bi for spanish people have been accused for relying too much on spanish. The most successful bi-bi program for spanish people have far much more english training that claimed by many critizers. Some of the "bad" spanish bi-bi program are to me similar to the "bad" bi-bi programs for deaf people, which are randomly depending on who is working in that school, with either too much english or too much spanish and quite often outdated pedagogy techniques. This is my impression after googling this topic on internet. Nice thread we got here.
 
From what I know is the bi bi methodology is 20 years old, You have told me this was a new program instead of trusting your word for it, I should have done more research but the problem is there wasn't enough, from what I've came to learned that the first school that use the bi bi program was in 1989 which it was The Learning center for the deaf children in Framingham, Mass. And then in 1990 Indiana for the deaf use bi bi program too and so on. The point is that this methodology is just not well known.

This debate is never going to be completely resolved, we go around and around. Everyone has an opinion. But from what I've see on here is some of you are making TC so bad to the public. I have been in a TC program and I have nothing bad to say about that methodology. I got to learned signs, lip reading and speech. Who could ask for anything better than that?

Some of you have said that Bi Bi is better than TC or better than Cued Speech or better than Oralism. The point is no deaf is the same as another deaf person. What might work for this deaf individual might not work for another deaf individual. Now I can really see how hearing parents must felt when they're trying to do all that they can. Education is an extiemely important to ALL OF US.

My goal is to get all hearing parents of deaf children to get involved in ASL, I don't care what Education they decide on for their child, I just want them to use signs too and stop focusing on hearing and speech ONLY, Its the same I would say to Deaf Adults to stop focusing on ASL ONLY. Come on, we should not leave no child left behind. They have that right to know as many communication tools as possible.

Now for hearing parents of deaf children, ASL has been around since 1817, and it should be well perseved as long as there's deaf people on this earth with or without the use of cochlear implants. If you want a close bond with your deaf child then its time to put signs in your life, because you will reget it down the roads from now, I'm not kidding either.

Enough said by me. :)
 
shel90 said:
Yes I do, That is how English is taught thru using ASL..
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That what I've been saying three times on this thread but it seems that you had trouble understanding me, so therefore you use ASL all the way in the classroom. I rest my case. :thumb:
 
shel90 said:
:ty:

Do the deaf ed programs use the BiBi approach in Australia?
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Yes, a few, but which one to be precise, I cannot say.

However, I know of maybe three or four programs that uses BiBi in Victoria and Sydney. My old stomping ground (deaf school) use bi-bi and with some success, so it seem.
 
Cheri said:
From what I know is the bi bi methodology is 20 years old, You have told me this was a new program instead of trusting your word for it, I should have done more research but the problem is there wasn't enough, from what I've came to learned that the first school that use the bi bi program was in 1989 which it was The Learning center for the deaf children in Framingham, Mass. And then in 1990 Indiana for the deaf use bi bi program too and so on. The point is that this methodology is just not well known.

This debate is never going to be completely resolved, we go around and around. Everyone has an opinion. But from what I've see on here is some of you are making TC so bad to the public. I have been in a TC program and I have nothing bad to say about that methodology. I got to learned signs, lip reading and speech. Who could ask for anything better than that?

Some of you have said that Bi Bi is better than TC or better than Cued Speech or better than Oralism. The point is no deaf is the same as another deaf person. What might work for this deaf individual might not work for another deaf individual. Now I can really see how hearing parents must felt when they're trying to do all that they can. Education is an extiemely important to ALL OF US.

My goal is to get all hearing parents of deaf children to get involved in ASL, I don't care what Education they decide on for their child, I just want them to use signs too and stop focusing on hearing and speech ONLY, Its the same I would say to Deaf Adults to stop focusing on ASL ONLY. Come on, we should not leave no child left behind. They have that right to know as many communication tools as possible.

Now for hearing parents of deaf children, ASL has been around since 1817, and it should be well perseved as long as there's deaf people on this earth with or without the use of cochlear implants. If you want a close bond with your deaf child then its time to put signs in your life, because you will reget it down the roads from now, I'm not kidding either.

Enough said by me. :)
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Twenty years for a teaching methodology is relatively new. And the fact that it hasn't been widely employed or tested empirically for results contributes to it being a newer concept. Only recently has it begun to be looked at as a method to be implemented on a widespread basis. It is being looked at more closely because the few schools that have used a true Bi-Bi model have achieved good results.
 
jillio said:
Twenty years for a teaching methodology is relatively new. And the fact that it hasn't been widely employed or tested empirically for results contributes to it being a newer concept. Only recently has it begun to be looked at as a method to be implemented on a widespread basis. It is being looked at more closely because the few schools that have used a true Bi-Bi model have achieved good results.
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20 years old does not consider new to me, but whatever :roll:
 
Cheri said:
That what I've been saying three times on this thread but it seems that you had trouble understanding me, so therefore you use ASL all the way in the classroom. I rest my case. :thumb:
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English thru ASL is ASL all the way? Ok whatever u say. I am in the program 5 days a week so I know what goes on. Maybe if u worked in a BiBi program, u can see yourself what it is like.

I have never said TC was bad...just that it would be more appropriate for a one-on-one teaching. How can a teacher teach a classroom full of student effectively using pure models of ASL and English at the same time. The teacher would have to refert to Sim-Comming which is like Jillo said, it gives a distorted model of both languages.

I took the time to explain to you how I teach but instead I get criticized. If u dont agree, that's fine.
 
Cheri said:
20 years old does not consider new to me, but whatever :roll:
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In the field of education and research, it is cosidered new. U dont have to agree to it but those who have worked or studied in this field especially when it comes to research understands that the BiBi approach is still relatively new.
 
Miss-Delectable said:
I concur with that :)
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Thank you..it is nice to get appreciated for the job I do. Too often, we teachers, at the Deaf schools get criticized and blamed for all the problems with Deaf education. It is not an easy job when dealing with a very unique population.
 
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