Deaf Community vs. ASL students

shel90 said:
No, it is not about being worried what they are saying about us. It is because if they are in the middle of a conversation and all of sudden they drop signing and continue the conversation within themselves that leaves us out of the conversation. They have to realize that if they really want to be included and dont want to be left out, then they cant do that to us too.
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Exactly. It is about mutual respect and consideration.
 
shel90 said:
About feeling left out...this is going to be ironic. There was a group of ASL students at a Deaf event one time about a couple of years ago whom joined one conversation my friends and I were having, which is not a problem but what happened was that they would start chatting away with each other without signing in the middle of the conversation leaving us Deafies out. That is a big NO NO. Of course by doing that, they will get purposely ignored for the rest of the evening cuz it would turn a lot of people off.
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I experienced this and agree with NO NO. My roommate studies ASL and invited ASL classmates to our apartment. No problem and I said I will have conversations with them. But some stopped signing and just talk with each other, facing away. I told my roommate no way again because I can't understand and the ASL students don't try sometimes. Now we sometimes have other ASL students here for practice but only 1 or 2 because more will talk with each other and not sign. :squint:
 
jillio said:
I never thought about that. And, beginning signers do tend to drop their signs whenthey are talking to another hearie in the presence of a deafie. Agree......that's a big no, no!
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I've seen that happen at the place where I take ASL lessons. After class, the students start chatting away in voice, and stop signing. I always feel like it's totally rude to our teacher (she's deaf). I usually try to keep her aware by signing things like "They're talking about her daughter and how she got into an argument with her.... They're talking about her boyfriend.... They're talking about being in debt.... etc." It sort of makes me angry, because there's really no reason for them to drop their signs -- they're good enough that they can hold conversations in ASL, so it's just plain being inconsiderate. One time I got angry enough that I blurted out "Why do you guys stop signing as soon as class is over? Can't you see that there are deaf people in this room?" I got some embarrassed and angry stares... :eek3: It didn't change their behavior though. Next week, they were dropping sign again.
 
I noticed that happened the last night of my beginner ASL class, when our instructor's Deaf friend joined us. It wasn't until the class ended, when the instructor and her friend began signing to each other... and the rest of us started talking amongst ourselves.

It just felt odd, as if both groups had left each other out.
 
Calphool said:
I've seen that happen at the place where I take ASL lessons. After class, the students start chatting away in voice, and stop signing. I always feel like it's totally rude to our teacher (she's deaf). I usually try to keep her aware by signing things like "They're talking about her daughter and how she got into an argument with her.... They're talking about her boyfriend.... They're talking about being in debt.... etc." It sort of makes me angry, because there's really no reason for them to drop their signs -- they're good enough that they can hold conversations in ASL, so it's just plain being inconsiderate. One time I got angry enough that I blurted out "Why do you guys stop signing as soon as class is over? Can't you see that there are deaf people in this room?" I got some embarrassed and angry stares... :eek3: It didn't change their behavior though. Next week, they were dropping sign again.
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And the ironic thing is that these are probably the same type of ASL student that would attend a deaf event and complain that they were shunned or left out. Incondiserate and thoughtless toward others but they can't seem to recognize it in their own behavior. Respect and consideration is a 2 way street.
 
shel90 said:
If you are being ignored, pls consider that Deaf people are not here to teach you nor to improve your ASL skills.
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Our teacher made it clear that even though the events we were attending were welcoming to students overall, we might encounter people who would have that kind of feeling. At the events I went to there were many deaf people who were so charmingly polite with us knuckleheads, so that the deaf people who didn't want to deal with us didn't have to. It worked out nicely.

This is also the reason I was defending the members of the deaf club to that gentleman (sorry, I forgot his name) who was offended by their seemingly unfriendly attitude...because really, I see y'all's point.
 
Interpretrator said:
Our teacher made it clear that even though the events we were attending were welcoming to students overall, we might encounter people who would have that kind of feeling. At the events I went to there were many deaf people who were so charmingly polite with us knuckleheads, so that the deaf people who didn't want to deal with us didn't have to. It worked out nicely.

This is also the reason I was defending the members of the deaf club to that gentleman (sorry, I forgot his name) who was offended by their seemingly unfriendly attitude...because really, I see y'all's point.
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That was JonRobert. I remember him well, because when I defended the deaf community for their attitudes, he accused me of being anti-hearing!:giggle:
 
Interpretrator said:
Our teacher made it clear that even though the events we were attending were welcoming to students overall, we might encounter people who would have that kind of feeling. At the events I went to there were many deaf people who were so charmingly polite with us knuckleheads, so that the deaf people who didn't want to deal with us didn't have to. It worked out nicely.

This is also the reason I was defending the members of the deaf club to that gentleman (sorry, I forgot his name) who was offended by their seemingly unfriendly attitude...because really, I see y'all's point.
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I guess that statement of mine didnt come out as I intentioned it to. It sounded kinda harsh and I didnt realize it. When I was typing it I was thinking of what happened to my friend at an ASL play. She and her friend sat next to some ASL students who were in ASL II. She chatted with them before the play and all was well until the play started. During the play, they kept asking her what the performers were saying or what did this or that mean. My friend got really pissed cuz she didnt really get to enjoy the show. That is what my comment was intented for...just to make those who are learning that sometimes there is a right place and time for asking those kinds of questions and this time was definitely not one.
 
having a mixed group is riduculous for me. I guess im not as smooth as some others, because i am one of those people who tend to drop my hands when i voice. i dont do it on purpose, it happens. the 2 languages just arent compatible.

even in turn-taking. when i am having a spoken conversation, in which i am signing as well, the rapid-fire nature of english makes it so that even if a deaf person is watching, their head would be spinning in circles trying to catch what everyone is saying. the nature of english converations involving numberous people...its jsut not possible, even if everyone is signing.

i much prefer to just turn off my voice, and exclude the hearing people, cause they are alot more forgiving than the deafies are if you exclude them.

its gotten to the point that i keep my hearing friends and my deaf friends seperate....well the few hearing friends i have left.
 
Well, either the teacher stated the assignment wrong or the student misunderstood the assignment...

The teacher probably made it sound like the students had to make a direct approach towards deaf people to find out about deaf culture.

OR

The students probably thought the teacher wanted to take a direct approach.


Remember, it's not just a problem between deaf and hearing people... it's also a problem between people of different cultures. Some people accidentally make uncomfortable direct approaches towards others of different cultures.
 
I think it is so nice of them to be part of us and us be part of them. Why separate us, it is attiude many deaf people still carry from old days. Deaf only, keep hearing away from us? One thing I learned about my job, I met so many of them and I was so awesome with them for that they get to use ASL with me and they knew I am deaf. They took ASL classes and attend deaf events. It worked very well so far and why should things need to change for worse?
 
Are you hearing? The problem is that we would like to have ASL students to communicate with us without asking us to teach them and also when they don't want to sign and start talking to other hearing people. It make us feel left out and if the hearies don't understand us, then they need to have more training time in the ASL class. We, deafies, like to socialize without the hearing asking for us to help them with their signs. We need our break to socialize with no voice and just sign away what we want to say. We are happy being in the Deaf event, like the Deaf Clubs. So have some respect for us deafies, eh? :ty:
 
Being an ASL teacher I feel I have a good perspective in this conversation. I have ASL I, II and III students. I have NEVER told my students to attend Deaf events because I think it's a place for people to socialize who know each other and relate to each other. It would be like crashing a wedding you weren't invited to. When I want my students to get "hands on" experience using their ASL skills, I ask my mom to come in to class and sign with the girls. They are usually nervous at first because they have never had a conversation with a Deaf person before but once they get comfortable you can see their confidence increase as well as their signing skills. My mom is a very patient person and when she comes in to my classes, she is accepting that the time spent will be for teaching the students. The difference at a Deaf social event is that those people did not CHOOSE to attend for the purpose of teaching ASL students how to sign better. I agree with Shelly that those events should be off limits to people who just want to better their signing skills. There are other ways to do it successfully.

Yes it is important for ASL students to sharpen their skills and the only way they can do it is by practicing. They just need people willing to take the time to work with them. The important thing is that whoever does it should be a willing participant and not someone who is bothered at a social event. JMO.
 
I can see the points made in this thread. Maybe, a suggestion to those who are in sign 1 and 2 can go to the events upon observation, the environment, what they learned and saw etc.. Just to see how communication in sign language is real important in the deaf community. Bec eventually they will need to interact with the deaf community oneday when they become more advanced at a later time.
 
traciedowell said:
Being an ASL teacher I feel I have a good perspective in this conversation. I have ASL I, II and III students. I have NEVER told my students to attend Deaf events because I think it's a place for people to socialize who know each other and relate to each other. It would be like crashing a wedding you weren't invited to. When I want my students to get "hands on" experience using their ASL skills, I ask my mom to come in to class and sign with the girls. They are usually nervous at first because they have never had a conversation with a Deaf person before but once they get comfortable you can see their confidence increase as well as their signing skills. My mom is a very patient person and when she comes in to my classes, she is accepting that the time spent will be for teaching the students. The difference at a Deaf social event is that those people did not CHOOSE to attend for the purpose of teaching ASL students how to sign better. I agree with Shelly that those events should be off limits to people who just want to better their signing skills. There are other ways to do it successfully.

Yes it is important for ASL students to sharpen their skills and the only way they can do it is by practicing. They just need people willing to take the time to work with them. The important thing is that whoever does it should be a willing participant and not someone who is bothered at a social event. JMO.
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:gpost:
From your post, I have no doubt that you are one of those teachers who not only teaches the language, but provides and accurate and sensitive picture of Deaf culture and of those who are members of that culture! :applause: Kudos to you, and to your mom, as well, for her willingness to help others to understand and become more tolerant.
 
jillio said:
:gpost:
From your post, I have no doubt that you are one of those teachers who not only teaches the language, but provides and accurate and sensitive picture of Deaf culture and of those who are members of that culture! :applause: Kudos to you, and to your mom, as well, for her willingness to help others to understand and become more tolerant.
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You're absolutely right Jillio. Actually in the first few classes when I have a new group of students, I teach them about Deaf culture at the same time as the alphabet. It's a good foundation for hearing people to begin with so they can have an understanding for where Deaf people are coming from, not just the language. Knowing ASL is great but understanding it's importance is even better. :ty:
 
traciedowell said:
You're absolutely right Jillio. Actually in the first few classes when I have a new group of students, I teach them about Deaf culture at the same time as the alphabet. It's a good foundation for hearing people to begin with so they can have an understanding for where Deaf people are coming from, not just the language. Knowing ASL is great but understanding it's importance is even better. :ty:
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YW.
 
Kaitin said:
I experienced this and agree with NO NO. My roommate studies ASL and invited ASL classmates to our apartment. No problem and I said I will have conversations with them. But some stopped signing and just talk with each other, facing away. I told my roommate no way again because I can't understand and the ASL students don't try sometimes. Now we sometimes have other ASL students here for practice but only 1 or 2 because more will talk with each other and not sign. :squint:
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Print this threat out, take it to the classes, hell even get the ASL teacher to say " this is mandatory reading, because I do not accept this behaviour of stop signing after class, where we deaf are still here, an also it is a high time to practice your 'informal-after class conversations in sign', while it is also a mark of respect to us, the ASL tutors/teachers as does to the deaf community, by deciding not to 'unintentionally shutting us off, by way of disspelling your visits to ASL classes as a mere 'quaint addition' to your already richer [hearing] knowledge, having said this, it is considered as an insult, no excuses like, "oh we are tired and we making freinds with other hearing people attending to the same class, and 'how dare you deafies dictate us NOT to speak after the lessons??!

indeed this is gonna be really touchy, I wonder so if we need another thread just to banter, exchange ideas to develop this 'how to approach hearing to change their attitudes towards learning Sign Language ( I didnt say ASL, because im not from USA) and associated issues and situation of handling this tendancy they have to "drop sign, on excuse of being tired oh we forgot our teacher is deaf - hush about it must be awful to feel to miss out and yet continue (!)..sort of silent shared reactions among hearing sign language learners.

but yeah, i still reckon only if some printed document to explain the rules, and protocols if you will, and such to rid this dreadful habits hearing people have of dropping signs or bugging for more signs inappropriately.
 
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