Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

[jillio]

Absolutely..... when exposed to deaf/Deaf culture, sign should be known, or learned...

But many deaf children not exposed to Deaf culture.... not because of the lack of willing, but due to the non-availability of such a culture.

BTW... "I mean psychologically speaking, being shunned by people you relate to most because you are not deaf "enough" can be psychologically damaging.!" that would be a disgraceful attitude of Deaf society if that would be the case. That would be something for the Deaf culture to solve, not for a child...
I know it happens.... but I believe that any person seeking a connection with Deaf culture should be received with open arms.

Deaf Culture is available world wide. And the child who has not been given the tools to communicate with those members of that culture when they decide to do so has been handicapped by those unwilling to provide access to sign. Deaf children who are kept in an oral only hearing environment without any exposure do not know what they are missing until they are able to free themselves from their restrictive environment. Likewise, they grow up knowing that they are different from everyone with whom they have contact, and do not a have any sort of reference point for that difference. The psychological and social implications of such are well documented.

 

[VamPyroX]

I am oral Deaf. I do not prefer to speak, I prefer to communicate. I am dying for my parents to learn sign, and not so that I can totally turn off my voice but so that I do not have to interpret for Deaf friends. I have asked why and the reply was simple - lazy. True, my mother started learning Signed English but as soon as I had success orally it stopped. That, and the speech therapist saying if you sign his speech will get worse.

What's especially disgusting of the strict oral only approach is that it denies the right of kids just to be kids. Kids should be allowed to freely socialise and study school, and literacy, all of which are important, and speech is just a side benefit...but whom does this most benefit? The parents, of course!

To your response about guaranteeing access in shops, etc. there is a need for the recognition of Deafness as a linguistic minority that deserves accommodation guaranteed by the ADA. Reasonable of course, and quite frankly if a shop owner refuses to write back and forth with a Deaf person who can't speak then their business really isn't GOOD business! (not to mention unethical). One of the things that disgusts me about the USA is its monolingualistic emphasis. America is NOT the only country in the world and more people SHOULD be bi and multi lingual, myself bilingual. If you look at Europeans, it is commonplace for them to be bilingual! Why not Americans? We have come so far in terms of technology and yet we are SO far behind in language education and education as a whole! How many people have to stand up and say that learning is life-long before people believe it? Being bilingual and multilingual is so much beneficial in the business world. Hopefully we will have a President soon someday who not only encourages American bilingualism but is bilingual.

Who benefits from a bilingual America? EVERYONE! That includes ASL as a real language.

(P.S. - Bravo Holly!)

I have a similar problem with my parents.

While growing up, I was always oral. I started at an oral school for a few years. At the age of 5, I moved out of state and went to mainstream school that had a deaf program. That was my first exposure to sign language. Yet, I still communicated orally with my family. They never used sign language until I was old enough to bring my deaf friends over. That's when they began to wish that they had learned sign language. Since my younger brother had a couple deaf friends, he learned some sign language. Even today, he's encouraging his kids to know how to communicate with me properly.

I guess what parents need is more of other deaf people to encourage them to use sign language more often.

 

[Cloggy]

They are still deaf, cloggy. And those children who grew up without CI but were still considered to be oral successes are still saying the same thing. How exactly do you account for the number of CI implanted children who are still in need of other accommodations other than those provided in an oral only environment? It would be nice if CI had proven to be the panacea that it has been portrayed to be, but unfortunately, that simply isn't the case.

You keep focusing of them still being deaf.... I focus on them being able to hear.... that's where there's a huge difference, that's where there's a huge difference in experience..

 

[shel90]

You keep focusing of them still being deaf.... I focus on them being able to hear.... that's where there's a huge difference, that's where there's a huge difference in experience..

If they can hear so well, then why the CIs havent worked for all children? In that case, the children are still deaf children and that needs to be taken in account.

 

[loml]

agreed, but what do you do when the child wants to be accepted by a deaf community but isn't because they don't know sign?

Holly - If a community is not accepting of individuals, regardless of their differences, then one must question the values of that community.

Isn't it best that parent's do what it takes to help their child fit into both? I mean psychologically speaking, being shunned by people you relate to most because you are not deaf "enough" can be psychologically damaging. Being able to sign and understand the deaf culture a bit can help hearing deaf children fit in.

Holly - Not all deaf people seek to be part of a Deaf community. What do you see as the motivation for seeking out relationships with individuals who in turn, would shun them for not being deaf "enough"?

 

[shel90]

I think it is cuz of the communication barrier between the oral deaf person and the signing deaf person that causes this kind of rift.

 

[loml]

You keep focusing of them still being deaf.... I focus on them being able to hear.... that's where there's a huge difference, that's where there's a huge difference in experience.

Cloggy - I can imagine, in ten - fifteen years, children of Lottes' generation, sharing their experiences with families, educational establishments, rehabilitation and medical domains, via the internet, perhaps even through the medium of a forum.

 

[Holly]

Holly - If a community is not accepting of individuals, regardless of their differences, then one must question the values of that community.
_____

Yes, but that is one specific community, the world is filled with all kinds of communities (including deaf ones) where a person could be accepted.

Holly - Not all deaf people seek to be part of a Deaf community. What do you see as the motivation for seeking out relationships with individuals who in turn, would shun them for not being deaf "enough"?
_____

Agreed. Not all deaf people want to be. So if those deaf people choose to be oral only and/or remain constantly in an environment catered to the hearing then they can, it is a personal choice.
Being shunned for not being "enough" of something is part of life. We are all shunned by certain groups for different reasons throughout our life. What we must do is find the group that accepts us for who we are. It has been my experienece that the people who accept me for who I am are the people who are somewhat like me and understand what it is i'm going through.
A person who happens to be deaf has the same choice, they can either choose the group that best accepts them (this could actually be either hearing or deaf people). Or simply put up with the environment they are in. Either one is a personal choice, and neither should be criticized.

 

[jillio]

You keep focusing of them still being deaf.... I focus on them being able to hear.... that's where there's a huge difference, that's where there's a huge difference in experience..

I focus in them all still being deaf because that is reality, cloggy. They can hear with an assistive devise. Just like some deaf can hear with HA as an assistive devise. Underneath that devise is still a deaf child.

 

[jillio]

Cloggy - I can imagine, in ten - fifteen years, children of Lottes' generation, sharing their experiences with families, educational establishments, rehabilitation and medical domains, via the internet, perhaps even through the medium of a forum.

Yep, I can imagine it too. And we will still be hearing the same stories from them as adults that we hear from orally raised adults today, and the same stories we heard from orally raised adults 15 years ago, and 25 years ago, and 30 years ago. It seems that some refuse to learn from the history that is shared with them.

 

[Cloggy]

agreed, but what do you do when the child wants to be accepted by a deaf community but isn't because they don't know sign? Isn't it best that parent's do what it takes to help their child fit into both? I mean psychologically speaking, being shunned by people you relate to most because you are not deaf "enough" can be psychologically damaging. Being able to sign and understand the deaf culture a bit can help hearing deaf children fit in.

Why are you assuming that my daughter would relate most to people that are deaf and cannot hear. Wouldn't she relate most to people that are deaf and can hear?

Any time she wants to get connected to deaf people and learn sign, we'll be there to help and where possible guide her...
At the moment it is not relevant. She's growing up hearing with hearing people around her, and being deaf with or without hearing will have it's challenges.
At the moment, she decides to hear. She want's to hear her environment. Be it just sounds around and outside the house, voices of family-members, people, cars etc... she want's it to be a part of her world....
How we know... because she wants to have the CI on.
Why make her learn an extra language... we can do that later... for now, she's communications vey well with the languages she knows.
And regarding Deaf community.... that's far, far away..

 

[Cloggy]

Deaf Culture is available world wide. ....

Nonsense..

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy - I can imagine, in ten - fifteen years, children of Lottes' generation, sharing their experiences with families, educational establishments, rehabilitation and medical domains, via the internet, perhaps even through the medium of a forum.

Looking forward to that. Would be great to hear from teenagers that grew up with CI....
Actually, there are many places where experiences are already being shared between parents... but not here...

 

[Cloggy]

Yep, I can imagine it too. And we will still be hearing the same stories from them as adults that we hear from orally raised adults today, and the same stories we heard from orally raised adults 15 years ago, and 25 years ago, and 30 years ago. It seems that some refuse to learn from the history that is shared with them.

Sure JT.... you know it all. You can even look into the future and and project your negative view on that....
You should look forward with the wonderful feeling that you will be proven wrong !!

 

[Holly]

Why are you assuming that my daughter would relate most to people that are deaf and cannot hear. Wouldn't she relate most to people that are deaf and can hear?

Many deaf people can "hear", tons of deaf people within a community can hear also. But many of them know sign, and prefer it. I never said your daughter woudn't want to relate to other deaf people who can hear. In fact I said quite the opposite. I said that deaf people (able to hear or not), and all people, should find the group that understands them best. In your daughters case it would most likely be others who are deaf and hearing. But don't you want her to have as many friends as possible. Knowing sign opens up a world of opportunities for her to meet people she might not others have known. Just like knowing any other language. There is a reason that parents are buying all the "signing time" and other sign language videos for their hearing children. Because learning at least some sign has been proven to be beneficial to both hearing and deaf, and yes...deaf who can hear.

 

[deafskeptic]

Many deaf people can "hear", tons of deaf people within a community can hear also. But many of them know sign, and prefer it. I never said your daughter woudn't want to relate to other deaf people who can hear. In fact I said quite the opposite. I said that deaf people (able to hear or not), and all people, should find the group that understands them best. In your daughters case it would most likely be others who are deaf and hearing. But don't you want her to have as many friends as possible. Knowing sign opens up a world of opportunities for her to meet people she might not others have known. Just like knowing any other language. There is a reason that parents are buying all the "signing time" and other sign language videos for their hearing children. Because learning at least some sign has been proven to be beneficial to both hearing and deaf, and yes...deaf who can hear.

 

[jillio]

Nonsense..

No, Cloggy, its not nonsense. It happens to be a cultural, anthroplological fact. Simply because you choose not torecognize it does not make it nonsense.

 

[jillio]

Sure JT.... you know it all. You can even look into the future and and project your negative view on that....
You should look forward with the wonderful feeling that you will be proven wrong !!

Open your eyes, Cloggy. You remind me of the proverbial ostrich. Sheltering yourself from reality serves no good purpose.

I can't predict the future. However, I can make an educated guess of future events based onthe actions being repeated and the results that have been obtained from the same actions earlier. And history is in the process of repeating itself thanks to that "if I choose not to recognize it, it doesn't exist" attidtude.

 

[jillio]

Looking forward to that. Would be great to hear from teenagers that grew up with CI....
Actually, there are many places where experiences are already being shared between parents... but not here...

We've already heard from teenagers who grew up with CI. There was a discussion regarding such aboutthis time last year. If you remember, someone posted an abstract about the satisfaction of teenagers regarding their CIs and how well they were able to assimilate into hearing culutre that had yet to be published. However, when the study was published, it painted quite a different picture, and once again affirmed that the students in the study who were most satisfied with their CI were the ones being exposed to both sign and speech, with several deaf friends. I believe this study was out of the Oxford Journal of Deaf Studies and Edcuation. Surely you rememberthis thread as you had quite a bit to say before the actual full research report was published and accessed.

Likewise, we are seeing deaf teenagers and young adults with CI in post-secondary education that have grown up using the devise. They are requiring the same academic accommodattions that their predessors with HA on have required. Nothing new under the sun.

We have a parent on this board with 2 deaf teenagers that have grown up with CI. Even though the mother claims that they have completely assimilated into an oral only world, they still require CART services in order to fully access the academic curriculum, and the mother has also admitted that they miss much in the academic environment. Likewise, she has told us theat they are both seeking out deaf, signing friends.

There are teens and young adults on this board that have posted regarding their experiences with CI. They are speaking out, Peitre. It is you who are refusing to listen to what they are saying.

 

[jillio]

Agreed. Holly has an amazing grasp of the issues. She is quite the insightful young woman.