Deaf,asl,culture

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babyangel5302

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do you think someone should be looked down on because they chose the oral route instead of asl and they are learning it? ...does that make them less accepted in the deaf world! if they are deaf

many people these days with CI's. and different tech. and diff,.types of schools have lack of resources to learn asl...

what do you think? and plz dont be mean.
can u still be accepted into the deaf culture without asl?
strong topic at my school
 
i've been myself for almost 4 years with the comunity now, I... don't think a person that doesn't know SL (sign language), could be inserted normaly in the deaf culture.
that's like me, living in US, wanted to be inserted in their culture not knowing english.
SL is probably the most important aspect of being Deaf (meaning, as cultural group, not clinic)
 
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babyangel5302 said:
do you think someone should be looked down on because they chose the oral route instead of asl and they are learning it? ...does that make them less accepted in the deaf world! if they are deaf

many people these days with CI's. and different tech. and diff,.types of schools have lack of resources to learn asl...

what do you think? and plz dont be mean.
can u still be accepted into the deaf culture without asl?
strong topic at my school
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Oral will make it completely impossible to be accepted.

If you learn ASL and work to fit in you can be accepted, but you can not have an attitude about how you must be accepted just because you are deaf.
 
well BOTTESINI
well i know asl my friend doesnt she is wanting to be in the DEAF CULTURE. She was raised oral and often gets mad at me because she doesnt know asl.
She has a CI. and she wonders why we as deaf people never accept the Oral Deaf,I do I never said that. But that is intresting. WHY so much hate with our brothers and sisters. Somewhat we are in the same situation. All this culture stuff is making me lose friends who have CI's and take the oral route. its making me ashamed to even be part of such a dysfunctional culture.
 
babyangel5302 said:
All this culture stuff is making me lose friends who have CI's and take the oral route. its making me ashamed to even be part of such a dysfunctional culture.
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Spend some time in the hearing world, and you will find that every other culture out there is equally just as dysfunctional as the Deaf culture. I know, I have been an participate in other cultures and subcultures, and for that reason I went back to the Deaf culture. So don't be ashamed of the culture itself, but rather of the people that are causing that problem.

Give it some time, usually deaf people go to the Deaf culture after they have been frustrated with the hearing world long enough. Just ignore the elitism, which every culture has, plough through and show them that you are worth talking to.

Deaf culture is tethered to the language though, because it is the basis in which there is no communication barrier and doesn't require ears. Even hard-of-hearing, once they know ASL, have a tendency to drift back toward the Deaf culture in the end.

Try teaching your friend ASL? You can be both oral and Deaf, just remember that the language is the stronghold that hold the whole thing together. Usually the Deaf are open-minded if people are making an effort to learn the language.
 
ASL is fully accessible to any deaf/hoh person while spoken English is not so in order for language and communication to flow freely without any misunderstandings or anyone being left out, ASL is used by the Deaf community.

If some are oral and want to keep it that way, how will they communicate with several Deaf members who do not having any lip reading skills or have any speech skills?

That's the whole point of ASL..it is visually accessible to a community regarless of how much or how little hearing they have.
 
I'm deaf and I accept just about anyone who's deaf, hard of hearing or has cochlear implant nor wears hearing aids even if they were raised oral, cued speech, ASL, SEE, PSE, or total communication (speaking and signing) not everyone in the deaf community are deaf prides, some of them are and some of them aren't. It all depends on the individuals. ;)

I've been judged by some deaf prides for being raised in an oral setting and for using my voice while signing. :confused: You can't make everyone happy you know? :)
 
Yes and no

Hi

This raises a question I ask myself daily. Depands what part of the Deaf community you what to be a part of.

I cant learn sls because I only have the use of one hand due to cerebral palsy.

Another problem I come across is that I dont have a Deaf voice.

I am part of the cued speech community for the above reasons.

But that doesnt not mean I dont go to the Deaf club on a friday when I am in town and have a drink.

National Cued Speech Association

See above link for more on cued speech
 
thanks cheri very good point i agree
and inmate that is correct i have a friend that uses cued speech very cool
 
I think oral Deaf should be considered part of the community because both oral and signing Deaf both have the experience of deafness in common. Oral Deaf just like signing Deaf have had the every day experiences of being yelled at, having people get mad for "ignoring them," etc. Yes sign languages are visual languages meant to be accessible to all Deaf/Hoh despite hearing status, but many oral Deaf don't choose to be raised oral, or are raised oral for other reasons, for example because of Cerebral Palsy or another medical condition.

You can probably tell I am all about breaking down walls, not putting them up. :)
 
I have to agree with souggy. Why don't you teach your friend ASL or any sign language that can be accepted into the Deaf community? If your friend want to be in the Deaf community, then she can learn to sign so that we can understand her better than trying to lipread someone's lip. Lipreading is very difficult, no matter how hard we try and we have to ask them repeat several times or lot. Your friend can not make any Deaf person who are in the Deaf Culture and sign in the Deaf community to have them talk oral to your friend. So it is important that she has to learn ASL before joining in the Deaf community. Good luck, babyangel. :fingersx: :thumb:
 
CJB said:
I think oral Deaf should be considered part of the community because both oral and signing Deaf both have the experience of deafness in common. Oral Deaf just like signing Deaf have had the every day experiences of being yelled at, having people get mad for "ignoring them," etc. Yes sign languages are visual languages meant to be accessible to all Deaf/Hoh despite hearing status, but many oral Deaf don't choose to be raised oral, or are raised oral for other reasons, for example because of Cerebral Palsy or another medical condition.

You can probably tell I am all about breaking down walls, not putting them up. :)
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You have agood point but how would that solve the problem if many Deaf people can't lipread or don't have any speech skills whatsover? How would the oral deaf person communicate with them with ease? Their communiocation would be awkward and difficult which can result in a communication barrier between the oral deaf and many members putting them back at square one. Oral deaf people are just as capable of learning ASL if they don't have CP or other mobility issues. I was an oral deaf and I learned ASL so I can communicate with a majority of Deaf people not just a select few in the Deaf community.

Besides, when there is a large group, even myself, as a former oral deaf, can't understand spoken language most of them time like I do with ASL.

However, nobody can force the girl to learn so she may only be able to communicate with a few Deaf people without any difficulities. Up to her.
 
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That is like taking an American and dropping him off in the middle of China and him hollaring accept me in the Chinese culture for I am human too.

Culture is more of social groups that have things in commom socially.
 
CJB said:
I think oral Deaf should be considered part of the community because both oral and signing Deaf both have the experience of deafness in common. Oral Deaf just like signing Deaf have had the every day experiences of being yelled at, having people get mad for "ignoring them," etc. Yes sign languages are visual languages meant to be accessible to all Deaf/Hoh despite hearing status, but many oral Deaf don't choose to be raised oral, or are raised oral for other reasons, for example because of Cerebral Palsy or another medical condition.

You can probably tell I am all about breaking down walls, not putting them up. :)
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i think it would be "nice"... but its not possible.
they share a physical condition, but it isnt enough to be part of the community.
 
Communication should be a two way street between deaf and hearing. The deaf culture is really a sub-culture within any given culture. What I mean is there are deaf people throughout the world and they are sub-cultures within the native culture. Here in the United states the American culture consists of English speaking Americans along with deaf Americans that use English, ASL and many other modes of communication. There are also many other sub-cultures in America but that is out of context here.

It would seem to me that you would want to be a part of the native culture and find ways to communicate with eachother. Otherwise you are somewhat isolating yourself. Since ASL has no written form and it is not realistic to expect the entire hearing population (the majority) to learn ASL, English would appear to be the middle ground.

I think it is important for deaf folks in America to learn English. I also think that it is important for family and friends of deaf individuals to learn whatever communication method that works to communicate with the deaf family member or friend weither that be ASL, SEE, CS English or any combination. But for the deaf individual to be able to communicate with the native society as a whole, they need to learn the native language of the majority.
 
rockdrummer said:
Communication should be a two way street between deaf and hearing. The deaf culture is really a sub-culture within any given culture. What I mean is there are deaf people throughout the world and they are sub-cultures within the native culture. Here in the United states the American culture consists of English speaking Americans along with deaf Americans that use English, ASL and many other modes of communication. There are also many other sub-cultures in America but that is out of context here.

It would seem to me that you would want to be a part of the native culture and find ways to communicate with eachother. Otherwise you are somewhat isolating yourself. Since ASL has no written form and it is not realistic to expect the entire hearing population (the majority) to learn ASL, English would appear to be the middle ground.

I think it is important for deaf folks in America to learn English. I also think that it is important for family and friends of deaf individuals to learn whatever communication method that works to communicate with the deaf family member or friend weither that be ASL, SEE, CS English or any combination. But for the deaf individual to be able to communicate with the native society as a whole, they need to learn the native language of the majority.
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That's why a majority of Deaf people are bilingual even if they don't have speech or lipreading skills. Lipreadin is very difficult for me and I get 50% of what is said if I am lucky but I am fluent in English regardless. Same with my brother who has no lipreading or speech skills. All deaf children in the American school systems are taught English and a majority of them master it.

Speech and lipreading skills are a whole separate issue. This person thinks oral deaf people should be part of Deaf culture and not have to learn ASL. that's where I am basing my questions on.
 
I am deafblind. I am only just now learning tactile sign language.

I think oral deaf should make an effort to communicate with signing deaf if they want to seek acceptance. However, it is harder for some to learn then others. Also as CJB said we all have the same experiences. I think signing deaf have it easier then oral deaf since they have signing to fall back on rather then having to lipread all the time. I used to lipread before I lost my sight.

I tried to learn sign language when I was at Doncaster Deaf college but I found it difficult. Mainly I suspect as I'm not into mixing with other people much. After that I started to lose my sight. Then I was told signing wasn't possible if I can't see very well.

When I was homeless a Deaf woman from an organisation for the deaf was not interested in helping as I was deafblind (HOH and low vision) and at the time using oral communication although I know a little sign. I was introduced as just being oral and because of that they weren't interested in helping me. Even though I did know a little sign and wanted to improve on that but once another case worker discribed me as oral deaf they lost interest in me. Even though I tried to tell her I know a little signing. Oral was what was pushed on me, not my choice but it didn't make much differance to her.

Now I am learning that you don't need sight to sign if you use tactile signing. You can learn without signing but I'm still very slow at learning to sign via tactile methods.

Apart from that Deaf woman I mentioned would other deaf accept someone like me. I want to sign very much and always have done but I'm very slow at learning and mean communication would be slow with them resorting to fingerspelling and of course it would all have to be done tactile. As now I am Deafblind (Profoundly deaf and almost completely blind).
 
rockdrummer said:
The deaf culture is really a sub-culture within any given culture. What I mean is there are deaf people throughout the world and they are sub-cultures within the native culture.
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By the way, I would not use subculture in the context of your post. It is more closely associated with counterculture when popular music took a full swing and took a grasp on teenage generations in the 1940s and onward. I realize what you means, but the connotation of the word is not in your favour here. And since Deaf is not a "counterculture," I would not use it in your sentences.

I said the same thing years ago and got blasted for it by an interpreter and a few years later-- an anthropologist for bad choice of word. You have good intentions, but just a head-up that someone will or might have a problem with that word.
 
sub·cul·ture [ súb kùlchər ] (plural sub·cul·tures)


noun
Definition:

1. separate social group: an identifiably separate social group within a larger culture, especially one regarded as existing outside mainstream society

subculture definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

Subculture is the correct word. No doubt.
 
Bottesini said:
sub·cul·ture [ súb kùlchər ] (plural sub·cul·tures)


noun
Definition:

1. separate social group: an identifiably separate social group within a larger culture, especially one regarded as existing outside mainstream society

subculture definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

Subculture is the correct word. No doubt.
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I argued that as well at the time, however they pointed out that "subcultures" are deliberate deviants of the mainstream, while "cultures" are not. This is what make Deaf culture a culture of its own, and not as a subculture. Otherwise if we try to apply definition of subculture, people can argue that American culture is a subculture of the Anglos and so on...
 
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