deaf Asians and asian languages
- Thread starter netrox
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posts from hell
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I hung out with a few deafies from Shanghai... I was very impressed and will go as far to say the following: their english and ASL is better than mine.
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really she is have English and ASL wow! me too I have English and ASl
well, im actually asking because the written Asian langauges are NOT phonetic like Western langauges are. So, Asians are really learning two different languages - written Asian and spoken Asian since they don't correspond directly. You can have several dialects that cannot be understood but still understand written Asian language.
That made me wonder if deaf Asians are better at learning written Asian languages since they are "ideographic" and not phonetic than deaf Western people.
That made me wonder if deaf Asians are better at learning written Asian languages since they are "ideographic" and not phonetic than deaf Western people.
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ideographic? lol no not at all. English would be ideographic too.
You are incorrect.
"Written Chinese is not based predominantly on an alphabet or a compact syllabary. Instead, Chinese characters are glyphs whose components may depict objects or represent abstract notions."
and
The first two principles produce simple characters, known as 文 wén:
象形 xiàngxíng: Pictographs, in which the character is a graphical depiction of the object it denotes. Examples: 人 rén "person", 日 rì "sun", 木 mù "tree/wood".
指事 zhǐshì: Indicatives, or ideographs, in which the character represents an abstract notion. Examples: 上 shàng "up", 下 xià "down", 三 sān "three".
Written Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Written English is absolutely NOT ideographic at all. We don't use glyphs to represent ideas, we use letters to represent "sounds."
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You are incorrect.
"Written Chinese is not based predominantly on an alphabet or a compact syllabary. Instead, Chinese characters are glyphs whose components may depict objects or represent abstract notions."
and
The first two principles produce simple characters, known as 文 wén:
象形 xiàngxíng: Pictographs, in which the character is a graphical depiction of the object it denotes. Examples: 人 rén "person", 日 rì "sun", 木 mù "tree/wood".
指事 zhǐshì: Indicatives, or ideographs, in which the character represents an abstract notion. Examples: 上 shàng "up", 下 xià "down", 三 sān "three".
Written Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Written English is absolutely NOT ideographic at all. We don't use glyphs to represent ideas, we use letters to represent "sounds."
well you said "Asian Languages" so that's pretty dang broad. You're talking about over 100 different languages. Korean and Japanese language are phonetic. Both was influenced by Chinese language.
well Chinese is the most popular Asian language. Korean is more phonetic, I know that.
But really, my question concerns the ability of deaf Asians to read and write Asian languages in terms of difficulty compared to deaf Western people learning to read and write Western languages.
But really, my question concerns the ability of deaf Asians to read and write Asian languages in terms of difficulty compared to deaf Western people learning to read and write Western languages.
Hey Cliffposts from hell
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So are you looking down on the Deaf Asians???
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Yes, Chinese is more popular than English.
List of languages by number of native speakers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I feel so removed from Deaf Asian culture. I am NOT talking about Deaf asians here. It's NOT the same thing. I want to know more about deaf Asians who grew up in Asia and know about the deaf history in Asia. I want to know what the education for the deaf is like there.
The best so far is this one
Signs of Development in Deaf South & South-West Asia: histories, cultural identities, resistance to cultural imperialism | Independent Living Institute
I am just curious how deaf Asians are educated. We know that they have signed languages. But can they do well in written Asian languages? Chinese, specifically and how about ones that are more phonetic such as Korean?
Silentwolfdog
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Few months ago I went to Japan and met some deaf Japaneses. I had a cool conversation with one of them about deaf culture in Japan. One of his jobs is to research about Japanese Sign Language.
He told me the reason he is trying to research so that he can advocate to get it recognized by the government for varied reasons. He said generally, deaf Japaneses in Japan aren't doing so well, due to education system being heavily oral-based rather than using sign language.
He said that some went on to being able to speak, but being unable to read or write very well. As result of that, some of them have a great difficulty of getting a job since a lot of jobs want people to be able to read.
So he is pretty much in a position where he is trying to gather information to advocate for Japan's own sign language to be used in schools. Only recently, they set up the first school for the deaf that uses sign language rather than being oral-based.
I think they are pretty much praying that the school is doing well because it is the model for rest of others.
It was so fascinating listening to him.
Oh he also said since because Japan does not formally recognizes Japanese Sign Language, there's different JSL used in different parts of Japan. So I think they are also working on get it to be more uniform. Like how ASL is understandable by all states in US with some of regional signs.
I hope I can meet him again and see his progressive of his research. I hope he is successful with his project. Talking to him, you can see the passion he have for deaf culture in Japan and for deaf people to thrives using sign language.
He told me the reason he is trying to research so that he can advocate to get it recognized by the government for varied reasons. He said generally, deaf Japaneses in Japan aren't doing so well, due to education system being heavily oral-based rather than using sign language.
He said that some went on to being able to speak, but being unable to read or write very well. As result of that, some of them have a great difficulty of getting a job since a lot of jobs want people to be able to read.
So he is pretty much in a position where he is trying to gather information to advocate for Japan's own sign language to be used in schools. Only recently, they set up the first school for the deaf that uses sign language rather than being oral-based.
I think they are pretty much praying that the school is doing well because it is the model for rest of others.
It was so fascinating listening to him.
Oh he also said since because Japan does not formally recognizes Japanese Sign Language, there's different JSL used in different parts of Japan. So I think they are also working on get it to be more uniform. Like how ASL is understandable by all states in US with some of regional signs.
I hope I can meet him again and see his progressive of his research. I hope he is successful with his project. Talking to him, you can see the passion he have for deaf culture in Japan and for deaf people to thrives using sign language.
Silentwolfdog
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No problem. I just feel lucky to be able to meet deaf Japaneses on my trip.
sheila022-Props for you if you are gonna attempt to learn some Chinese. So I am assuming you were raised in US (or somewhere that speaks English) while your family stayed in China?
Japanese, I think is going to be third language I want to learn. Just got to find appropriate time and class for it. So the next time I go back to Japan, I can at least understand basic stuff that's written on wall/poster everywhere, lol. (and menus too)
Yeah, I hope to learn a few as well. I am doing internationalization work for a website and have translators do the job for their languages. Meanwhile, that made me wonder about deaf people in Asia and their fluency in WRITTEN languages.
It's just mind boggling how different Eastern cultures are from Western cultures in terms of languages. What I understand is that their written Chinese has greater understanding across Asians than their spoken dialects. That is what led me to wonder if deaf Asians have easier time understanding written languages but so far, it seems it's not the case. I don't understand. Maybe if a deaf Asian was raised with sign language from birth, he would have no problem reading Asian language?
Also, I understand that a lot of Asians have trouble keeping up with writing Asian characters even for simple concepts. For example, with Western languages, if we don't know how to spell it, we just spell it phonetically and people would understand. That's not the case with Chinese writing. If you don't know how it's stroked, you're out of luck. You literally have to memorize every single character.
It's just mind boggling how different Eastern cultures are from Western cultures in terms of languages. What I understand is that their written Chinese has greater understanding across Asians than their spoken dialects. That is what led me to wonder if deaf Asians have easier time understanding written languages but so far, it seems it's not the case. I don't understand. Maybe if a deaf Asian was raised with sign language from birth, he would have no problem reading Asian language?
Also, I understand that a lot of Asians have trouble keeping up with writing Asian characters even for simple concepts. For example, with Western languages, if we don't know how to spell it, we just spell it phonetically and people would understand. That's not the case with Chinese writing. If you don't know how it's stroked, you're out of luck. You literally have to memorize every single character.