Could we save oil shale in US?

Foxrac

Foxrac

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Hi all,

1) There is fact about oil shale require high oil price to survive, possibly over $70 per barrel and oil companies depend on high oil price to make more investment.

2) You know that OPEC want to shut oil shale down in the US by oversupply of oil.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...pec-warns-US-cannot-withstand-price-rout.html
http://www.theguardian.com/business...n-kill-us-shale-oil-price-down-seven-year-low

3) Many of us are excited about cheap gas price, but they do have consequence.

4) Many people don't want oil shale due to water issue, earthquake and lack of transparency, even there are some people celebrated that OPEC killed oil shale in the US.

Do you think that we could save oil shale?

It could be done via government subsidies so there is 2 choice - more debt, deficit or less debt deficit. If government decide to subsidize the oil shale, such as add $50 per barrel on top of $27 per barrel to make $77 per barrel so for less to no deficit/debt, it means US customers have to pay high gas price to cover the subsidies, such as add $2 on top of $1.50 gas price to make $3.50. For more deficit/debt, government give a lot of money to subsidize and we don't pay at all.

I know many people don't want to pay more for gas price, but we can't let OPEC to defeat us, so I want US to dominate the oil market, that will be good for our country.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/14/investing/oil-bailout-us-washington/

I don't support incentives that lead to high gas price, but I'm just curious and learn about how oil works.

Please discuss about related to oil shale, not otherwise and no political bashing allowed. :ty:
 
Foxrac said:
Hi all,

1) There is fact about oil shale require high oil price to survive, possibly over $70 per barrel and oil companies depend on high oil price to make more investment.

2) You know that OPEC want to shut oil shale down in the US by oversupply of oil.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...pec-warns-US-cannot-withstand-price-rout.html
http://www.theguardian.com/business...n-kill-us-shale-oil-price-down-seven-year-low

3) Many of us are excited about cheap gas price, but they do have consequence.

4) Many people don't want oil shale due to water issue, earthquake and lack of transparency, even there are some people celebrated that OPEC killed oil shale in the US.

Do you think that we could save oil shale?

It could be done via government subsidies so there is 2 choice - more debt, deficit or less debt deficit. If government decide to subsidize the oil shale, such as add $50 per barrel on top of $27 per barrel to make $77 per barrel so for less to no deficit/debt, it means US customers have to pay high gas price to cover the subsidies, such as add $2 on top of $1.50 gas price to make $3.50. For more deficit/debt, government give a lot of money to subsidize and we don't pay at all.

I know many people don't want to pay more for gas price, but we can't let OPEC to defeat us, so I want US to dominate the oil market, that will be good for our country.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/14/investing/oil-bailout-us-washington/

I don't support incentives that lead to high gas price, but I'm just curious and learn about how oil works.

Please discuss about related to oil shale, not otherwise and no political bashing allowed. :ty:
Click to expand...
I don't want USA to dominate the oil market. they should be spearheading the next generation. that's where our gold pot is. our cars in America should be at least 50mpg by now.

Yes I'm aware that there are cars that already have high mpg but majority of cars on the road are not including mine. Perhaps in 5-10 years.... more than 50% of cars in America will be over 50mpg.
 
Jiro said:
I don't want USA to dominate the oil market. they should be spearheading the next generation. that's where our gold pot is. our cars in America should be at least 50mpg by now.

Yes I'm aware that there are cars that already have high mpg but majority of cars on the road are not including mine. Perhaps in 5-10 years.... more than 50% of cars in America will be over 50mpg.
Click to expand...

Of course, I agree about we have to increase the car mpg.

There is interesting about gas and diesel mpg gap will be narrower in next decade or couple.
mpg_overtime_large.png


http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...gas-which-is-the-better-fuel-and-vehicle.aspx
 
I dont see how we can hit 50mpg, theres limitation on efficiency

Give you an idea what I mean, you see, we will never hit 100% efficiency. Its just simply not possible. Many homes with modern furnace that gets like 93% efficient. How do they reach that number? Simple put, its the amount of available energy fuel is what we would get. Like the btu/hour from natural gas in furnaxe would be 100k, 93k will be used inside the house while the rest 7k goes out in chimney which we called waste.

Same concept with cars we can not get more energy out of gasoline more than they have. I believe todays cars are around 95% efficient and I dont see how they can hit 50mpg.

The idea of having 50mpg, 100mpg cars dated back in 70's and they never materialized.

I know one thing for sure, it is impossible to dominate against OPEC, they got too much power with vast amount of oil they are sitting on. Anytime when anyone trying to make mainstream vehicles more efficient with alternative fuel, OPEC will do anything to derail them, this isn't new and have been like that since days of JFK.

I am against government subsiding shale oil industry, doing so everybody loses period, how? we are going to pay more taxes, so its not going to happen. Thank God Keystone XL is dead.
 
diehardbiker said:
I dont see how we can hit 50mpg, theres limitation on efficiency

Give you an idea what I mean, you see, we will never hit 100% efficiency. Its just simply not possible. Many homes with modern furnace that gets like 93% efficient. How do they reach that number? Simple put, its the amount of available energy fuel is what we would get. Like the btu/hour from natural gas in furnaxe would be 100k, 93k will be used inside the house while the rest 7k goes out in chimney which we called waste.

Same concept with cars we can not get more energy out of gasoline more than they have. I believe todays cars are around 95% efficient and I dont see how they can hit 50mpg.

The idea of having 50mpg, 100mpg cars dated back in 70's and they never materialized.

I know one thing for sure, it is impossible to dominate against OPEC, they got too much power with vast amount of oil they are sitting on. Anytime when anyone trying to make mainstream vehicles more efficient with alternative fuel, OPEC will do anything to derail them, this isn't new and have been like that since days of JFK.

I am against government subsiding shale oil industry, doing so everybody loses period, how? we are going to pay more taxes, so its not going to happen. Thank God Keystone XL is dead.
Click to expand...

100% efficiency rate? no it's never ever gonna be ever possible - EVER. it's scientifically not possible.

a house with modern furnace... 93%?
modern car... 95%?

oh dear oh dear.... that's actually AMAZING if we do have 90%+ for a furnace and car... really amazing. that's like a car with 500mpg and a furnace enough to warm a house on one wood for a month.

I have absolutely NO idea where the heck did you get those figures. by engineering standard regarding maximum thermal efficiency for gas combustive engine... it's usually around 30%. can't really go over that. maybe 35%?

nuclear power plant efficiency rate is around up to 40%. can't go over that much. the only thing that can get close to 100% is..... hydro electric dam.... for now.
 
One gallon of gasoline isnt much, stretching gaoline into thin line over 50 miles, pushing say 3,000 lbs over 50 miles requires plenty of energy, and pushed by just a gallon of gas. Im speaking of relatively and concept of limitations.

Jiro, you may not realized we used to have cars running 5 to 8 mpg back then, thats probably 40% efficiency, we have improved considerable in the last 40 years increasing to 30mpg, thats huge improvement, but future improvement using gasoline isnt much left.
 
Sure nuclear gets 40% efficient because of multiple energy transfers. Nuclear energy transfer into heat, which transfer into steam energy, thus transfer once again into mechanical energy to run electric generator thus transfer once again into electrical energy. Too may transfers means too many losses on energy. Now, how do you cut that down to make it more efficient? Regardless, whenever there is energy being transfer there will always be loss of energy.

When it comes to gasoline powered vehicle, only one type of energy transfer so its only one step waste, the rest is due to weight, power consumption which is another energy transfer from gasoline and the waste isn't much.

I do not believe claim of 15% efficiency on vehicles.

The truth is everyone dream of more energy coming out of oil with no limit in sky.
 
diehardbiker said:
One gallon of gasoline isnt much, stretching gaoline into thin line over 50 miles, pushing say 3,000 lbs over 50 miles requires plenty of energy, and pushed by just a gallon of gas. Im speaking of relatively and concept of limitations.

Jiro, you may not realized we used to have cars running 5 to 8 mpg back then, thats probably 40% efficiency, we have improved considerable in the last 40 years increasing to 30mpg, thats huge improvement, but future improvement using gasoline isnt much left.
Click to expand...

diehardbiker said:
Sure nuclear gets 40% efficient because of multiple energy transfers. Nuclear energy transfer into heat, which transfer into steam energy, thus transfer once again into mechanical energy to run electric generator thus transfer once again into electrical energy. Too may transfers means too many losses on energy. Now, how do you cut that down to make it more efficient? Regardless, whenever there is energy being transfer there will always be loss of energy.

When it comes to gasoline powered vehicle, only one type of energy transfer so its only one step waste, the rest is due to weight, power consumption which is another energy transfer from gasoline and the waste isn't much.

I do not believe claim of 15% efficiency on vehicles.
Click to expand...
you may not realize that you're entirely wrong.... A link in Nihilist's post is basically saying you're talking out of your ass.....

you do not believe 15% efficiency rate on vehicles.... and yet all scientific datas have proved you wrong... and you still believe it's 95%? oh dear oh dear..... that's like believing earth is still not round

diehardbiker said:
The truth is everyone dream of more energy coming out of oil with no limit in sky.
Click to expand...
incorrect. everyone's dream is a flying vehicle.... or a teleporter.... none of those needs oil and the only purpose for oil would be lubricant.
 
I see $3.75 here in California for a week now, greedy Californian gas owners or government or BOTH :lol: . No gas stations are lowering prices in my area yet........
 
authentic said:
I see $3.75 here in California for a week now, greedy Californian gas owners or government or BOTH :lol: . No gas stations are lowering prices in my area yet........
Click to expand...

In here, the gas price cost $1.50 per gal.

California needs a lot of new oil refineries - they only pumping at 50% capacity.
 
I got gas last night, the price was $2.59 at Shell at my location.

authentic said:
I see $3.75 here in California for a week now, greedy Californian gas owners or government or BOTH :lol: . No gas stations are lowering prices in my area yet........
Click to expand...
 
My son getting electric car for his town runabout maybe more countries look that way.you so right about opec though.
North Sea oil was to be uk saviour but rigs are closing down even though plenty oil gas still there.You right the thinking side of the world should be looking towards spearheading Thinking side not totally American
 
authentic said:
No Fracking in CA please!
Click to expand...

Oil refineries and fracking aren't same.

Oil refineries
IOC_Paradip_Polypropylene.jpg


Fracking
Gas%20drilling%20and%20coal,%20southwest,%20Pa.,%20Nov.%202010%20084.jpg


It isn't hazardous to build new oil refineries to lower the gas price for west coast.
 
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