Could budget cuts in the mainstream lead to increased enrollement at deaf schools?

GrendelQ said:
Wow, its really discouraging to see an educator react in such a gleefully sneering way to the attempts by parents to get the best possible accommodations for their deaf children into the schools.

There are differences in how you accommodate a child with access to sound via a ci and a child using an ha or without aids, but i'm trying to figure out where you are finding the increased costs that children with cis incur for schools. Do the fm systems in use by CI students cost more than those in use by HA students? If bilingual, do ASL interpreters cost more if you have a CI than if you have an HA or no aid? Do CI students require more expensive carpeting than those with HAs?

I think budget cuts at schools would hurt placement at deaf schools: we rely on our local school to pay for my daughter's placement. They would save a great deal by mainstreaming her, and still comply with her iep, and yet we and they know she's getting a better education where she is. We have an advisor who told us to never let the discussion touch on money: the costs of placement in a deaf school far outpace even the most amazing accommodations we could get into a mainstreamed environment, including interpreters, ASL-fluent paras, slps, fm systems, etc. It's always got to be about providing the right educational environment for a child, regardless of cost and resources.
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It was a joke..lighten up. Sometimes it is good to laugh at ourselves. I costed the school a lot of money with my FM system.
 
Just had to say, with my daughter having a CI, she gets more "special" treatment with the lighting w/in hers classrooms due to migraines that she does for her CI. We've never requested special systems or classrooms - she receives Speech2x a week for only 30 minutes per session. If there is any cost that comes from my daughter it would the hour drive to school in her cab more so that her CI could ever be! :)
 
AlleyCat said:
Then why so much opposition towards us for advocating for a full toolbox? "For everything they could to make it possible to learn with ease" ? I'm actually not singling YOU out because I know you have Li-Li learning ASL, English, and everything, but we get so much flak on this board for trying to ensure parents give their children EVERYTHING to make learning easier.
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That's a question I have in my head as well.
 
GrendelQ said:
Hey, I think my child is doing AWESOME, too. That doesn't mean I don't want every possible means of making learning more accessible to her. Does using cprint or cart or an interpreter or an fm system mean you aren't doing great, whether you have a CI, an HA or not? Wouldn't you want your parents to fight for everything they could to make it possible for you to learn with ease? Doing so doesn't mean you aren't already doing awesome.
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Of course. But the mom being referrred to was a hard core oralist who insisted that her children had never been in anything but an oral environment, functioned completely as hearing students, and did so because they were completely oral. She refused to recognize the fact that because accommodations were necessary, her children were far from functioning as hearing children.
 
deafdyke said:
Really? Such as? I do have a feeling that a lot of the kids whose parents managed to get REALLY good mainstream accomondations, are going to be facing cuts. The stereotype of a CI kid is a minimal accomondations superstar, but most require a lot more extensive special ed interventions.
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Let's look at CART for instance. And many also require terps. Not to mention special ed teachers that are running the resource programs, the use of SLP's that are paid by the school district, etc.
 
ASLMommax2 said:
Just had to say, with my daughter having a CI, she gets more "special" treatment with the lighting w/in hers classrooms due to migraines that she does for her CI. We've never requested special systems or classrooms - she receives Speech2x a week for only 30 minutes per session. If there is any cost that comes from my daughter it would the hour drive to school in her cab more so that her CI could ever be! :)
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I assume your daughter is still very young. I just want you to keep in mind that the need for accommodation increases as the student gets older.
 
Jillio, my daughter is an 8th grader - 14 years old. Has had her CI for 10 years - accomodations aren't neccassary, she is to bring the CI to what ever degree she may want - the ball belongs to her! :)
 
ASLMommax2 said:
Jillio, my daughter is an 8th grader - 14 years old. Has had her CI for 10 years - accomodations aren't neccassary, she is to bring the CI to what ever degree she may want - the ball belongs to her! :)
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I see. Thanks for the information. I somehow got the impression that she was much younger.

It is great that she does not require accommodations, and it is also great that you have empowered her to have the call on this.
 
jillo, the reason she doesn't require accomondations is b/c she attends a Deaf School!
:D The "accomondations" are already built into the system in Deaf Ed!
But the mom being referrred to was a hard core oralist who insisted that her children had never been in anything but an oral environment, functioned completely as hearing students, and did so because they were completely oral. She refused to recognize the fact that because accommodations were necessary, her children were far from functioning as hearing children.
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And in addition, her kids were doing AWESOME under minimal accomondations......but b/c they weren't getting straight A's, she was whining that she wanted "cutting edge" accomondations for them. Almost like those parents who dx shop for some flimsy dx (ie difficulty with Gestault thinking) so their kid can get untimed tests and other accomondations?!?!
 
Let's look at CART for instance. And many also require terps. Not to mention special ed teachers that are running the resource programs, the use of SLP's that are paid by the school district, etc.
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So if a kid has an implant they use a continuum of accomondations? Meaning the AG Bell kids who take a full course load of AP classes with minimal accomondations, are basicly the minority? They're equalivant to the kids who parents from the 1960's,70's,80's and 90's read about in Volta Voices, the ones who were mainstream high acheivers?
I mean I know you can't generalize about CI kids, just as you can't generalize about how well HA kids do in the mainstream.
But I do remember in the 90's when people thought that CIs meant the END of Deaf culture.
All it has meant is that most implanted kids are now on the hoh spectrum. (and that ranges from only being able to hear some speech to being almost hearing and every and anything in between.....every kid responds differently to being implanted, just as they did to hearing aids) heck there are still a lot of CI kids at Deaf Schools!!!!
 
And yes I know that residental enrollment at Clarke has really gotten smaller. It's now 15 (as opposed to 27 ten years ago) And the actual SCHOOL part of it has really shrunk. Even when Bballboy (who is prolly our youngest member) was in elementary, Clarke's Upper and Lower School enrollment was booming. It's now the only oral residental school. Which is kinda strange. I mean CID and St. Joseph closed their dorms....and there were still kids who needed a dorm school. One would think that the CID and St. Joe's kids who still needed a dorm, would have transferred to Clarke. Like what happened when Nebraska closed their deaf school......their res students went to Iowa. But maybe it's due to the fact that intense oral private schools are overall not as needed. Like most kids can be served in public oral programs. They may need private intense preschool....but with budget cuts and stuff, public schools aren't as interested in providing Preschool to grade 8 residental oral education. Also, the big four schools (Clarke, CID, MOOG (which used to be the only private oral day school) and St. Joseph's seem to have gotten a lot better at telling parents " Your kid needs ASL" early on, like in preschool.
 
It should be noted that many deaf schools are state schools, and certain states (like WI, OH, etc) have budget cuts coming with their ridiculous bills-- and state employees WILL be affected by that, and state institutions, which include residential schools that the state funds... Also, the school district that the child lives in, as someone pointed out earlier, pays the money to allow said child to go to the deaf school. I think most school districts aren't even going to touch that funding... that being said, it might increase the enrollment in deaf schools, but I have no idea-- a lot of parents don't even realize the option is there, etc... it's a weird touchy subject.
 
a lot of parents don't even realize the option is there, etc... it's a weird touchy subject.
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Oh yeah... I mean Deaf School placement hasn't been the norm since 1974!! I really do think many parents would be amazed at the resources and how good a deaf school/formal program (as oppossed to solotaire mainstreaming) is. We do have a couple of parents who solotaired their kids, and then either res schooled (a teenager) or formal sizable programmed their kid.....all of them can't believe how awesome the programming is compared to solotaire mainstreaming.
 
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shel90 said:
AlleyCat said:
Then why so much opposition towards us for advocating for a full toolbox? "For everything they could to make it possible to learn with ease" ? I'm actually not singling YOU out because I know you have Li-Li learning ASL, English, and everything, but we get so much flak on this board for trying to ensure parents give their children EVERYTHING to make learning easier.
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That's a question I have in my head as well.
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the only people who believe there is only one way to raise a deaf child are fools.

i don't know a single parent who wants to deny families choices. There are parents here who use ASL, some with CIs, and others who use SEE. We each are giving our children tools to communicate, and each child is different.
 
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deafdyke said:
jillo, the reason she doesn't require accomondations is b/c she attends a Deaf School!
:D The "accomondations" are already built into the system in Deaf Ed!
But the mom being referrred to was a hard core oralist who insisted that her children had never been in anything but an oral environment, functioned completely as hearing students, and did so because they were completely oral. She refused to recognize the fact that because accommodations were necessary, her children were far from functioning as hearing children.
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And in addition, her kids were doing AWESOME under minimal accomondations......but b/c they weren't getting straight A's, she was whining that she wanted "cutting edge" accomondations for them. Almost like those parents who dx shop for some flimsy dx (ie difficulty with Gestault thinking) so their kid can get untimed tests and other accomondations?!?!
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so A students aren't entitled to full access to the curriculum? When is a student? When they get C's? Do we wait until they start to fail?
 
so A students aren't entitled to full access to the curriculum? When is a student? When they get C's? Do we wait until they start to fail?
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No, but if a kid is getting As, with minimal accomondations, they are demonstrating that they have mastered and have full access to the curriculm ALREADY!!!! Doing something like that is akin to going to a psychologist for a designer "learning disabilty" just so a kid can get untimed tests and stuff!
he only people who believe there is only one way to raise a deaf child are fools.

i don't know a single parent who wants to deny families choices. There are parents here who use ASL, some with CIs, and others who use SEE. We each are giving our children tools to communicate, and each child is different.
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You're missing that we believe that dhh kids have the right to a FULL TOOLBOX. We do not believe that they need to be limited to ONE methodology. Why is that so hard to understand? We support good quality speech therapy.............and guess what? There are PLENTY of Deaf Schools that offer that?!?! A full toolbox. It's exactly like if this was a blind ed messageboard, we would be urging parents to pursue Braille along with a books on tape and large print methodology. How and why is that so hard to understand?!?! I know of NOBODY who wasn't glad that they got exposure to both speech and sign while growing up. Bear in mind, that even the best HA/CI cannot and does not come CLOSE to "hearing person" hearing. We can hear and talk yes.........but virtually all the time, that's in best aided listening conditions!
 
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deafdyke said:
so A students aren't entitled to full access to the curriculum? When is a student? When they get C's? Do we wait until they start to fail?
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No, but if a kid is getting As, with minimal accomondations, they are demonstrating that they have mastered and have full access to the curriculm ALREADY!!!! Doing something like that is akin to going to a psychologist for a designer "learning disabilty" just so a kid can get untimed tests and stuff!
he only people who believe there is only one way to raise a deaf child are fools.

i don't know a single parent who wants to deny families choices. There are parents here who use ASL, some with CIs, and others who use SEE. We each are giving our children tools to communicate, and each child is different.
Click to expand...
You're missing that we believe that dhh kids have the right to a FULL TOOLBOX. We do not believe that they need to be limited to ONE methodology. Why is that so hard to understand? We support good quality speech therapy.............and guess what? There are PLENTY of Deaf Schools that offer that?!?! A full toolbox. It's exactly like if this was a blind ed messageboard, we would be urging parents to pursue Braille along with a books on tape and large print methodology. How and why is that so hard to understand?!?! I know of NOBODY who wasn't glad that they got exposure to both speech and sign while growing up. Bear in mind, that even the best HA/CI cannot and does not come CLOSE to "hearing person" hearing. We can hear and talk yes.........but virtually all the time, that's in best aided listening conditions!
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i don't think that anyone in the blind community insists that all people with less than normal vision MUST be given braille as their primary way to learn to read...which would be the equivilent.

people here say that you must use ASL as your child's primary language, provide ASL as the language of instruction in school and as the mode of communication at home. Anything less or different CAUSES cognitive and emotional issues.
 
don't think that anyone in the blind community insists that all people with less than normal vision MUST be given braille as their primary way to learn to read...which would be the equivilent.

people here say that you must use ASL as your child's primary language, provide ASL as the language of instruction in school and as the mode of communication at home. Anything less or different CAUSES cognitive and emotional issues.
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No. We are NOT pushing voice off. Yes, that's how Utah Schools for the Deaf and Blind interpreted bi bi..........we are pushing ASL, spoken and written English,....basicly a full toolbox!!!!
NOBODY here is saying that dhh kids should be ASL'd all the time. We believe that bi bi can be Hoh friendly.
And yes, there are people in the blind community who think that most low vision/blind kids should have braille instruction along with everything else!
 
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deafdyke said:
don't think that anyone in the blind community insists that all people with less than normal vision MUST be given braille as their primary way to learn to read...which would be the equivilent.

people here say that you must use ASL as your child's primary language, provide ASL as the language of instruction in school and as the mode of communication at home. Anything less or different CAUSES cognitive and emotional issues.
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No. We are NOT pushing voice off. Yes, that's how Utah Schools for the Deaf and Blind interpreted bi bi..........we are pushing ASL, spoken and written English,....basicly a full toolbox!!!!
NOBODY here is saying that dhh kids should be ASL'd all the time. We believe that bi bi can be Hoh friendly.
And yes, there are people in the blind community who think that most low vision/blind kids should have braille instruction along with everything else!
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nope, that is not what is being said. It has been flatly stated that auditory therapy is cruel and should not be allowed in a bi-bi school.

ASL MUST be voice off to be ASL, therefore, yes, you are demanding voice off.

it has also been stated that a child should have access to ASL at all times at home and school, so where does that leave spoken english?
 
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