Confederate Flag

[Foxrac]

You better read up on your history. Black soldiers were not allowed to fight for the South until March 13, 1865, which was less than one month before the end of the Civil War. Prior to that the Southerners were afraid to give black slave weapons out of fear that they would turn against their owners. There were only a couple thousand blacks who joined and they paled in comparison to the more than 200,000 that served the North. Also there is no record of Black soldiers actually fighting for the South in combat situations, the served primarily as unofficial non combat soldiers as servants, cooks and laborers.

There is conflict report - they said beginning of war.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2015/01/black_confederates_not_a_myth_here_s_why.3.html

This story said black confederates fought combatively against the North.

 

[Foxrac]

80%? Where are you getting the numbers? Nationwide? Just in one state? How big is the polled group?

Seems rather high to me- I could see 55%-60% maybe but 80?

Or is that "CrazyPaul Poll"?

Yes, it is CrazyPaul Poll that polled black people in California.

 

[seb]

There is conflict report - they said beginning of war.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2015/01/black_confederates_not_a_myth_here_s_why.3.html

This story said black confederates fought combatively against the North.

Your article stated that most deserted to the North which would explain the 200,000 Black North soldier totals and by 1863, there were no Blacks fighting for the South.
https://civilwargazette.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/did-blacks-fight-in-combat-for-the-confederacy/

 

[Foxrac]

Your article stated that most deserted to the North which would explain the 200,000 Black North soldier totals and by 1863, there were no Blacks fighting for the South.
https://civilwargazette.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/did-blacks-fight-in-combat-for-the-confederacy/

Those are conflict report.

I do believe with historians about blacks served in confederate army like Calvin stated above.

 

[Calvin]

I'm certain that many of the Civil War veterans is rolling over their graves right now with all the mess the PC caused.

After the Civil War, the Yankee and US Government has power to write history and biased about Confederacy history. Pretty sure Yankee (Union side) historian would disagree with Confederate historian due to biased. No one wants Civil War to happen because that's when families/friends fight against each other. History changed from generations to generations and the facts about Confederacy become obsolete to this day.

I would not be surprised more history going to disappear in the next generations to come.

 

[Foxrac]

I'm certain that many of the Civil War veterans is rolling over their graves right now with all the mess the PC caused.

After the Civil War, the Yankee and US Government has power to write history and biased about Confederacy history. Pretty sure Yankee (Union side) historian would disagree with Confederate historian due to biased. No one wants Civil War to happen because that's when families/friends fight against each other. History changed from generations to generations and the facts about Confederacy become obsolete to this day.

I would not be surprised more history going to disappear in the next generations to come.

Yes, that why I lost in interest to discuss with seb.

 

[seb]

You can believe whatever you chose to believe, but history says otherwise. Numerous sources put the number of Blacks fighting for the South in very low numbers and basically none of them were in a combat roles with most if not all in support roles. After the war the North did it's best to retrieve it's dead after the war and take accountings of the dead on both sides and give them proper burials. However, the South was pretty much wiped out after the war and didn't have the man power or will to even bury it's dead and left them in the fields where they died to basically rot, so I would not put too much stock in the history of the war as presented by the South. Sorry.

 

[hoichi]

You can believe whatever you chose to believe, but history says otherwise. Numerous sources put the number of Blacks fighting for the South in very low numbers and basically none of them were in a combat roles with most if not all in support roles. After the war the North did it's best to retrieve it's dead after the war and take accountings of the dead on both sides and give them proper burials. However, the South was pretty much wiped out after the war and didn't have the man power or will to even bury it's dead and left them in the fields where they died to basically rot, so I would not put too much stock in the history of the war as presented by the South. Sorry.

Right...the south was preety well wiped out...they lost.so woe to the vanquished!! Theyre heads under northern boots....yankee doodle dandy!!
That works sure. It certainly worked with natives..but it wasnt the sole doctrine used in the south was it. The southern whites wherent genocided. Where they? They werent vanquished..where they?


But thats not the entire story is it?

The south was re integrated by force of arms back into the union. Though one must ask what kinda "union" such a thing really was. If union is a word to describe "if you choose to leave we will conquer you", i wonder if any marriege could truly work like that. Some food for thought. After all northern yank armies invaded my country three times...but we kicked your asses...the south wasnt as lucky but i understand the settement of not accepting cultural submission to yankee imperalism..most the world shares that sentement these days..
Now 150 years later, one must ask what really is this all about.the authoritarian push to erase history, why now?
That is the question that needs to be awnswered...
Not how many blacks fought for who?

 

[Jezie]

Now 150 years later, one must ask what really is this all about.the authoritarian push to erase history, why now?
That is the question that needs to be awnswered...
Not how many blacks fought for who?

Cannot agree more here... but sadly not many will consider this question fully....

 

[seb]

Right...
Now 150 years later, one must ask what really is this all about.the authoritarian push to erase history, why now?
That is the question that needs to be awnswered...
Not how many blacks fought for who?

Erase what history? If your talking about the flag, it should of been relegated to history 150 years ago.

 

[authentic]

A guy who is African American support Confederate Flag got killed by black mobs yesterday. Sad.

 

[Jezie]

If you mean Anthony Hervey.... he was killed being forced off th road...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ppi-flag-supporter-dies-traffic-accident.html

A black Mississippi man who often dressed in Confederate regalia to support the state flag has died in a one-car accident.

The Highway Patrol says 49-year-old Anthony Hervey was killed Sunday when the 2005 Ford Explorer he was driving left the roadway and overturned on Mississippi Highway 6 in Lafayette County.

A passenger in Harvey's car, Arlene Barnum, tells The Associated Press that Hervey swerved and crashed after another vehicle carrying four or five young black men pulled up alongside them, yelling and looking angry.*

Barnum said Hervey yelled something back at the other vehicle before losing control and crashing.

'It spun like crazy and we flipped, flipped, flipped. It was awful,' she said.

She said she gave that account to a Mississippi state trooper when she was taken to a hospital after the accident.

In the moments following the crash, Barnum was apparently able to post toFacebook, where she wrote:

'HELP.. They after us. My vehicle inside down.'

Shortly after, Barnum posted again:

'Anthony Hervy pinned in ., gas leaking.'

Barnum told the*McAlester News-Capitalthat she wasn't particularly well acquainted with her fellow black Confederate flag supporter, but that she'd let him drive her truck.

'I didn't know him, really,' Barham said of Hervey. 'I gave him a ride to the rally.'

The Mississippi Highway Patrol did not immediately respond to an Associated Press query asking if officials are investigating Barnum's account.

Mississippi Highway Patrol spokesman Johnny Poulos said Monday in a written statement that no other details of the accident will be available until accident reconstruction experts have had a chance to take a look at the evidence.

Barnum said she and Hervey had been returning home Sunday from Birmingham, Alabama, where they attended a Saturday rally to save the Linn Park Confederate Monument. City leaders there recently voted to remove the memorial from the park.

Barnum said they were in her SUV, which was not displaying any Confederate flags or stickers.

She said she had no idea whether they had been followed from Birmingham.

Hervey, of Oxford, has drawn attention over the years for opposing efforts to change the flag. He said he dressed in Rebel soldier garb to honor blacks who served with the Confederacy during the Civil War. He was often seen often wearing the Confederate uniform and waving a Rebel flag on the Oxford square.

In an interview with the Associated Press in 2001 after a new state flag design was defeated, Hervey said Mississippians' support of the flag with a Confederate battle emblem in the corner is akin to 'standing up for home.'

 

[CrazyPaul]

You better read up on your history. Black soldiers were not allowed to fight for the South until March 13, 1865, which was less than one month before the end of the Civil War. Prior to that the Southerners were afraid to give black slave weapons out of fear that they would turn against their owners. There were only a couple thousand blacks who joined and they paled in comparison to the more than 200,000 that served the North. Also there is no record of Black soldiers actually fighting for the South in combat situations, the served primarily as unofficial non combat soldiers as servants, cooks and laborers.

That makes A LOT OF SENSE. Who would be glad to give guns to their slaves in the South? SMH That's why I believe that they were forced to join, so that way those blacks slaves who were forced to fight for the South would die for them while the South soldiers made sure that their weapons were pointed at the Northern soldiers. I don't see where the South honored them for fighting and dying for them. Did it?

 

[CrazyPaul]

80%? Where are you getting the numbers? Nationwide? Just in one state? How big is the polled group?

Seems rather high to me- I could see 55%-60% maybe but 80?

Or is that "CrazyPaul Poll"?

Are you aware that there are at least two threads about the flag? So don't ask me to do your homework. There is a search engine. There was a link by someone to the poll and I read it. You missed it? Well, that's not my problem.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

http://www.southernheritage411.com/bc.php?nw=030


This is an interesting link about slaves fighting for the South , it point out that Whites were forced to fight to .

 

[hoichi]

Erase what history? If your talking about the flag, it should of been relegated to history 150 years ago.

But it wasnt, was it?
It was kept alive as a cultural symbol for those of the south, its their flag, its part of their culture and history as well as still a living symbol for many.
I get what your saying. I generally state the same thing to monsrchist weirdos up here that salivate at the mouth for all things queen. We have the bitch everywhere, in schools, on our loot, in court, even in crack houses..whore houses, race tracks, its rather annoying really....ah well
And ive often stated the relegate to history line of yours...and who knows maybe one day she will go into the dust bin of history....but it wont be forced, nor can it.
Same goes with the southern flag
That choice will.be up to them,not yankee dictates..
But the above still doesnt awnser the question
Why the push to.erase history now?
The call to demolish monuments? The call to dig up long dead confederate generals, the washing of the flags image from tv. Amazon wont sell it online,but will the isis flag, and communist flags by the dozens, nascar.bans its showing from races...
So on so forth,
Have you given any thought to what its all about besides
"It should of been relegated to history 150 years ago"

 

[hoichi]

http://www.southernheritage411.com/bc.php?nw=030


This is an interesting link about slaves fighting for the South , it point out that Whites were forced to fight to .

The union.also had a draft, if we want to be honest there is NO shortage of union atrocities on the war path during the civil war.
But
Lets not let history get in the way of a disgussion...

 

[seb]

But it wasnt, was it?
It was kept alive as a cultural symbol for those of the south, its their flag, its part of their culture and history as well as still a living symbol for many.
I get what your saying. I generally state the same thing to monsrchist weirdos up here that salivate at the mouth for all things queen. We have the bitch everywhere, in schools, on our loot, in court, even in crack houses..whore houses, race tracks, its rather annoying really....ah well
And ive often stated the relegate to history line of yours...and who knows maybe one day she will go into the dust bin of history....but it wont be forced, nor can it.
Same goes with the southern flag
That choice will.be up to them,not yankee dictates..
But the above still doesnt awnser the question
Why the push to.erase history now?
The call to demolish monuments? The call to dig up long dead confederate generals, the washing of the flags image from tv. Amazon wont sell it online,but will the isis flag, and communist flags by the dozens, nascar.bans its showing from races...
So on so forth,
Have you given any thought to what its all about besides
"It should of been relegated to history 150 years ago"

First of all, what history are they trying to erase? Second, it's not what it stood for but what it stands for today. Two entirely different things.

 

[seb]

That makes A LOT OF SENSE. Who would be glad to give guns to their slaves in the South? SMH That's why I believe that they were forced to join, so that way those blacks slaves who were forced to fight for the South would die for them while the South soldiers made sure that their weapons were pointed at the Northern soldiers. I don't see where the South honored them for fighting and dying for them. Did it?

Of what I've read on the South in the Civil War, the Blacks had basically non combat roles and where used in support roles such as cooks, servants, laborers, etc.

 

[hoichi]

First of all, what history are they trying to erase? Second, it's not what it stood for but what it stands for today. Two entirely different things.

Indeed what are they trying to erase? Is erasing a certain part of one historical narrative even positive?
Every authorirarian movement regardless of the flavour has always sought to erase and re write history..so your question is a valid one.
What history do the seek to erase,and ill add two others, and for whom do they seek to do erase it for? And what do they seek to replace it with?
As for what it stands for today. Like any symbol it stands for various things to various people. For most soithern whites it means something different then to most yankee whites, and same goes to blacks both southern and northern.
But there is a heavy facade here isnt there?
Slavery existed far longer under the stars and stripes
Slave shilps sailed under the star and stripes not the confederste battle flag,
And i get intelectual honesty is hard for those with an.axe to grind..
And native american genocide and conquest occured under the stars and stripes..
Yet old glory is rather the tefflon don in this isnt she? Old glory is another hillliry clinton no matter what she does or has done nothing sticks....
So..
Why erase history now?
When a mayor calls to dig up long dead confederate generals, it smacks of what?
When historical monuments are in the site of those who wish to sandblast what does it smack of?
All for what?
It certainly has nothing to do with 9 innocent people blown away, thats just a handy pretext for cheap political capital..
Isnt it?