cochlear implants

Really...eh? The field is never, never a level playing field between one with only four senses compared to one with five senses. All of life's possibilities?!? I don't think so and I know for a fact it is not so. Been there and done that. With my CI, my world has opened up in ways that is unbelievable but for all that...I know my limitations and I'm comfortable with what and who I am. I will not claim that the playing field is level and that I can experience "all of life's possibilities". Believe me, I push the envelop pretty far...

It is one thing to accept one's lot in life and be content. If one does that, it is a fine thing indeed. But that doesn't imply a level playing field simply based on such thinking. One who thinks that is deluding one's self big time.

It is much better to realize one's limitations and go from that point. It is amazing what one can accomplish that way. It is one thing to state that hearing "per se" isn't necessary but another to claim that the playing field is level while lacking some or all hearing.

I certainly don't disagree with what you have had to say. I never implied a level playing field, just that one whohas capitalized on all possibilities available has certainly led a fulfilling life.

Perhaps, as a deaf indiviudal, you would not be able to gain employment as a fire fighter. But then I, as a 5' tall, 93 lb woman, cannot either. But then again, I am not interested in such a career, and can adjust my goals to coincide with that. I cannot do everything that every other hearing person on this earth can do. We all have our limitations. The ppoint is whether we allow those limitations to dictate the quality of our lives, or whether we live full and satisfying lives in spite of our limitations.
 
I certainly don't disagree with what you have had to say. I never implied a level playing field, just that one whohas capitalized on all possibilities available has certainly led a fulfilling life.

Perhaps, as a deaf indiviudal, you would not be able to gain employment as a fire fighter. But then I, as a 5' tall, 93 lb woman, cannot either. But then again, I am not interested in such a career, and can adjust my goals to coincide with that. I cannot do everything that every other hearing person on this earth can do. We all have our limitations. The ppoint is whether we allow those limitations to dictate the quality of our lives, or whether we live full and satisfying lives in spite of our limitations.

Ummm...much better! I can concur with you said this way...now I can put my head back into the sand. :whistle:
 
I agree with you that it does help the child access sound, and for some, it does help them to develop oral skills, both receptive and expressive. However, I still beleive that hearing is not necessary to access all of life's possibilities. And that was really the point of my question.

I agree with you there you do not need the implant to access all of life's possibilities. There is no question at all in my mind. A deaf person who choses the Deaf culture way of life can access all of life's possibilities. The implant has helped my children develop oral language now because of this they can communicate with the mainstream society. I also know that if we would have choosen the signing route, I would have gotten involved just as you have and I would have also make sure they had access to everything just as you have.
Jillo you know I don't think we are all that different, we have just choosen different paths for our children.
 
Is a CI the only way to do that? And if so, from whose perspective?
I didn't say that. Why do you put the word "ONLY" in there..
Is sign the ONLY way to go according to your perspective?

So quit using the extremes as an example. Stop using words like "only", especially when you put it into my mouth.
 
I don't want to get into an argument of semantics here, but I don't see deafness as being "unhealthy". I tend to hold the view of deafness as a cultural and linguistic minority, rather than seeing deafness as pathology.

Then please don't, because this is not about deafness seen as "healthy or unhealthy or pathological or cultural minority", or whatever. I clearly stated in my other post what I meant:
The point is, when all is said and done, the best option in life is to be simply healthy. This means to have all the senses intact as well.

and as you can see I was talking about "best option in life".
best option in life is without hesitation - simply to be able to hear, see, smell, taste and touch.
It's just an objective fact, and it has no bearing on how I view deafness. or anybody for that matter.


Perhaps, as a deaf indiviudal, you would not be able to gain employment as a fire fighter

IMO, this is simply irrelevant, what is relevant is to be able to hear a fire alarm going off.


Thank you, dreama. I agree that it would be a life changing experience, but I simply don't see that it would be a tragedy. But that's just for me.

If you were born hearing impaired- I can believe that.
But being late deafened.. hmm.. no, maybe not outright tragedy but...

how are you going to communicate with your longtime best hearing friends who, you can bet your patootie, won't want to learn ASL just for you?
and how about your work, your courses, your everyday activities like as simple as talking on the phone - how are you going to accomplish all that, for instance?



Fuzzy
 
Then please don't, because this is not about deafness seen as "healthy or unhealthy or pathological or cultural minority", or whatever. I clearly stated in my other post what I meant:


and as you can see I was talking about "best option in life".
best option in life is without hesitation - simply to be able to hear, see, smell, taste and touch.
It's just an objective fact, and it has no bearing on how I view deafness. or anybody for that matter.




IMO, this is simply irrelevant, what is relevant is to be able to hear a fire alarm going off.




If you were born hearing impaired- I can believe that.
But being late deafened.. hmm.. no, maybe not outright tragedy but...

how are you going to communicate with your longtime best hearing friends who, you can bet your patootie, won't want to learn ASL just for you?
and how about your work, your courses, your everyday activities like as simple as talking on the phone - how are you going to accomplish all that, for instance?




Fuzzy

That happened to me so I moved on and made new friends. If the deaf person's hearing friends are true friends they would be willing to meet some of the deaf person's needs if not all. I never expected my hearing friends to meet all my needs but the breaking point was that they wouldnt return my calls or call me because of the relay according to them. As a result, I wasnt invited to some events so I figured it was time to let them go and find new friends. About 10 years later one of them found me and sent me an email. She said that she regretted for what she did. I am not gonna change everything about myself to meet all their needs...there has to be a middle ground. That's my view.

As for work, classes, and whatnot..I accomplished all these without a CI. Many deaf people do fine so what was your point of these questions? To me it seems like u are implying that deaf people need to be able to hear to be able to do all these things u mentioned? Tell me if I am wrong or not.
 
...


If you were born hearing impaired- I can believe that.
But being late deafened.. hmm.. no, maybe not outright tragedy but...

how are you going to communicate with your longtime best hearing friends who, you can bet your patootie, won't want to learn ASL just for you?
and how about your work, your courses, your everyday activities like as simple as talking on the phone - how are you going to accomplish all that, for instance?

Fuzzy

yes,you are right.. As a late deafened, those have been great problems to me and yes, no one wanted to learn sign or writing notes just for me.. Considering ASL to be a 'golden' solution is not right.. ASL is not the only appropriate solution for 'all' deafs.. For some it may be great but for some others it doesn't work out ( me included )
 
That happened to me so I moved on and made new friends. If the deaf person's hearing friends are true friends they would be willing to meet some of the deaf person's needs if not all. I never expected my hearing friends to meet all my needs but the breaking point was that they wouldnt return my calls or call me because of the relay according to them. As a result, I wasnt invited to some events so I figured it was time to let them go and find new friends. About 10 years later one of them found me and sent me an email. She said that she regretted for what she did. I am not gonna change everything about myself to meet all their needs...there has to be a middle ground. That's my view.

As for work, classes, and whatnot..I accomplished all these without a CI. Many deaf people do fine so what was your point of these questions? To me it seems like u are implying that deaf people need to be able to hear to be able to do all these things u mentioned? Tell me if I am wrong or not.

You are wrong for that is neither what Fuzzy said nor implied. No one is saying that deaf people need a ci to lead a successful life, in fact for some deaf people they would not even qualify for a ci. However there is a certain reality to having all five senses intact.

That does not mean that a person who does not is "less" of a person or they "cannot" achieve things or lead "successful" lives as there are many examples of people both on this board and outside of this board who do.

To me, it just comes back to my very simple question: what is wrong about being able to hear? And then my next question: for those who get no benefits from HAs, what better method is there for them to access sounds and to possibily acquire speech then a cochlear implant?

So we can continue ad infinitum in this circular argument or just accept the fact that there are different paths we have either chosen for our children or for ourselves and move on.
Rick
 
You are wrong for that is neither what Fuzzy said nor implied. No one is saying that deaf people need a ci to lead a successful life, in fact for some deaf people they would not even qualify for a ci. However there is a certain reality to having all five senses intact.

That does not mean that a person who does not is "less" of a person or they "cannot" achieve things or lead "successful" lives as there are many examples of people both on this board and outside of this board who do.

To me, it just comes back to my very simple question: what is wrong about being able to hear? And then my next question: for those who get no benefits from HAs, what better method is there for them to access sounds and to possibily acquire speech then a cochlear implant?

So we can continue ad infinitum in this circular argument or just accept the fact that there are different paths we have either chosen for our children or for ourselves and move on.
Rick


I already know that. That's why I asked Fuzzy and that's why I told him he can tell me if I am wrong or not. I just want to understand why he made those comments.

Dont feel like arguing either.

Nothing wrong with wanting to hear. I like to hear with my HAs. Only thing I have a problem is when people forbid signing to small children to test if they are able to pick up spoken language or not but that is a whole another topic itself.
 
I agree with you there you do not need the implant to access all of life's possibilities. There is no question at all in my mind. A deaf person who choses the Deaf culture way of life can access all of life's possibilities. The implant has helped my children develop oral language now because of this they can communicate with the mainstream society. I also know that if we would have choosen the signing route, I would have gotten involved just as you have and I would have also make sure they had access to everything just as you have.
Jillo you know I don't think we are all that different, we have just choosen different paths for our children.

I think that was evident all along, until others found the need to point out the differences in philosophy and use it as a way to make perosnal judgement.
I'm glad we can now engage in a productive disucssion of the issues.
 
I didn't say that. Why do you put the word "ONLY" in there..
Is sign the ONLY way to go according to your perspective?

So quit using the extremes as an example. Stop using words like "only", especially when you put it into my mouth.

I didn't put words into your mouth, cloggy. Nor did I imply that you used the word "only". I simply asked a question. Put the nastiness on hold. We are having a civil discussion here.
 
Then please don't, because this is not about deafness seen as "healthy or unhealthy or pathological or cultural minority", or whatever. I clearly stated in my other post what I meant:

And in your statemnt that "healthy" is to possess "all of the senses", the implicit statement is also made that not possessing all of the senses is "unhealthy."


and as you can see I was talking about "best option in life".
best option in life is without hesitation - simply to be able to hear, see, smell, taste and touch.
It's just an objective fact, and it has no bearing on how I view deafness. or anybody for that matter.

Once again, fuzzy, "best" is a subjective value that each individual places on something based ontheir own perspective evolved from their experience. What is perceived as "best" by you is not neccesarily what is perceived as "best" by another who has the same superficial circumstance as you, but a different perspective evolved from extraneous variables that cannot be controlled for but which do have a tremendous impact and influence on attitude and belief systems. "Best" is far from an objective measurment.
IMO, this is simply irrelevant, what is relevant is to be able to hear a fire alarm going off.

Or to see a fire alarm going off, or to feel a fire alrm going off. Either way, the intent of the alarm has been fultilled...to warn one of danger. In my home, my smoke alarms are equipped with stobing lights. In my son's deaf school, the fire alarms were equipped with strobing lights. In a public situation, where there are other people in proximity, he can see their reaction to the fire alarm without visual components, and react accordingly. I beleive that my son is intelligent enough that, were he to see people hurrying toward an exit, he would follow suite and ask why later.



If you were born hearing impaired- I can believe that.
But being late deafened.. hmm.. no, maybe not outright tragedy but...

how are you going to communicate with your longtime best hearing friends who, you can bet your patootie, won't want to learn ASL just for you?

There is writing. There is texting. There is email. And, as I am selective about the friends I choose to involve in my life, and tend to surround myself with those who are tolerant and open minded, I don't see that my becoming deaf would put an end to the friendship. I have nearly as many deaf friends as I do hearing friends. Likewise, I have several hearing friends that already sign, some more fluently, some on a limited basis.
and how about your work, your courses, your everyday activities like as simple as talking on the phone - how are you going to accomplish all that, for instance?

TTy's. email, text pagers and writing. My courses? I would use the same accommodations I provide for other students. My work? Deafness would not prevent me from attending to my work duties. I work with the deaf, and don't see changing my occupation at any time in the future.




Fuzzy

I hope that answered your questions.
 
That happened to me so I moved on and made new friends. If the deaf person's hearing friends are true friends they would be willing to meet some of the deaf person's needs if not all. I never expected my hearing friends to meet all my needs but the breaking point was that they wouldnt return my calls or call me because of the relay according to them. As a result, I wasnt invited to some events so I figured it was time to let them go and find new friends. About 10 years later one of them found me and sent me an email. She said that she regretted for what she did. I am not gonna change everything about myself to meet all their needs...there has to be a middle ground. That's my view.

As for work, classes, and whatnot..I accomplished all these without a CI. Many deaf people do fine so what was your point of these questions? To me it seems like u are implying that deaf people need to be able to hear to be able to do all these things u mentioned? Tell me if I am wrong or not.

Exactly, shel. I answered fuzzy's questions before I got to your post, but essentially, we have said the same thing. Perhaps the isue is not whether we are deaf or not, but more about the quality of the people we choose to call "friend".
 
yes,you are right.. As a late deafened, those have been great problems to me and yes, no one wanted to learn sign or writing notes just for me.. Considering ASL to be a 'golden' solution is not right.. ASL is not the only appropriate solution for 'all' deafs.. For some it may be great but for some others it doesn't work out ( me included )

But, then again, highlands, you did not enter into your deafness with the same life experience that I have had. Therefore, the coping skills you already had in place were not the same as those I would have. I already have the skills in place...you had to learn them after becoming deaf. That is a big difference. I answered the question as it would apply to me, as it was directed to me.
 
But, then again, highlands, you did not enter into your deafness with the same life experience that I have had. Therefore, the coping skills you already had in place were not the same as those I would have. I already have the skills in place...you had to learn them after becoming deaf. That is a big difference. I answered the question as it would apply to me, as it was directed to me.

You are hearing ! you may be Deaf but you are not deaf.Period ! :)
 
I already know that. That's why I asked Fuzzy and that's why I told him he can tell me if I am wrong or not. I just want to understand why he made those comments.

Dont feel like arguing either.

Nothing wrong with wanting to hear. I like to hear with my HAs. Only thing I have a problem is when people forbid signing to small children to test if they are able to pick up spoken language or not but that is a whole another topic itself.

Agree and let's leave that topic for another day.
 
You are hearing ! you may be Deaf but you are not deaf.Period ! :)

No. I'm not deaf. But what does that have to do with skills necessary to deal with it? The question was, how would I react to it if I became deaf. And the answer is, I don't see that it would be a tragedy because I am already familiar with that world and have the communication skills I would need. I don't understand why you object to my answer.
 
No. I'm not deaf. But what does that have to do with skills necessary to deal with it? The question was, how would I react to it if I became deaf. And the answer is, I don't see that it would be a tragedy because I am already familiar with that world and have the communication skills I would need. I don't understand why you object to my answer.

I did talk to my hubby about this issue if he should ever lose his hearing. He said before meeting my friends and learning ASL, he would have been devastated and scared as hell. He said now that he knows how deaf people live their lives without being able to hear fully, knowing ASL, and having his house equipped with strobe lights, he is all set if he should lose his hearing. :giggle:
 
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