Cochlear Implants Laws

[Deaf Images]

No Flame War

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Though I've been accused of "knowing it all" by a few as well for being pro-CI.

The thing is - this individual (Deaf Images) has made statements like this before which leads me to believe its NOT ignorance that's making him say that but the fact he wants to start a flame war.

So without further ado, my suggestion is:

It is a fact as I am in town with more oral schools than any in towns around.....I have seen some students UNHAPPY with CI and I have some friends who decided NOT to use CI.....

so the bottom line is it is up to EACH individual to decide his or her fate with CI...

Not trying to start a flame war. I am telling TRUTH...

like it or not! Take it or Leave it!

 

[Foxrac]

It is a fact as I am in town with more oral schools than any in towns around.....I have seen some students UNHAPPY with CI and I have some friends who decided NOT to use CI.....

so the bottom line is it is up to EACH individual to decide his or her fate with CI...

Not trying to start a flame war. I am telling TRUTH...

like it or not! Take it or Leave it!

I agree

 

[Fragmenter]

It is a fact as I am in town with more oral schools than any in towns around.....I have seen some students UNHAPPY with CI and I have some friends who decided NOT to use CI.....

so the bottom line is it is up to EACH individual to decide his or her fate with CI...

Not trying to start a flame war. I am telling TRUTH...

like it or not! Take it or Leave it!

OK, if I educate myself, I'd stay away from CID because after hooking up with Washington University, they spend most of the students' tuition money on hearing loss research.

I'd stay away from Moog because the school is not family oriented.

I'd stay away from St. Joseph's only because of religion differences.

What are the other three schools you speak of?

*Disclaimer: My theory below.*

I reckon 75% of the successful implantees don't associate with the deaf probably because they don't see the need to do so. Then the deaf community only sees 25% of the successful implantees and 75% of the failed implantees. This defintinely help skew the deaf community's perception on the CI success and failure rate.

*End Disclaimer*

I agree with Eve: In the end, the actual implantees has the final say in how much cochlear implant has helped them in their lives.

 

[deafdyke]

I reckon 75% of the successful implantees don't associate with the deaf probably because they don't see the need to do so.

And I'd say that 65% of THOSE are probaly late deafened folks who probaly wouldn't interact with the Deaf community ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DeafImages, like it or not the CI is HERE TO STAY!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, the functioniaty varies tremendously from "can hear enviormental noises to functionally hoh" but it's not gonna destroy Deaf culture.
All it is, is ANOTHER hearing device!

 

[Eve]

Somebody seems to be suffering from some short term memory loss. Here, let me refresh your memory...

CI should be banned as it is merely an expensive hearing aid.

You got that right! CI does not work for most of Deaf community.

Got any statistics to substantiate that statement?

Cochlear is merely an expensive hearing aid....so therefore they are devices like hearing aids and CI they are same...

they are useless!

The audists are laughing their way to bank profiteering from this barbarian market. They have been trying to get the cream of the crop (babies) to do more implanting.

Heck! It is only expensive hearing aid and it does not benefit us at all. It is not a miracle. It is another form of quackery like I have said that for the past 20 years!

It appears to help only those who had hearing before, but for those profound deaf like me...

it is like pulling wool over eyes.

For the past 20 years since its conception, I noticed it is a failure as those implanted ones still rely on ASL, sign language interpreters and many do put away the devices when their parents or oppressors are not looking....so it proves it is a failure in my opinion!

Not trying to start a flame war. I am telling TRUTH...

Your “truth” seems to be a bit skewed and your previous posts indicate that you are indeed looking to start a flame war. Fortunately, despite your bouncing back and forth between “CI’s are evil” and “it’s a matter of opinion” (make up your mind!) it is pretty obvious that you are only repeating the same things over and over again. Maybe you should ask SM to borrow her recording device for easier pasting.


Sorry neecy, sometimes it is difficult to abstain from dropping a few crumbs for the trolls pleasure.

 

[Fragmenter]

Sorry neecy, sometimes it is difficult to abstain from dropping a few crumbs for the trolls pleasure.

Some of em just takes the cake and eat it whole. Gotta gogotta go.... time to

 

[Eve]

night night

 

[neecy]

Your “truth” seems to be a bit skewed and your previous posts indicate that you are indeed looking to start a flame war. Fortunately, despite your bouncing back and forth between “CI’s are evil” and “it’s a matter of opinion” (make up your mind!) it is pretty obvious that you are only repeating the same things over and over again. Maybe you should ask SM to borrow her recording device for easier pasting.

Sorry neecy, sometimes it is difficult to abstain from dropping a few crumbs for the trolls pleasure.

completely understandable but just be careful - ever thrown a couple crumbs to a seagull? Soon there's a flock! and then

otherwise no worry - you do a good job of digging up your quotes!

 

[sr171soars]

...
….I really thought you had to have sufficient nerve hairs for a CI to be affective (I could be wrong). I guess I should ask an audiologist on this one.

A CI actually "substitutes" for the lack of functioning cochlear hairs. You don't need any at all. The electrode lays on the nerve itself and stimulates it. You do need a functional cochlear nerve for a CI to work. Some people don't have that and that is a whole different ballgame.

 

[Eve]

Ok I do see what you are saying, but what we were told (I think, as I said before, I could be wrong), the CI stimulates the pre-existing hairs. I will probably ask an audiologist who frequents another forum about this issue. It is certainly curious.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

If there's a law on this issue, I'd prefer to have it on the side of the medical decision making. I would have required some sort of full disclosure, including information about ASL, for the parents to acknowledge. A fully informed consent to the CI procedure for DHH infants and children is always a good thing.

Fortunately, I'm extremely reluctant to intrude on the doctor/patient sphere of decision-making. I would be very hard pressed to support any sort of CI legislation.

 

[Boult]

Ok I do see what you are saying, but what we were told (I think, as I said before, I could be wrong), the CI stimulates the pre-existing hairs. I will probably ask an audiologist who frequents another forum about this issue. It is certainly curious.

Hi Eve see my post which I explained to sr171soars and should answer your question.
http://alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=503202&postcount=18



actually CI don't stimulates the hair but stimulates the auditory nerves.

That's why in the research on regeneration of hair cells. they said those with CI could have a chance in getting theirs regenerated that is if they stimulate their auditory nerves.

 

[gnulinuxman]

CI should be banned as it is merely an expensive hearing aid.

While it is more than that (it is really intended to be a replacement for the human ear), they should at least be banned for children. If they don't work, the kid will forever be behind in language development, and it's irreversible.

 

[deafmedicalpoet]

HA banned in Children need

While it is more than that (it is really intended to be a replacement for the human ear), they should at least be banned for children. If they don't work, the kid will forever be behind in language development, and it's irreversible.

HA are the cause of late development for deaf children its time to give the child a chance and let them choose for them self, damn it let the child(ren) pick if they do.

Deaflinuxgeek

 

[neecy]

While it is more than that (it is really intended to be a replacement for the human ear), they should at least be banned for children. If they don't work, the kid will forever be behind in language development, and it's irreversible.

IF it doesn't work the kid will be no worse off than he/she was before they got the implant. They won't implant a child that has enough residual hearing to benefit from a HA. Therefore they are PROFOUNDLY deaf to start with, and if it doesn't work they are *still* profoundly deaf, and no different from any other profoundly deaf child - other options will have to be investigated.

It sounds like you are saying if a child has absolutely no hearing whatsoever, they're doomed? And yet the anti-CI segment is saying the exact opposite.

*scratches head*

 

[gnulinuxman]

IF it doesn't work the kid will be no worse off than he/she was before they got the implant. They won't implant a child that has enough residual hearing to benefit from a HA. Therefore they are PROFOUNDLY deaf to start with, and if it doesn't work they are *still* profoundly deaf, and no different from any other profoundly deaf child - other options will have to be investigated.

It sounds like you are saying if a child has absolutely no hearing whatsoever, they're doomed? And yet the anti-CI segment is saying the exact opposite.

*scratches head*

Must it always be all-oral??? I am not talking about using hearing aids instead. I am not advocating hearing aids. I never have.

What's wrong with signing?

 

[deafmedicalpoet]

what's wrong with signing

Must it always be all-oral??? I am not talking about using hearing aids instead. I am not advocating hearing aids. I never have.

What's wrong with signing?

Yeah what is wrong with Signing its way better than oral unless oral is SO needed (which it isn't!!)

Deaflinuxgeek

 

[neecy]

Must it always be all-oral??? I am not talking about using hearing aids instead. I am not advocating hearing aids. I never have.

What's wrong with signing?

I never said anything about it being all-oral, or not using sign - I said "other options will have to be investigated" which means ASL or SEE or cued speech, weighing whether to put a child in a deaf school, or a mainstream program - other OPTIONS to be considered if a CI does not work.

you said:

If they don't work, the kid will forever be behind in language development, and it's irreversible.

How does that factor in to anything? They're profoundly deaf before implantation and if it doesn't work they're still profoundly deaf. Like I said it looks like you are saying if somebody is profoundly deaf they are guaranteed to fall behind in language development? Just because somebody is implanted with a CI doesn't mean they won't learn other languages as well (Cloggy is teaching his daughter ASL, as well as 2 other spoken languages, for example.)

And if a CI doesn't work - they'll still continue to learn whatever languages are exposed to them - hopefully the parents had planned to teach the children sign language, regardless whether they were implanted or not.

The issue that keeps coming up though are "failures of children implanted".... its been quoted that statistically there's a failure rate of 4-5%

So for every 100 children that are implanted, 95 of them will succeed in learning how to hear with the CI and 5 won't.

Why does everybody focus on that 5 that won't instead of the 95 that are benefitting from it?

I know people who get heart bypasses and sometimes it doesn't help and they still die. Does that mean because a few die, in spite of all the others where the surgery is successful, it should be banned too?

 

[Eve]

Okay, I got the answer I was looking for from an audiologist and she thoroughly explained it to where even I could understand it….

Okay...each hair cell has a neuron or neurons that innervate it. These neurons make up the tract of nerves called the vestibulocochlear (or auditory) nerve. Some of the neurons take info from the ear to the brain and some neurons carry info from the brain to the ear. As long as the neurons are intact, they are the ones that need stimulation, not the hair cells themselves.

Thanks to Boult also.

(it is really intended to be a replacement for the human ear),

Where do you come up with this crap? Please provide one iota of evidence of this statement having ever been published by a medical professional.

they should at least be banned for children. If they don't work, the kid will forever be behind in language development, and it's irreversible.

I am sooo glad you aren’t the one calling the shots.

HA are the cause of late development for deaf children its time to give the child a chance and let them choose for them self, damn it let the child(ren) pick if they do.

There is a reason why children have parents….they are not mature enough to make important decisions such as this on their own. Furthermore, research (not some ignorant statement made by a know-it-all) has shown that children do better with CIs the earlier they are implanted.

What's wrong with signing?

It limits a child’s resources and modes of communication to strictly within the deaf community. Don’t get me wrong, my family signs in the home, but we also speak/lip read, etc so that we can easily communicate in nearly any setting. Why be so limiting? What’s wrong with BOTH? (ie Total Communication) I am so tired of this one-size-fits-all mentality portrayed by some of the CI-opponents.

 

[Deaf Images]

The truth is it does not work for everyone!

Somebody seems to be suffering from some short term memory loss. Here, let me refresh your memory...



Got any statistics to substantiate that statement?






Your “truth” seems to be a bit skewed and your previous posts indicate that you are indeed looking to start a flame war. Fortunately, despite your bouncing back and forth between “CI’s are evil” and “it’s a matter of opinion” (make up your mind!) it is pretty obvious that you are only repeating the same things over and over again. Maybe you should ask SM to borrow her recording device for easier pasting.


Sorry neecy, sometimes it is difficult to abstain from dropping a few crumbs for the trolls pleasure.

The truth is that CI does not work for everyone. Among other things I have said are from the last 22 years of observations.

So be it!