CI's for under 1 ???

Welcome Believer!

Good luck with your daughter. We all have to do what we feel is right for our children. No one is in your shoes and no one can tell you what to do. People seem to think parents implant their children without research or that it's an easy decision. That is not the case.

My daughter will most likely be implanted in the beginning of 2007. She will be around 1 year old.
 
momtotoes said:
Hi, Believer! I am a believer, too.

My 16 month old daughter was implanted at 14 months - activated at 15 months. It has now been only about 20 days since she was activated, but she already is showing a huge difference in her babbling.

Every day we see something new. Even her laugh has become brighter. :D

Over the last few days, she has started pointing at and asking for her implant when she wakes up in the morning. As soon as we put it on, she starts kicking her feet and squealing with excitement. It is SO amazing... and brings tears to our eyes.

Once we made the decision, we never looked back. And it was the best decision we ever made.

Please visit us at:

Erin Toes and her Cochler Implant Journey.
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Erin is doing great!! I am so excited for you guys.
 
zxvasdf said:
it s like making a baby undergoing plastic surgery because you dont like its button nose
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But you're missing the point. It is one of five senses. People has eyeglasses to aid their vision, why not CI when hearing aid can't help?

Plus children with pigeon toed feet or bowed legs are put in braces to help fix the problem. Why not CI to help fix hearing loss? Plus it's not as invasive as you think. I was from the same school of thought until I saw my son go through everything.

If it were invasive, my son wouldn't want a second CI operation... but he wants the second one.

You can think whatever you want to think but my son is going to communicate with the world on his own. That is 100% freedom, my fishing friend.
 
zxvasdf said:
i am not against ci, just that the individual is not given a chance to make his/her decision in such a life defining event.
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Again, missing the point. My son would not have the ability to learn to comprehend speech nor speak intelligibily if it were up to him at an older age (at 18 years old). I am his parent and parents have the God given right to make a decision for their children.
 
I used the “wait until she can decide on her own” logic when I started getting pressure to have her ears pierced at 6 months. The argument makes sense in that instance.

But, as parents, we would not be doing our duty if we didn’t make the tough decisions we sometimes must make. If we could have waited until Erin was of an age to decide on her own about her CI, we would have.

But, if we want her to every option open for her, we can’t wait until that time. So we had to make the tough decision now for her. As her parents we are her advocates. That is our responsibility.

Anyone who thinks a parent makes a CI decision lightly is way off base.

I am quite confident she will thank us one day. And I am also quite confident if we had waited, that she would ask us one day why we didn’t – and why she has to work so much harder to make a dent in her language skills at 10 or 15 or whatever the “acceptable” age of “reason” is.
 
I don't think it is right to judge what a parent feel is best. If I could make a judge, I would say it is cruel for any parents to send their kids away to a school for the deaf just because they are deaf.

But I won't pass a judgment because I know that they feel it is the best thing to do for their kids to be involve with deaf culture.

And maybe they decide on the surgery because they don't want to see their kids go. Would you?
 
zxvasdf said:
............. i am not against ci, just that the individual is not given a chance to make his/her decision in such a life defining event. it s like making a baby undergoing plastic surgery because you dont like its button nose
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A comparison ready for an argument... The two don't compare..
So you feel that the child should continue to be deaf until it is WHAT age?
Heather (Sound and Fury) wanted it at age 5... is that OK ?
She got it at age 9 ... is that old enough ?

The discussion on "her/his decision" has two sides....
One say "wait" and the child can choose if it wants CI.
The other side says "now" and the child can choose to be deaf.

History has shown that people that become deaf later in life can adjust fine after a transition perion. (Example I KIng Jordan)
History has also shown that choose for CI later in life have problems adjusting to it and might never be able to speak at the level they wish.
History (short as it is) has also shown that children implanted before the age of two manage to develop normal speech...

So, with that in mind.... We chose to have our daughter implanted as soon as possible..
 
zxvasdf said:
probably both, depending on where you are coming from. i d understand invasive if it were life threatening, like maybe needs a kidney removed or a stomach stapled, but altering a physical property that will affect the child for life? i am not against ci, just that the individual is not given a chance to make his/her decision in such a life defining event. it s like making a baby undergoing plastic surgery because you dont like its button nose
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Of course you chose a comparison that seeks to make it appear as shallow and unnescessary as possible. Changing a child's button nose does absolutely nothing for that child in terms of future life choices. A CI on the other hand expands the range of communication choices in a child's toolbox in a world that is very communication focussed and uncompromisingly so.
 
Believer: Welcome !!! I must applaud you......... my child is bi-lateral and it was the best decision that we ever made. Our child was implanted at 11 months and then got the second implant at the age of 5. Our surgeon tried to discourage us from the second implant, but by that time, my child also assisted in making the decision. Any questions or help you may need, please holler!!
 
zxvasdf said:
it doesnt do absolutely nothing. attractive people are "luckier." it would seem you lack faith in your ability to teach your child to handle situations that require hearing and prefer to take the easy way out (which is quite hard). most people cite communication choices as a reason for ci and justly so... (as it has no function in any other capacity). it s as if you imply the spawn of your loins would be unable to deal with the harsh realities of an increasingly hearing-oriented society.
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I find your assumptions interesting. I'm not a parent of a deaf child. I'm the deaf one and I got a CI fairly recently as an adult. I also have a deaf member in my family who is struggling with his choices at the moment because he doesn't have a wide toolbox of communication skills in contrast to his friends with smaller hearing losses who do. This is the reality for many young deaf people. I'm not saying that being oral skilled is going to solve all children's problems but it does empower one just that bit more and give more options in life.

The CI surgery doesn't change people. It's still the same person who are essentially deaf but with moderate equivilent hearing losses compared to profound.
 
zxvasdf said:
yes... yet more valid points from you. but... the mentality is different today. back in the day deaf people knew the best they could do with was a bulky piece that attached to the chest or a bulky thing hanging off the ear. they accepted their status and made the best of it. they have had to encounter much more hardship than the regular person on account of their disability. they learned from it and became much better people. nowadays deafness can be "fixed" and if somebody isnt "fixed" they re "broken" and dont try too hard in dealing with things. they end up as whining little sons of bitches. the internet is also an asset and an impediment because it allows for anonymous understanding between people and it also allows one to hide behind a flickering monitor.
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To be honest I don't see myself as fixed. I'm still deaf, not a hearing person. In some ways I'm more aware of my deafhood with a CI than I was with hearing aids because I'm like totally deaf now. I like being deaf sometimes - especially at night or when I just want peace and quiet. However I do have an artificial way in which I can hear when I want to as well. I like the fact that my world is wide - I have my deaf friends and I also have my hearing friends as well.

I do understand the concerns though that some people have about hearing parents believing that their children are now "normal". I think that could be potentially damaging emotionally if it isn't handled right. However this isn't a specifically CI issue - the same attitude existed with hearing aids as well. Education is a way of resolving this issue and here on this website we have a group of parents who are right here and want to learn from us deaf older ones. And this is where I think that a welcoming deaf culture has a role to play.
 
zxvasdf said:
...
i m not impugning the parents' right to decide (though you are saying it s okay if parents decide if their child should star in a child pornography video? after all it s the parents' call)...
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Er...pardon me but I had to address this...

Several problems using the "child pornography video" analogy. First, it is a morally reprehensible thing to do. There is nothing worthy or beneficial to any child to have to deal with that. Secondly, it is probably illegal in all countries. There is probably not one culture anywhere that could or would justify any parent allowing their child to participate in such activities. Remember, most cultures are extremely conservative when it comes sex as a whole...much less some of the "liberties" that some countries and/or cultures allow or practice in more exclusive circles (we not even talking about child pornography).

I would hardly even deign to equate having one's child be fitted with CI with such heinous activities. The rights of parents does not go as far in such a manner that is so detrimental to a child and most people would agree on that issue. On the other hand, a CI is intended to enhance a sense that is lacking as a corrective procedure. Morally, ethically, and legally, a CI for a child is more of an issue whether one as a parent feels that it is in the best interest of the child. If it is, go for it. If it isn't, don't.
 
zxvasdf said:
i m not sure if you are stating if it is morally reprehensible to suggest such an idea or if it s morally reprehensible to do the deed itself. i m thinking people who say that parents have the supreme authority, the first say on everything need to think twice before saying such generalizations. by using that maxim they are in fact endorsing the possibility of said morally reprehensible actions.
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Well, suggesting the idea for an argument is very distasteful to me but acting upon it is really morally reprehensible. All I'm saying that such an "idea" is not even worthy to used as an argument in context of the authority of parents. It is well understood (or at least I like to think so) that being a parent doesn't give them carte blanche power over children. There are limits what parents can do with their children. Heck, just check the laws in any state of the union or even any local jurisdiction and you'll find plenty of laws on the books that will force parents to deal with endangerment, abuse and etc in the courts. I haven't even mentioned moral arguments yet.

As long as parents are doing what they think is the best interest for the child (and not break the law doing so [and I would add for myself moral considerations as well]), the issue should be a moot one for the rest of us. I would never assume when somebody states that it is up to the parents that they can do with their child in whatever form they like. It is tacitly and implicitly inferred that there are prescribed limits to parental authority. That is why I thought it was so bizarre to even bring it up (about child pornography).
 
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First of all, I want to welcome Believer! You've come to the right place and please pardon the very few dissenters! You'll learn to ignore them...

And, R2D2: I do understand the concerns though that some people have about hearing parents believing that their children are now "normal". I think that could be potentially damaging emotionally if it isn't handled right. However this isn't a specifically CI issue - the same attitude existed with hearing aids as well. Education is a way of resolving this issue and here on this website we have a group of parents who are right here and want to learn from us deaf older ones. And this is where I think that a welcoming deaf culture has a role to play.
__________________

You know, I just had a epiphany reading these posts. I started wondering what would have happened to Fragmenter and his sister IF we had them within the last few years and IF we decide to go the CI routine (Frag's sister probably won't qualify for a CI -- she has too much hearing) and IF my stance had changed like Frag did last spring. Wow, what a concept! BUT we cannot go back in time and "change the history" but at least Frag's son has a chance at being able to use all the tools available to him now! Frag, if you DO decide to go the CI route, I'll be behind you and cheer you on! My voice will be the LOUDEST! Love you, son! (believer, if you're not aware, I am 1st generation deaf out of 3 generations deaf)

Anyway Believer, you'll find an awesome group of parents on here -- they're doing the right thing for their children! I've been on this forum for over 8 months now and have yet to see one parent frivolously deciding on the CI option for their deaf children. They have tried everything else and researched and I know they're doing the best for their children and not trying to "fix" them...

You parents, ringing cheers to you!
 
zxvasdf said:
yes... yet more valid points from you. but... the mentality is different today. back in the day deaf people knew the best they could do with was a bulky piece that attached to the chest or a bulky thing hanging off the ear. they accepted their status and made the best of it. they have had to encounter much more hardship than the regular person on account of their disability. they learned from it and became much better people. nowadays deafness can be "fixed" and if somebody isnt "fixed" they re "broken" and dont try too hard in dealing with things. they end up as whining little sons of bitches. the internet is also an asset and an impediment because it allows for anonymous understanding between people and it also allows one to hide behind a flickering monitor.
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I was one of those people who wore bulky bodyworn hearing aids all through my elementary years. The teacher had to wear a microphone.

Now that I have CI, I don't consider myself fixed and

I still worry about nighttime when I can't hear, or when my battery goes dead at the wrong time when I forgot to bring a spare. And CI does improve my listening skills compare to hearing aids a whole lot, but I still can't distinish where the sound coming from (never had even with my hearing aids), and don't always understand speeches. I still rely on visual things. CI will never be same as real hearing, but it does help a whole lot. My doctor who did the surgery did not think deafness need to be fixed as a necessary. He explained the risks, the cultures, and all that. He is well aware that cochlear implant is not always successful and none of us should expect it to be. He told me he will not implant anyone who is not emotionally ready for the worst if it happens. and that it deafness is something you have to accept rather you have CI, HA, or use ASL.

edited: I should tell you that because of my implant, I can never restore to my hearing that it once was. I am more deaf than I used to be, meaning I can't wear my HA in my implanted ear anymore. I am full aware of it, but I wasn't afraid because I can't hear without my HA anyway.

I also want to respond to the poster that it is true that parents should never treat their kids as a normal hearing child just because he/she have implants. They still feel overwhelmed and frustrated just trying to understand conversations
 
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zxvasdf said:
morality is relative though law isnt (most days, when it isnt an infringement of one's rights). i hope i m not sending out the message i am an aficionado of child pornography; i m no buckdodgers. perhaps it was in bad taste to such an argument, but...
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Child porn is a bit different because it produces outrage across a broad range of cultures whereas CI implantation on children does not. I would call it a cultural sensitivity and I do respect that even though I don't agree. It's a bit like the issue of whether or not women should wear the hijab (muslim head covering) - important to muslims but not to other people.

It's a matter for the parents to decide as long as they are thoroughly educated about the limitations of CIs and have realistic expectations for their children, not expecting them to be "normal" superstars who play the pianoforte and speak Japanese, Danish and Congolese at the same time etc. I was raised with that brand of oralism and I just think "your child can be normal too" message was just over the top.
 
I agree. There is a big difference between child porns and surgery. Parents who do child porns are not thinking of their child.They thinking of themselves, and view their children as a money-making sex slave. While parents who decide the surgery are only thinking of their child's future. They only want the best for their child. If you want to get mad at a parent, get mad at the ones who gave up their child for an adoption because they are deaf (except the ones who can't medically care for a deaf, or young teens).
 
Guys, I am suprised you all havent figured this out yet. Look at these posts again, zxv is just trying to push your buttons. He is arguing anything he can to spur everyone on. C'mon, arguing the morality of child porn? He is acting like a stray dog. Everyone gave him a little attention (scrap food) and now he is hanging out waiting for more. Treat him like the betch dog he is acting like and tell him to "Scram". When he gets hungry, he will look elsewhere.
 
Ephesians2_8 said:
I also want to respond to the poster that it is true that parents should never treat their kids as a normal hearing child just because he/she have implants. They still feel overwhelmed and frustrated just trying to understand conversations
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I also agree with this. I don't think the people in Erin's support group in the deaf field do enough to make this clear to us. It is something we have to continually remind ourselves of. There will always be gaps in Erin's hearing with her CI.

I think the experts we are working with are hesitant to discuss that too much because they want to make sure we don't get discouraged through the early years. Or they don't want us to back off on the language building exercises.

The toughest thing is getting our friends and relatives to understand it. Particularly the grandparents. My mother has done exhaustive research on CIs and understands it all fairly well... but the other GParents are having a tougher time with it.

My MIL asked me the other day if Erin is still considered disabled. I had to explain to her that, yes... she has a disability and always will. It was hard for her to understand. She seems to be concerned about Erin being "labeled" as handicapped, as if it is flaw in her. It is tough for her to get past thinking the CI "fixed" her. I don't think I will ever quite get her to understand.
 
momtotoes said:
I also agree with this. I don't think the people in Erin's support group in the deaf field do enough to make this clear to us. It is something we have to continually remind ourselves of. There will always be gaps in Erin's hearing with her CI.

I think the experts we are working with are hesitant to discuss that too much because they want to make sure we don't get discouraged through the early years. Or they don't want us to back off on the language building exercises.

The toughest thing is getting our friends and relatives to understand it. Particularly the grandparents. My mother has done exhaustive research on CIs and understands it all fairly well... but the other GParents are having a tougher time with it.

My MIL asked me the other day if Erin is still considered disabled. I had to explain to her that, yes... she has a disability and always will. It was hard for her to understand. She seems to be concerned about Erin being "labeled" as handicapped, as if it is flaw in her. It is tough for her to get past thinking the CI "fixed" her. I don't think I will ever quite get her to understand.
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That's where I have conflicting feelings about CI's..it gives people, like your MIL, the false sense of the child being "fixed" and then expect the child to funtion just like a hearing person when it is impossible. Also, it is people like your MIL that sees deafness as a flaw therefore creating the oppression against deaf people in general. I am not saying your MIL is responsible for it but people who think like her that are responsible for viewing deaf people as incapable of doing more. Those are the people I had to fight against all my life and still do to this day. Some of my family members still think because I can speak so well therefore I can hear just as well with my HA and they get frustrated with me for not understanding what they were saying therefore, I get frustrated and it becomes a cycle. If people like them could just accept that no matter what, deaf people cant be fixed and try to learn some sign language too (dont have to be 100% fluent) or at least accept ASL as a language then maybe more people can be accepting of CI's as a tool rather than as a "cure".
 
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