CI's are just the start-Resistance is futile

Thank you for the link but it's not enough for me...

"In February, Humphries underwent another experimental stem cell treatment to regrow inner ear nerve hairs. It not only improved his hearing but helped him tolerate heat, which can be a problem for people with MS"

It does not state what sort of deafness, There were no mention of word... deafness just "improved his hearing" so he could have been mildly hard of hearing.
 
If something better than a cochlear implant comes along that will be great but over twenty years ago when we were researching the implant for our child, there were friends who were waiting for the big breakthrough in hair cell regeneration. They are still waiting.
 
overthepond said:
It does not state what sort of deafness, There were no mention of word... deafness just "improved his hearing" so he could have been mildly hard of hearing.
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Phi4sius has been in touch with a different person who experienced a 25db improvement. His loss was probably severe-profound before the improvement. Hopefully before and after audiograms will be obtained. If his loss was only "mild" he would have never been a candidate for stem cells! I wouldn't risk stem cells myself if I had only a mild loss!

rick48: If something better than a cochlear implant comes along that will be great but over twenty years ago when we were researching the implant for our child, there were friends who were waiting for the big breakthrough in hair cell regeneration. They are still waiting.
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Except that today you can get stem cells to improve your hearing in Costa Rica, China, India and a few other countries. Phi4sius is going to be a pioneer and get it as soon as the stem cell centers have a spot for him. Ill be waiting next in line pending results of the pioneers.
 
deafdude1 said:
There is already information on clinical trials using cord blood stem cells for young children under 18 months. For adults who want stem cells today, they can go to China or Costa Rica. I discussed this with dad and when I get more information/facts and see more results, we will travel there(to Costa Rica) Phi4sius is still trying to get audiograms of this guy who experienced a 25db improvement. I would love a 25db improvement because this will mean ill hear better than 20db with HAs in most frequencies plus all the other advantages.

20db with CI is unusual, I would not expect 20db as realistic, most people do not get to 20db, try 30-40db. But regardless, a 120db loss is useless for HAs and is probably just cochlear dead region. So yea, CI is of course great for 100+ db losses, no arguments there. For lesser degees of losses, you can get to 20db or better already with HAs. Yea CI can give you as much as 100db improvement if you happen to have a 120db loss but for an 80db loss, the improvement is only 60db with CI, but with HA you can attain the same improvement! HA's have their limitations for very profoundly deep losses of 100+ db but are great for losses below 100db.
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Then tell me why my own daughter is performing so much better? She was hearing "well" with her hearing aids, she has a 70-90 db loss, and yet no speech understanding. Clearly CI's do something that hearing aids can't.
 
deafdude1 said:
Link to 240 electrodes? It won't matter as it won't come close to stem cells by the time 240 electrode CI comes out, if it ever does. Compared to HAs for those with residual hearing, it may be a 10-20db gain at the high(er) frequenies vs. the best HAs(without transposition) But many have so much low frequency residual hearing that they may hear worse with CI below 1000Hz and better with CI above 1000Hz. Basically just a tradeoff! Plus you can use transposition in the HAs to access the highs anyway. This is why CI only really makes sense for those with no residual hearing anyway. I would love to have some of my nerves restored with stem cells. To restore them all will take much longer, a partial improvement will first happen and as stem cell technology becomes very advanced, eventually a full restoration.
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Not true. Simply not true.
 
deafdude1 said:
Phi4sius has been in touch with a different person who experienced a 25db improvement. His loss was probably severe-profound before the improvement. Hopefully before and after audiograms will be obtained. If his loss was only "mild" he would have never been a candidate for stem cells! I wouldn't risk stem cells myself if I had only a mild loss!



Except that today you can get stem cells to improve your hearing in Costa Rica, China, India and a few other countries. Phi4sius is going to be a pioneer and get it as soon as the stem cell centers have a spot for him. Ill be waiting next in line pending results of the pioneers.
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Probably? I thought you had all this research and science to back you up...guess not!

For the second half, I can only say

:bsflag:
 
google translation interview on stem cells and cochlear implants in Spain:
cell therapy using techniques of growth factors might be able to get solve a problem with cochlear implants and now is that each electrode stimulates their much larger region than would be encouraged in a healthy ear, which is equivalent to overkill, each electrode is a cannon, when what we would need is a more specific electrical stimulation. The combination of new manufacturing techniques increasingly smaller electrodes with growth factors that allow for growth of nerve cells in the vicinity of the electrodes, possibly facilitating the electrical stimulation was more specific.

source: Entrevista al Dr. Enrique Alejandro Lpez Poveda, fsico y experto en Audiologa: Los jvenes se estn quedando sordos antes por sobreexposicin al ruido
 
deafdude1 said:
Link to 240 electrodes? It won't matter as it won't come close to stem cells by the time 240 electrode CI comes out, if it ever does. Compared to HAs for those with residual hearing, it may be a 10-20db gain at the high(er) frequenies vs. the best HAs(without transposition) But many have so much low frequency residual hearing that they may hear worse with CI below 1000Hz and better with CI above 1000Hz. Basically just a tradeoff! Plus you can use transposition in the HAs to access the highs anyway. This is why CI only really makes sense for those with no residual hearing anyway. I would love to have some of my nerves restored with stem cells. To restore them all will take much longer, a partial improvement will first happen and as stem cell technology becomes very advanced, eventually a full restoration.
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(WO/2009/065171) ELECTRODE ARRAY FOR A COCHLEAR IMPLANT

My advice? Look into international patents for these things.
 
kokonut said:
Need to explain why and what is not true.
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I have never heard of anyone who received a CI and ended up with worse hearing. If you follow up, do your MAPing and wear the thing, you end up hear better. The actual nember in the booth may not be higher (but that is because Deafdude's audiologist is irresponsible and not aiding him to the standard of care) but you WILL hear better. You will understand speech better.

I'm not saying perfect, or that everyone gets the same result, but that in all the cases I know, they got more benefit than with aides.
 
faire_jour said:
I have never heard of anyone who received a CI and ended up with worse hearing. If you follow up, do your MAPing and wear the thing, you end up hear better. The actual number in the booth may not be higher (but that is because Deafdude's audiologist is irresponsible and not aiding him to the standard of care) but you WILL hear better. You will understand speech better.

I'm not saying perfect, or that everyone gets the same result, but that in all the cases I know, they got more benefit than with aides.
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Tell me how a CI will improve someone with "only" a severe(70-90db) hearing loss who hears aided at 10-20db with HAs? Just find a responsible audiologist that can aid you to the standard of care. Ending up at 30db with CI is going to be worse than 10-20db with HAs.

http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-cochlear-implants/69092-degrees-hearing-loss-speech-scores.html
 
deafdude1 said:
Tell me how a CI will improve someone with "only" a severe(70-90db) hearing loss who hears aided at 10-20db with HAs? Just find a responsible audiologist that can aid you to the standard of care. Ending up at 30db with CI is going to be worse than 10-20db with HAs.

http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-cochlear-implants/69092-degrees-hearing-loss-speech-scores.html
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What is their speech understanding scores? I don't care if you can hear at 0db, what does it matter if you can't understand speech?
 
faire_jour said:
What is their speech understanding scores? I don't care if you can hear at 0db, what does it matter if you can't understand speech?
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If you couldn't understand speech at 0db, the problem is auditory processing disorder. Even fully hearing people, 5% of them have APD where they poorly understand speech.
 
deafdude1 said:
If you couldn't understand speech at 0db, the problem is auditory processing disorder. Even fully hearing people, 5% of them have APD where they poorly understand speech.
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I mean someone with a 80db loss who cranks their aids up to "0 db". If they don't understand speech, what is the point?
 
faire_jour said:
I mean someone with a 80db loss who cranks their aids up to "0 db". If they don't understand speech, what is the point?
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Then that person has auditory processing disorder and would still score 0% with a CI or even stem cells. All he would get is environmental sounds no matter which technology is used.
 
deafdude1 said:
Then that person has auditory processing disorder and would still score 0% with a CI or even stem cells. All he would get is environmental sounds no matter which technology is used.
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My god, it's like talking to a bird. I say something, it says something totally unrelated back.
 
deafdude1 said:
Then that person has auditory processing disorder and would still score 0% with a CI or even stem cells. All he would get is environmental sounds no matter which technology is used.
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No. It is possible to not understand speech because of distortion and recruitment. A CI would help with that.
 
faire_jour said:
No. It is possible to not understand speech because of distortion and recruitment. A CI would help with that.
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A loss of 80db would not have alot of distortion/recruitment with properly fitting HAs. The exception is if that person has a large cochlear dead zone at perhaps all frequencies above 1000Hz. Then that 80db "response" is phantom, the reality is an infinite loss above 1000Hz. This is what Miss Kat may have. All her responses above 1000Hz are due to cochlear dead zones. It's the best way to explain why she hears so poorly. Phi4sius has functioning hearing to 3500Hz according to the piano thud test so he scores equal or better than CI. If Phi4sius had cochlear dead zones above 1000Hz, his speech score might be only 40% and he could get alot of distortion as well. So yea youd be right if we are talking about dead zones.
 
deafdude1 said:
A loss of 80db would not have alot of distortion/recruitment with properly fitting HAs.

According to you?!!
The exception is if that person has a large cochlear dead zone at perhaps all frequencies above 1000Hz. Then that 80db "response" is phantom, the reality is an infinite loss above 1000Hz. This is what Miss Kat may have. All her responses above 1000Hz are due to cochlear dead zones.

Did you pick 1000 hz out of a hat? Why did you decide it started there?

It's the best way to explain why she hears so poorly. Phi4sius has functioning hearing to 3500Hz according to the piano thud test so he scores equal or better than CI. If Phi4sius had cochlear dead zones above 1000Hz, his speech score might be only 40% and he could get alot of distortion as well. So yea youd be right if we are talking about dead zones.
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You are just some guy. I will continue to take advice about my daughter from educated professions, thanks.
 
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