CI without Processor

R

RonJaxon

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This is is just something I'm curious about. Just so you know I do have a CI (N5).

I'm wondering if it's possible for the Implant (Internal part) to pick up any kind of signal that would cause the us to hear something without the sound processor. Even if it's just a buzz sound or something like that.

I know this is unlikely because I think a power source has to be near it for it to work (Such as the sound processor).

Ron Jaxon
 
Ron: I believe the external pickups up all sound and transits to the internal. How could the internal pick up anything from outside your head?

I have never heard of just an internal working by itself.

In the future?

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
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Well, I'm thinking that it's some kind of Signal that sends it from the Processor to the internal part. I'm sure there's something else out there that uses the same kind of signal. That's kind of what I'm curious about.

What kind of signal does the processor send to the internal part?

One thing that makes me curious about this is that the N5 remote can test the sound processor by putting it (The round part with the magnet) to the back of the remote. It'll tell you if the processor is sending a signal. IT does this with no contact (As in current, metal to metal, etc...) Which I find curious. So I'm thinking that there must be something out there that can send the same kind of signal that the internal part can pick up. Maybe just generate a hum or a buzz sound.

Ron Jaxon
 
Being near strong magnetic fields can cause some buzzing. I've had a weird humming once when I was using a 120V soldering gun.
 
Hi Ron; I'm thinking that yes it is possible. As I understand it, everything that goes into the internal processor is passed through the skin inductively, I.E. like a transformer. Example, many years ago I was up at Arlington on the mountain with the big transmitter, 5K driver and two of them to drive the final. Don't remember for sure but I think it was a 5 megawatt transmitter that sent signals to submarines around the world when they were submerged. It was FM and had to switch when voltage and current were at the 0 cross point It was low frequency so Teletype had to be special as 60 wpm was the rule at that time and it was a bit to fast for the low freq switch. Very interesting. At that time I had ha's in the eye glass frame if I faced one way I could hear absolutely nothing, way over powered by RF. Also take a 40 Watt florescent tube outside and lite up like a Christmas tree. Not sure what one might hear that way with our implants but energy certainly could be transferred that way. Most likely have to be extremely high energy as I think the implant part has very low sensitivity for that reason. As for our remote telling us that the processor is radiating, its just detecting the signal and displaying the answer.I haven't tried it so don't know how close they have to be but induction does it. Capacitive may also be involved. We sometimes move/copy/transfer electrical energy by capacitive coupling or block DC components on an ac line. Does not work with DC that I know of.
Hope you are doing as well with yours as I am with mine. Get my second one turned on March 1st. Really looking forward to that and see what if any difference it makes to comprehension.
Regards
 
The answer to that is: RF waves.

It transmits power from the processor to the internal, with the sound data embedded in it.

I welcome you to come and try out the 700 watt antennae we have out back for our Ham Radio set up... Might suffer a bit of RF wave burn but we'll see if you hear something with the CI without the processor. :)
 
Ron,

This is some pretty crude calculation and I'm no expert but makes sense to me. Keep in mind that the max stimulation rate is 3500 times per second that the signal is sent to the internal processor to provide individual electrode stimulation. So if you break this down per electrode, it is roughly 160 stimulations per second per electrode. At 900 speed, it is roughly 40 stimulations per second per electrode. This is slower than TV images change which I believe is 56 times per second. The external processor has to send the electrode stimulation signal, and electrode stimulation intensity, power through the coil through expanding and colapsing magnetic fields and implant ID information. The expanding and colapsing magnetic fields are probalby similar to a spark plug coil to provide power.

This may seam like a lot of stuff to keep track of but keep in mind the speed of a computer processor is extremely fast. Much faster than 3500 times per second and probably still much faster than 10 times that speed.

To think about this, a cars computer can calculate the spark advance on an engine running at max RPM lets say 9000 RPM. The computer knows exactly where the crank shaft is in revolution down to the degree so it can send the spark at the right time before top dead center. So at 9000 RPM, that is 54000 degrees per second. During this time, the computer samples air temperature, manifold pressure, throttle position, and a bunch of other sensors to make the fuel injectors spray the right amount of fuel and calculates when to send the spark to the cylinder so it fires right. The ECM is pretty busy but it still has to wait for things to happen because it processes so fast.

In keeping all this in mind, the internal processor has a lot of data that must match in order to work correctly. This equates to protection to prevent unnecessary stimulation of the electrodes.

I have bilateral CIs and one processor has implant ID turned on and the other does not. When I place the processor that has implant ID on, it will NOT work on the wrong side. The processor that has implant ID turned off, it will work on both sides. When it is on the wrong side, the stimulation is not right due to C and T levels being unique to each ear. The result is a stimulation that is not right and is to loud. It is not uncomfortably loud but it is loud and voices don't sound right. Interesting though, I can still understand speech.

Anyway, sorry to ramble but very interesting to think about.

BTW, there are times I hear faint popping when my implants are off. I do not have any idea what this is from. I am quite sure it is not electrical discharge through the electrodes but I think it may be instead air pressure equalizing through the eustation tube which may move the cochlea a little since I hear it normally when I have a cold.

I am still fascinated that these CIs work at all and to me, what is more amaizing is that they work so well. As I have said before, what I hear with CIs is so closely the same as I use to hear before loosing my hearing and before I ever wore hearing aids.
 
RonJaxon said:
This is is just something I'm curious about. Just so you know I do have a CI (N5).

I'm wondering if it's possible for the Implant (Internal part) to pick up any kind of signal that would cause the us to hear something without the sound processor. Even if it's just a buzz sound or something like that.

I know this is unlikely because I think a power source has to be near it for it to work (Such as the sound processor).

Ron Jaxon
Click to expand...
EM fields might cause the internal parts to react in some way to give you the sensation of sound when thier is not really sound kinda like what makes spears buzz when they are not hooked up. That is just a guess tho.
 
I believe the Nucleas will use an RF signal at about 5Mhz. SInce you have to transmit the right data and transmit it at the right frequency, there is little chance of having something external setting of the CI. Keep in mind over this RF there is a digital signal sent. If the digital signal is not correct, the internal portion will simply ignore it. You do not have analog signals.

One area where it would be technically possible to have interference, is the electrode. They send out analog (DC) electrical signals and could generate a current if EMI were just right. However, keep in mind there are ways to minimize EMI and they are employed.

C1
 
posts from hell said:
The answer to that is: RF waves.

It transmits power from the processor to the internal, with the sound data embedded in it.

I welcome you to come and try out the 700 watt antennae we have out back for our Ham Radio set up... Might suffer a bit of RF wave burn but we'll see if you hear something with the CI without the processor. :)
Click to expand...


So if i set up a 700 watt antenna in my backyard, i'll have a totally implantable ci?
 
It is transmitted by low power radio frequency wave, don't try to get environmental residual sound because according to my audi: 1) High power signals produce strong magnetic fields to affect internal programs and processing altogether. 2) It may also fry the circuit with too much energy involved, buzzing is your cue to leave the area.
 
This is the first time I've noticed this thread (I see it was brought back because of a spam post :) ) but I wanted to add my .02 cents. I get this same kind of buzzing with one of my HAs. It is the analog HA that does that (and not the other, which is digital). It happens only when near things like microwaves, a radio, etc., and not all of them, so only some makes/models of appliances cause this. I guess based on the radio frequency.
 
Last week during a thunderstorm I wondered the same thing. I saw a distant but strong lightning strike out the window and it caused my unplugged toaster oven to light up on the counter. I observed this several times during the storm, and wondered if it might be why my implanted daughter is as afraid of lightning as thunder. Are any of you implanted folks able to sense lightning through your systems?
 
I know that power poles can probably interrupt CI.. My aunt lives close to a big power pole. and I remember i was walking around the neighborhood with my cousin and i would get a buzzing sound and i figured it was the pole so i'd turn off my CI and it would be fine. Sometimes computers do that too. But not all the time. :dunno:
 
same here but I heard a crackling sound with my aids so P1 and thunderstorms don't mix LOL!! (I set mine up to P2 so no crackles can happen during a storm)
 
iowaboy said:
Last week during a thunderstorm I wondered the same thing. I saw a distant but strong lightning strike out the window and it caused my unplugged toaster oven to light up on the counter. I observed this several times during the storm, and wondered if it might be why my implanted daughter is as afraid of lightning as thunder. Are any of you implanted folks able to sense lightning through your systems?
Click to expand...

I haven't met a young child that was not scared of thunderstorms.

I've worn my CI's through many lightning strikes, but haven't had any side effects. When I had my HA's, I would always pick up static near electronics, but with my CI's it almost never happens except when I used that one soldering iron.
 
Plans

1. Hook up a lantern battery to the cochlear implant's battery compartment. No more weak hearing aid batteries. The lantern battery is taking over.

2. The cochlear implant's radio frequency signals travels from the kitchen table to my head.

3. Totally Implantable C.I. mission accomplished
 
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