CI progress and starting school for parents of DHH kids

The choice for CI is more often than not a choice to have the child participate in the "normal" environment. To have the child integrate in the society around her, with children that hear normally.
These parents don't need to hear every time about what might happen later on, and how it used to be in the old days.
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Cloggy, *sigh* My point is that being able to parcipatate in the hearing world, doesn't nessarily mean that you'll be able to totally 100% belong to the hearing world. That is what the experts and pro-audist oralists don't tell you. I mean I and many other orally trained dhh kids are very pleased we can function somewhat in hearing society with our speech and listening skills. It's awesome not to have to depend on a 'terp for everything. But the thing is.....speech and listening skills aren't enough for EVERYTHING. Even many superstars still have significent difficulites with things like hearing in noise, social issues and so on and so on.
Yes, I know that I'm an adult.........but hoh issues have not changed since I was a kid. My parents were told the exact same thing that parents today are told..........that we don't need Sign, and or Deaf culture that we can assimluate effectively into the greater hearing society. Read this book if you're so convinced that things have changed : Alone in the Mainstream
 
*sigh*

DD If you are for the "full toybox" as you put it, why are you *always* so eager to jump on the NEGATIVE?! Why can't you project a more "wait and see" approach when giving opinions about implanting CIs in kids? Because, you're right. Not every person (read PERSON' not kid or adult), is going to do well. That is true, but what cystal ball are you looking at that says that they are always going to fail?

That's what you seem to protray in your posts..."Oh, no! She may not do well, so you better...."

I have said this before, but I believe it... Get your head out of those books you're reading, and talk to people! It might help you keep a more open mind about this. Not every parent wants to "fix" their child. In fact, I say the majority doesn't. They just want what is best for their child, and is that so wrong?

I really don't think so.
 
DeafDyke,

You know what? We do need to be able to function in the hearing society, because, face it, the majority of the society are hearing and use English and speak.

You can't expect everyone to learn sign just so they can communicate with you. That'd be like me being a foreign immigrant in the US, expecting everyone to learn MY language while I am in THEIR country...it just does not make sense. The major language here is ENGLISH.

I am SO lucky to be fortunate to understand and write English so well, even though my peers didn't. I often have a HARD time communicating with those that does not speak or write English well, and I am not the best signer. I can sign well, but sometimes I will be like "WTF are you saying?!" or whatever.

I have NO problem with ASL. It's great, but...it's not the major language here. If I have deaf children, of course, there is going to be signing, as I sign already anyway, but I would like for them to be able to communicate with the rest of the world too.

I can't tell you how many times I wish that I could speak better than I do (I do somewhat...eh...) I often feel left out, there are always so many communication barriers that has me often so frustrated! It has made finding a simple crappy job VERY difficult because most people are so ignorant that they are of the opinion that I need to SPEAK well and HEAR well to do some stupid simple task where there's really no contact with people in the first place. It's just...FRUSTRATING. I want my future children to have better than I ever did. I am not making my children ignore deaf culture at all, but I want them to have the opportunity to learn to speak well and to be able to hear so that they can also interact with the hearing world as well. (That's if my future children turns to be deaf.)

That's all I got to say for now.

*stepping off her soapbox*
 
deafdyke said:
Read this book if you're so convinced that things have changed : Alone in the Mainstream
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This book is based on one's personal experience of 50's not 2000's system..

oh man... you don't know when to shut up.

No wonder you are like this when you were a member at HE and that's how you got booted out for good. SEVERAL TIMES!!!
 
DD, i know you mean well and i thank you for your advice. As for Kayla's delay, it's definately not expressive and her speech sounds quite natural. People actually don't realize she is deaf until i mention it to them. Her language is probably what could use some help. But Kayla loves learning and whenever she's unsure about a word she has no problem asking me about it. I have'nt looked into TOD, in a couple of weeks she has hearing and speech evaluation at school and we will go from there. By law they have to accomidate her with what she needs and i have a big mouth...lol. I will make sure she is getting the education she deserves and i wont settle for less. Like cloggy said i'm working on today and now. And one more thing you have to remember and i started a thread about this before is that hearing technology has changed. Even though i know it's not 100% natural hearing but it's alot better than it was 20 years ago, and when starting out younger it makes a big difference.
 
Boult, actually you're WRONG.....The book is about her experiances in the mainstream in the '50's, but it's also a research thesis on mainstreamed dhh kids of TODAY!!!!!
By law they have to accomidate her with what she needs and i have a big mouth...lol. I will make sure she is getting the education she deserves
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That's awesome!!!!! And that's good that you're gonna take my advice and look into a TOD...Maybe also see about playgroups for dhh kids. Have you joined Hands and Voices and American Society for Deaf Kids yet? I actually think that mainstreaming can be a really good experiance if the right supports are in place....Like if the student has access to out of school resources and things like that, mainstreaming can be really really good. I mean it does sound like Kayla will do well for at least the early part of early elementary school. A lot of kids do well initially b/c early on the learning is really easy. Oh......you might want to do research and reading and stuff about possible accomondations for Kayla. I actually think that part of the problem in the past, was that most hearing parents really didn't know about all the possible accomondations for dhh kids. Now it's slightly easier, as you can research stuff on the net. Like be aware that she'll probaly need a notetaker around the time, when play learning turns into academic learning.
However, one of the biggest problems about the sped law, is that it tends to be interpreted very conservatively. Like the school can give her VERY minmal accomondations, and still be said to be following the law. I really hope that you can get good accomondations without a fight.....that would be neat if Kayla got a really good education in the mainstream, without being a super superstar.....I know it can be done. I've seen ASL users suceed in the mainstream! Even in jr high and high school!!! (those are times that can be hell for even hearing/nondisabled kids)
Sorry about being so negative.......but I mean I am kind of a cynic when it comes to public education. It does seem like a lot of public schools tend to be kind of miserly when it comes to giving out accomondations.
One thing that you could use as a crowbar, if you have trouble with getting accomondations beyond a bare bones thing, is that you could argue that it could help her so she wouldn't have to work so hard to get the information, thereby making her a better student, thereby increasing the possibilty that she'll become a contribuating member of soceity.
 
Like be aware that she'll probaly need a notetaker around the time, when play learning turns into academic learning. >>>>>

Maybe not. teachers can and do give lecture notes or outlines etc to accomodate kids who have various learning needs. Since the child in question is young she may be able to take her own notes since as Kayla123 has mentioned the technology that she's using is much better then 20 yrs ago. I know from personal experience that the speech sounds are much better then anything I ever heard from a HA.

>>>>>>However, one of the biggest problems about the sped law, is that it tends to be interpreted very conservatively. Like the school can give her VERY minmal accomondations, and still be said to be following the law. >>>>>>

Yes they will do the least you'll let them get away with. One trick is to not state the 'best' when requesting something they are not required to give the they are requried to give an education that is APPROPRIATE for the child in question, never let them forget what the I in IEP stands for. :) Also having them give you a PWN stating why they are refusing a service helps. (they'll really love ya:rofl:)

So Kayla123 you need to remember aren't required to give her the best, but they are required to give her education in a way that is APPROPRIATE for her (remember the I). REmember PAPER TRAIL...if you'd like to have samples of good paper trail ideas for IEP meetings just private mail me and I can either send you a file or tell you where to find them. It never hurts to be prepared. :) usually once they learn you know your stuff they usually either compromise or actually give what you're requesting.

Oh and study up on the delfi technique. They do use it. :) If you learn to recognize it you can disfuse it. :)
 
Thank you jag!!!!!! See everyone? It's not just me.......the law does tend to be interpreted very conservativly, and usually on the side of the schools. Unfortunatly, the schools tend to be kind of "one size fits all" even with their IEP programs. ....They tend to be resistant to innovation or new technology. I'm not anti-mainstream.......just very cynical as to public schools.
Oh, and Jag.........it's pretty hard to take notes and speechread at the same time, which is why I suggested a notetaker, for when real learning gets going.
Kayla123, where are you living? I could maybe help you track down some "enrichment style" resources. I mean I remember you saying that you do want Kayla to learn ASL.....Which is really good.
 
deafdyke said:
Thank you jag!!!!!! See everyone? It's not just me.......the law does tend to be interpreted very conservativly, and usually on the side of the schools. Unfortunatly, the schools tend to be kind of "one size fits all" even with their IEP programs. ....They tend to be resistant to innovation or new technology. I'm not anti-mainstream.......just very cynical as to public schools.
Oh, and Jag.........it's pretty hard to take notes and speechread at the same time, which is why I suggested a notetaker, for when real learning gets going.
Kayla123, where are you living? I could maybe help you track down some "enrichment style" resources. I mean I remember you saying that you do want Kayla to learn ASL.....Which is really good.
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SIGH....if more parents wouldn't be so trusting of the system thinking they actually have the childs interests as a top priority the kids would get reasonable accomodations without problems. Parents to can be lazy. They expect the teaching staff to have all the answers.

As for taking notes, we don't know if Kayla123's child is going to need to speech read, in which case the child could take her own notes if necessary. Since she's an involved parent if she finds that there is a conflict when taking notes I'm sure she will get the accomodations of either teacher notes or a note taker for her daughter if necessary. But a non involved parent who doesn't get such accomodation into the IEP has no one to blame but themselves when the childs education begins to fail. The system is what it is, they don't have to provide the BEST, just APPROPRIATE, it takes some (alot) of effort on the parents part to get the system to work for their child. but with all it;s bugs it's much better then before.
 
jag said:
Like be aware that she'll probaly need a notetaker around the time, when play learning turns into academic learning. >>>>>

Maybe not. teachers can and do give lecture notes or outlines etc to accomodate kids who have various learning needs. Since the child in question is young she may be able to take her own notes since as Kayla123 has mentioned the technology that she's using is much better then 20 yrs ago. I know from personal experience that the speech sounds are much better then anything I ever heard from a HA.

>>>>>>However, one of the biggest problems about the sped law, is that it tends to be interpreted very conservatively. Like the school can give her VERY minmal accomondations, and still be said to be following the law. >>>>>>

Yes they will do the least you'll let them get away with. One trick is to not state the 'best' when requesting something they are not required to give the they are requried to give an education that is APPROPRIATE for the child in question, never let them forget what the I in IEP stands for. :) Also having them give you a PWN stating why they are refusing a service helps. (they'll really love ya:rofl:)

So Kayla123 you need to remember aren't required to give her the best, but they are required to give her education in a way that is APPROPRIATE for her (remember the I). REmember PAPER TRAIL...if you'd like to have samples of good paper trail ideas for IEP meetings just private mail me and I can either send you a file or tell you where to find them. It never hurts to be prepared. :) usually once they learn you know your stuff they usually either compromise or actually give what you're requesting.

Oh and study up on the delfi technique. They do use it. :) If you learn to recognize it you can disfuse it. :)
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Thanks Jag, great advice! This will really help at the IEP meetings.:ty:
 
deafdyke said:
Thank you jag!!!!!! See everyone? It's not just me.......the law does tend to be interpreted very conservativly, and usually on the side of the schools. Unfortunatly, the schools tend to be kind of "one size fits all" even with their IEP programs. ....They tend to be resistant to innovation or new technology. I'm not anti-mainstream.......just very cynical as to public schools.
Oh, and Jag.........it's pretty hard to take notes and speechread at the same time, which is why I suggested a notetaker, for when real learning gets going.
Kayla123, where are you living? I could maybe help you track down some "enrichment style" resources. I mean I remember you saying that you do want Kayla to learn ASL.....Which is really good.
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We live in Chicago IL
 
as a top priority the kids would get reasonable accomodations without problems. Parents to can be lazy. They expect the teaching staff to have all the answers.
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True, but I think it's a combonation of factors. Lazy parents tend to be the parents whose kids are apathetic towards learning, and who are just parked in special ed b/c there's really no other place for them. I really do think that maybe the administration of special ed programs needs to be changed. There's a HUGE difference between kids who have LDs and kids who have "classic" disabilites. I also think that colleges need to have classes about How to Teach the Deaf and hoh Kid, and How to Teach Blind and Low Vision Kids, and How to Teach Kids with Physical Disabilites.......rather then having a two week unit on them under the generic ageis of sped.
B/c the thing is.......... otherwise bright kids WHO CAN acheive, but just need some mild accomondations, getting lumped in with the apathetic slackers IS a problem.
I also think that if more teachers understood that good accomondations, beyond the basics, will help kids ACHEIVE without working so hard, then the resistance to better accomondations would be a lot less. I remember in school, the attitudes of my teachers was basicily " Oh if we give Deafdyke good accomondations, she'll become lazy. She has to make do with crappy ones!"
I mean do you guys remember the book/case "A Case About Amy?" Where the parents sued the school b/c they denied her a 'terp? The ruling stated that the law did not mean for disabled kids to have strict equality.
 
deafdyke said:
" Oh if we give Deafdyke good accomondations, she'll become lazy. She has to make do with crappy ones!"
I mean do you guys remember the book/case "A Case About Amy?" Where the parents sued the school b/c they denied her a 'terp? The ruling stated that the law did not mean for disabled kids to have strict equality.
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If your parents went along with crappy accomondations without agurment then the fault lies with them. Parents should not get a free pass for not participating in their child's education. sorry. If you want the process to improve you have to get it through peoples heads that just cause they staff have teaching degrees does not mean that they have the answers.

I looked up your case. The case took place in 1982, that was the time when my neighbor was sending his severely disabled daughter to a nearby city for sped. But because he chose that placement (it did better meet her needs then the county program) he had to pay for her tuition or bus ride. I think the county paid for her bus ride. The time period you are talkig about was during the first few years of the IDEA. THe act has since gone through revisions a few times. Congress has ironed out some things so it's actually better then it was. Yes it's sad, but appropriate then was as stated here Wrightslaw - Caselaw - Bd. Educ. Hendrick Hudson Sch. Dist. v. Amy Rowley (458 U. S. 176) if you read this you'll find that if a child was making progress the education needs were concidered appropriate. My guess is later cases and revision to the act have changed that to some degree.

For parenst wrightslaw is a good source of info.
 
If your parents went along with crappy accomondations without agurment then the fault lies with them.
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When did I say that my parents went along with crappy accomondations?
IEP meetings were HELL.....Me and my parents would argue that I needed some other stuff beyond just basic accomondations. The school would act like it had been asked to provide me with my very own Harvard educated tutor. Their attitude was "Deafdyke's smart! She's just not using the accomondations! Those accomondations were fablous for the one or two other hoh kids that went through the system, so they should be fablous for her!"
Trust me, my parents fought.......and trust me, we weren't one of those families who shop around for a LD/ADD dx. We just wanted some better accomondations then what they were giving me.....it's almost like you have to be failing in school, to get more then bare bones "generic" accomondations.
 
deafdyke said:
When did I say that my parents went along with crappy accomondations?
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You said "I also think that if more teachers understood that good accomondations, beyond the basics, will help kids ACHEIVE without working so hard, then the resistance to better accomondations would be a lot less. I remember in school, the attitudes of my teachers was basicily " Oh if we give Deafdyke good accomondations, she'll become lazy. She has to make do with crappy ones!" "

No where did you say that you got resonable accomdations, just that the teachers wanted to give you crappy ones makes it sound like thats all you and your parents were able to get.

My daughter has been in sped programs since 1989, since that time Idea has gone through a couple revisions since I remember my DS mailing list getting notification to contact congressmembers with things that were needed to make the law better. (they got input both from the schools and parents) My daughter was the first child with significant delays to be kept in her home district in grades k-6. She is 'labeled' MSMI, she had communication delays and the school is/was very small and had always shipped any kids with severe/mod delays OUT. (cause they didn't have to keep them because they were such a small school) she entered K in hmmmm1995 I think could have been the next year. They had to accomodate her. If it had been 1982 or 3 she would have automatically been shipped out to a school 20 or so miles away, as it was the only school that was 'teaching' kids with disablities (MR). I know this because our neighbors daughter was supposed to go there but they chose to send her to a bigger city nearby, they had to pay her daily transportation to that city. This was under IDEA as it was back in 1982.

My point is the ACT has changed over the years, congress has revised it at least 2 times in my daughters 16 yrs. Things are not the same as they were back then or even 10 yrs ago.

The best homework a parent who's having problems can do is to print out a copy or request one from the gov. agency and read through it to see what it says. And don't forget to get a copy of your states guidelines.

I'm done, in some ways you are still back in your school days living in a hearing world htat your parents chose to place you in and blaming it on everyone in the system because while you seem to have done well academically your posts make it sound like you had problems socially. Since I went to school as a hoh person and my daughter #3 went to school as a hoh person and we both had completely normal adolestent friendships one has to wonder if personalities don't have alot to do with how succcessful hoh kids are in friendships and not the communication barriers that alot of us seem to have overcome.
 
Oh I agree.......in some ways things HAVE changed. Some schools are very open to decent accomondations......I'm just saying that getting 1.2 way decent accomondations can sometimes not be a cakewalk.
Even with the same school, two parents of two different sped kids can have a totally different experiance.
I think it's reasonable to warn parents of kids with disabilites, that while some sped cases get decent or OK accomondations, sometimes it can be difficult.
Am I living in the past? Maybe I am a little. I realize that things have changed, but the reason I am so passionate about being proactive about educational placement, is that it really did emotionally mess me up. I think too that it contribuated heavily to my depression......I mean being tormented by the kids at my school, suffering from the presumption that ALL sped kids are dumbass morons who are just going to be a burden on the system, really affected me, not being adquatly served in school etc.
Things have gotten a lot better in college. Even made Dean's List....have been shining....it's been pretty amazing.........I was actually POPULAR in college :)eek:) and finally have thrived in an academic atmosphere
Hopefully Kayla123, will have a pretty good experiance with her daughter being mainstreamed......but I think parents of kids who are mainstreamed have a right to know that mainstreaming is like everything else.....a wild card for which everything is possible, but nothing is promised.
 
Im getting in on this conversation a little late, but oh well. As far as the IEP is concerned, the parent is part of the team that writes the IEP. So with that said, the parent has a very loud voice when writing the IEP. We have just had our first IEP meeting with CID, our local school district, and the local SSD. We are very firmiliar with CID, but not the other two. We did our homework and had alot of questions. We came prepared and we let them know that right off the bat. Instead of feeling like a meeting where we were trying to convince the school dist and ssd to give our daughter the proper education she deserved, it felt more like they were applying for the job a teaching Lilly. We asked very tough questions for both schools, compared the two school to each other and made them kind of compete. The meeting was over 2 1/2 hours long. We had alot of questions answered, and let them know right from the start that we take our daughters education very seriously and we are prepared. I dont want this to sound like we were fighting with them. It actually went very smoothly.
As a parnet, it is our responsibility to do all of the research to find questions about the school systems. Then get those questions answered so you can make an informed decision. Then you must be a very strong advocate for your child.
Did I mention that this first meeting was for preschool?
 
Oh wow........but still.........CID parents and parents of oral kids in general do tend to be very very involved.
 
DD... in the past i was Anti-CI... until i met lots of friends who have CI.. they are doing very well.. still involved in both deaf and hearing worlds....

so i start accepting them.... but i still dont believe in having babies and toddlers getting CI.... I believe every deaf person has their own decision or choice whatever!!!.....
 
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