CI doctors and scientists do not care for Deaf culture and ASL?

[shel90]

My friend sent me this:

Scientist of cochlear implant Dr. Gerard Loeb predicts the unsustainableness and extinction unsustainablness of Deaf Culture in the near future as follows:

Edward Dolnick's sense of historical timing is as acute as his sense of balance. The cochlear prosthesis , on which I have worked for years with many other scientists, engineers, and clinicians, will lead inevitably to the extinction of the alternative culture of the Deaf, probably within a decade. There will still be deaf people, some by choice and some because the technology cannot address (yet) some forms of deafness, but they will be so thinly scattered that the Deaf culture will be unsustainable." Gerald E. Loeb, M.D., Queen's University, Kingston, Canada

Source: Atlantic Magazine, Deafness as a Culture by Edward Dolnick, Editorial, Page 8, December 1993

It just reaffirms that the doctors see deafness from a strong medical point of view and probably want to see the end of ASL. Of course, doctors are telling the parents that ASL is a no no which is very unethical.

 

[KarissaMann05]

It's sort of similar to this.

 

[shel90]

It's sort of similar to this.

I watched it...man, these organizations are definitely not unbiased. It is ok for hearing babies to learn sign but not ok for deaf babies to learn sign. What is wrong with this world?

When my friend sent me that link about what that scientist said about Deaf culture, I can undy why so many deaf people feel against CIs even though the CIs themselves have nothing to do with it. What they are against are these kinds of views.

 

[KarissaMann05]

I watched it...man, these organizations are definitely not unbiased. It is ok for hearing babies to learn sign but not ok for deaf babies to learn sign. What is wrong with this world?

When my friend sent me that link about what that scientist said about Deaf culture, I can undy why so many deaf people feel against CIs even though the CIs themselves have nothing to do with it. What they are against are these kinds of views.

Yeah... the first post that you wrote is making me so angry. I meant, why do they want to end the Deaf community for? Sheesh. Funny, it look like it begins to not accpet many natural things so they used the fake things instead.

Somehow, I have a little hope for my community to survive the anti-deaf world.. Uhmm..

 

[neecy]

I call BS. There will always be people who CI's can't help, or who chose NOT to have CI for whatever reason. Deaf culture will endure - this is the kind of fear-mongering by ignorant people that causes the misunderstandings, and anger that we see on deaf boards where CI is concerned.

 

[shel90]

I call BS. There will always be people who CI's can't help, or who chose NOT to have CI for whatever reason. Deaf culture will endure - this is the kind of fear-mongering by ignorant people that causes the misunderstandings, and anger that we see on deaf boards where CI is concerned.

Source has been provided...my friend is not someone who would spread BS around.

This is not about people who choose to get CIs..this is about doctors' views on deaf culture and ASL.

My friend is doing a research paper for her thesis..she discovered that there is a team of CI doctors writing a proposal to make it mandatory for all deaf babies with CIs not to be sent to any signing programs whatsoever.

I do not associate with people who make up BS stories and if I didnt believe this was legitmate, I wouldnt post it here.

This is not about anger from us deaf posters...this is about the kind of view that hurts us and ASL with all the misconceptions about the Deaf community and ASL. Remember AGBell's letter to Pespi?

I think the Deaf community has a valid reason to be upset about this.

 

[neecy]

Well I think any CI doctor who recommends CI-implanted children should be denied the ability to learn sign language if that is the choice of the parents, is crazy!!! Its not THEIR call as to how a child should be raised/educated! Sounds far too much like Big Brother for my taste.

 

[shel90]

Well I think any CI doctor who recommends CI-implanted children should be denied the ability to learn sign language if that is the choice of the parents, is crazy!!! Its not THEIR call as to how a child should be raised/educated! Sounds far too much like Big Brother for my taste.

Right ..that's what I thought. Before, I thought their job was just to do the implantation process but what I am finding out from some of my friends during their research process is not what I thought before.

 

[vallee]

Gerald E. Loeb - PIBBS - Graduate Programs in Biomedical & Biological Sciences - University of Southern California

Here is this doctor's bio. Also his name is spelled wrong in Shel's thread. Look at the date 1993. A lot has changed since 1993.

 

[R2D2]

Just a thought. I noticed that the quotation was dated in 1993, which is 15 years ago. Perhaps it might be wise for your friend to check again with this surgeon as to whether he still has the same beliefs?

15 years ago, the deaf community was much more opposed to CIs to the point that they opposed them on deaf adults who had made their own choices. Things move on.

Also as for making it mandatary for CI kids not to go on signing programs, I think we need more info. Are they talking about 100% sign program with no use of hearing and voice and are they talking about shortly after the CI has been activated? If so, I could understand that. Why waste all those funds on a CI for it not to be used in speech therapy at all?
If they are talking about bilingualism where speech therapy is a component of the program then I think that would be a silly thing for them to do, as children with CIs have a wide range of needs. So if your friend can provide a bit more detail then this would help, otherwise it's a bit too vague.

 

[R2D2]

Also, I'm not sure if your friend would be interested but Graeme Clark, the Australian inventor of the CI was a CODA. He may not have had a deaf culture or ASL perspective, but you can see that his viewpoint of helping deaf people to hear was framed by the memory of his struggles of his father who had a pharmacy shop but could not hear the customers. He has an autobiography somewhere - I was leafing through it at the audie's while I was having some hearing tests. I think there is some discussion there of the reaction of deaf culture to his work.

 

[KarissaMann05]

If you think it is not true, then why did I see some babies and toddlers with CIs around me? I did ask a few of parents of CI kids about doctors and CIs, and they claimed doctors said sign languages are not necessary (or recommanded) but CIs are very recommanded. Fortunately, one of them also claimed his/her doctor suggested a sign language may be good optional and that parent chose both oral and sign.

Clearly, there are still frauds anywhere else by doctors. There are only a few good doctors give parents a netural information about oral & sign.

It's a sort of like what my #2 post said.. Hearing babies are allowed to sign and deaf babies are not allowed to sign. Really, I don't like how people tried to push my community away.

Deny this post I wrote? It's up to you.

Now -- I ask you, why is that? Why are there still frauds around the America? Think hardly.

 

[shel90]

Just a thought. I noticed that the quotation was dated in 1993, which is 15 years ago. Perhaps it might be wise for your friend to check again with this surgeon as to whether he still has the same beliefs?

15 years ago, the deaf community was much more opposed to CIs to the point that they opposed them on deaf adults who had made their own choices. Things move on.

Also as for making it mandatary for CI kids not to go on signing programs, I think we need more info. Are they talking about 100% sign program with no use of hearing and voice and are they talking about shortly after the CI has been activated? If so, I could understand that. Why waste all those funds on a CI for it not to be used in speech therapy at all?
If they are talking about bilingualism where speech therapy is a component of the program then I think that would be a silly thing for them to do, as children with CIs have a wide range of needs. So if your friend can provide a bit more detail then this would help, otherwise it's a bit too vague.

That is exactly what my friend learned while doing her research...that the doctors are starting a committee to write a proposal making it mandatory for all implanted babies to be placed in 100% oral only programs. I think she said they will submit it to the FDA ..but I have to follow up with her if it was the FDA or some other government agency that regulates policies regarding education for deaf children.

 

[lovezebras]

Obvs the doctor was wronggg cuz it's been a decade and more since then ('93) and I deaf culture is still here! Also..the guy is from kingston, ON..not far from where i live..those ppl at queens are a bunch of partiers lol so maybe he pounded some brews before he wrote this...? j/k of course..

 

[shel90]

Obvs the doctor was wronggg cuz it's been a decade and more since then ('93) and I deaf culture is still here! Also..the guy is from kingston, ON..not far from where i live..those ppl at queens are a bunch of partiers lol so maybe he pounded some brews before he wrote this...? j/k of course..

That's hilarous!!!

Yes, I know it was in 1993 but there are still doctors out there today that follow this view. I dont know about that doctor himself, if he has changed or not but the point is that view is very harmful, in my opinion.

 

[R2D2]

That is exactly what my friend learned while doing her research...that the doctors are starting a committee to write a proposal making it mandatory for all implanted babies to be placed in 100% oral only programs. I think she said they will submit it to the FDA ..but I have to follow up with her if it was the FDA or some other government agency that regulates policies regarding education for deaf children.

Well, if that's true then I don't think that's right to make a mandatory proposal applicable to all deaf children with CIs. All deaf children have different needs and should be treated as such.

 

[shel90]

Well, if that's true then I don't think that's right to make a mandatory proposal applicable to all deaf children with CIs. All deaf children have different needs and should be treated as such.

The idea to begin with frightens me. I hope it gets denied if the proposal ever does get submitted.

 

[R2D2]

The idea to begin with frightens me. I hope it gets denied if the proposal ever does get submitted.

Presumably, educators and professionals who work with deaf children would have some sort of input into a proposal like that. I can imagine that if it got that far it would be very controversial indeed. I think that even parents who have educated their children orally but who are pro education choice would oppose it.

 

[shel90]

Presumably, educators and professionals who work with deaf children would have some sort of input into a proposal like that. I can imagine that if it got that far it would be very controversial indeed. I think that even parents who have educated their children orally but who are pro education choice would oppose it.

EEEHHH...due to my personal experience with parents who have raised their children orally, I have a hard time believing that they would oppose to it. I could be wrong but my experience has shown me that ASL has always been the very last resort if nothing else worked for them.

 

[R2D2]

EEEHHH...due to my personal experience with parents who have raised their children orally, I have a hard time believing that they would oppose to it. I could be wrong but my experience has shown me that ASL has always been the very last resort if nothing else worked for them.

Yes, they might adopt that position for themselves but they may be reluctant to approve of it being forced on everyone else. For example, a deaf couple might want their kid to be implanted so that speech can be learned but want a bilingual approach to education for that child because it works for their family. You can see how it removes peoples' choices and America is very much about having the choice isn't it?