CI--Deaf or Hearing?

[jillio]

Having read about 10 screens about supposedly NON EXISTENT ENTITY called -militant deaf/'DEAF/Deaf person- even seems "hearing can be subsumed as well" still leads back to the "apparent simple question"- If non existent why "get excited"?

So the select group of NON militant deaf would be who is left over-everybody?

Deaf Caroline: If actually read Heather Marsden's article-which I have- she is a NOT Deaf Militant. She suggest that "they" go an chop wood to get rid of their "anger".I suppose it possible she "doesn't know what she is talking about". Does the fact it was published in Deaf Canada Today suggest something?

In real life- I have NEVER discussed Deaf Militants-I don't know any. Except for the articles I have read.

However can one deduce from the many comments here-alleged nonexistence seems somewhat tenuous to sustain?
No implication-per se- who "alleges" here-fits. Not to read "backwards" .

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

Well, that post right there is proof positive that you have no idea what consititutes a Deaf militant. No, you have never discussed Deaf militants. You don't posess the knowledge necessary to enter into a discussion of the topic. However, you have used the phrase any number of times as a tactic for insulting, denigrating, and flaming.

I would think that it takes a great deal of effort to maintain the delusions and denial you hold about your own behavior and intent. It is obvious to all but a few here, and those few are suffering from their own inability to accept responsibility for their behavior. It is truly sad that someone such as yourself takes such enjoyment from insulting others. What a miserable existence.

 

[sallylou]

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Grendel contemplates that dr phil may have an kind intent in his name calling. But she perceives that he is nice to her so she gives him a free pass. Nice.

 

[GrendelQ]

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Grendel contemplates that dr phil may have an kind intent in his name calling. But she perceives that he is nice to her so she gives him a free pass. Nice.

In this thread, I identified my daughter as Deaf, but Jillio insists that she can't be considered a Deaf child, regardless of her language, her enrollment at an ASL-based Deaf school, her customs and friends and indicates that affiliation is something unattainable until she's in her 20s.

On the other hand, it seems that drphil self-identifies as non-militant deaf, and has welcomed me. I do think that's very nice. It's not a pass.

 

[deafskeptic]

In this thread, I identified my daughter as Deaf, but Jillio insists that she can't be considered a Deaf child, regardless of her language, her enrollment at an ASL-based Deaf school, her customs and friends and indicates that affiliation is something unattainable until she's in her 20s.

On the other hand, it seems that drphil self-identifies as non-militant deaf, and has welcomed me. I do think that's very nice. It's not a pass.

I dunno about your daughter but I didn't begin to id as deaf till I was in 4th grade and I was born deaf. I have the feeling even those with ASL as their first language will prolly not id as deaf or Deaf about 4th grade or even later.

I got mainstreamed in the 4th grade so I got very consciouss of being deaf.

Note that I didn't say I started to id as Deaf in the forth grade. I didn't know about the Deaf World then.

 

[jillio]

In this thread, I identified my daughter as Deaf, but Jillio insists that she can't be considered a Deaf child, regardless of her language, her enrollment at an ASL-based Deaf school, her customs and friends and indicates that affiliation is something unattainable until she's in her 20s.

On the other hand, it seems that drphil self-identifies as non-militant deaf, and has welcomed me. I do think that's very nice. It's not a pass.

Yes, jillio does insist that, and has reams of developmental psychology texts and medical evidence to support what she insists. You identify her as Deaf, and yet that is not your identification to make. You are hearing. Affiliation is not unattainable until her 20's. Personal identification is not unless you have discovered a way to accelerate the development of a 5 year old so that she has the biological, cognitive, and psychological development of a 20+ year old. I doubt seriously that is the case.

Of course you do. We expect nothing else of you. You have finally admitted what the rest of us have known for some time.

 

[sallylou]

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You are giving him a pass on how he treats us. It's a matter of character. I don't.associate with a person who treats other people badly. To be complacent is to be complicit.

 

[jillio]

I dunno about your daughter but I didn't begin to id as deaf till I was in 4th grade and I was born deaf. I have the feeling even those with ASL as their first language will prolly not id as deaf or Deaf about 4th grade or even later.

I got mainstreamed in the 4th grade so I got very consciouss of being deaf.

Note that I didn't say I started to id as Deaf in the forth grade. I didn't know about the Deaf World then.

They will begin to explore it at about the 4th grade, because that is the general age that children become very aware of differences and their implications. But it takes an ability to engage in higher reasoning to fully understand the implications of the cultural ID of Deaf, and to embrace it by choice.

 

[deafskeptic]

They will begin to explore it at about the 4th grade, because that is the general age that children become very aware of differences and their implications. But it takes an ability to engage in higher reasoning to fully understand the implications of the cultural ID of Deaf, and to embrace it by choice.

Yeah. I didn't really id as Deaf till I was in my 30s.

 

[jillio]

Yeah. I didn't really id as Deaf till I was in my 30s.

That would be an average age for it to happen. Especially deaf of hearing. They have a lot of crap to reconcile from their past.

 

[GrendelQ]

I dunno about your daughter but I didn't begin to id as deaf till I was in 4th grade and I was born deaf. I have the feeling even those with ASL as their first language will prolly not id as deaf or Deaf about 4th grade or even later.

I got mainstreamed in the 4th grade so I got very consciouss of being deaf.

Note that I didn't say I started to id as Deaf in the forth grade. I didn't know about the Deaf World then.

Li has been at a school for the deaf with a very strong philosophy of inculcating Deaf Culture for 4 years now. The school has 40% Deaf staff. The director of her program during the first 2 years is Deaf, and very much of an activist. For two years she was at an ASL-based daycare with CODAs and Deaf and HOH kids, as well as several hearing kids of teachers at the school. Her school has have huge swaths of paper filled with kids' and staff pictures under 2 labels: "Deaf" and "Hearing" -- the kids seem to distinguish each other, though, less by audiology and more by language. My child calls herself: "Deaf. And Hearing." Which surprised me the first time I heard her say that. She calls one of her hearing teachers "Deaf and Hearing" too -- she's from a family with several Deaf household members, a Deaf daughter now at Gally who was Li's babysitter for a couple of years before graduating from TLC -- very much more culturally Deaf than another equally fluent teacher whom Li calls Hearing. Her friends are Deaf and Deaf of Deaf. I mentioned that I think at some level she affiliates, feels a connection that's not based on just audiological factors. Much the same way she is very much proud of and interested in being Chinese, and all of the cultural associations that come with it. I may not share these connections, but I certainly don't discourage them.

 

[jillio]

Li has been at a school for the deaf with a very strong philosophy of inculcating Deaf Culture for 4 years now. The school has 40% Deaf staff. The director of her program during the first 2 years is Deaf, and very much of an activist. For two years she was at an ASL-based daycare with CODAs and Deaf and HOH kids, as well as several hearing kids of teachers at the school. Her school has have huge swaths of paper filled with kids' and staff pictures under 2 labels: "Deaf" and "Hearing" -- the kids seem to distinguish each other, though, less by audiology and more by language. My child calls herself: "Deaf. And Hearing." Which surprised me the first time I heard her say that. She calls one of her hearing teachers "Deaf and Hearing" too -- she's from a family with several Deaf household members, a Deaf daughter now at Gally who was Li's babysitter for a couple of years before graduating from TLC -- very much more culturally Deaf than another equally fluent teacher whom Li calls Hearing. Her friends are Deaf and Deaf of Deaf. I mentioned that I think at some level she affiliates, feels a connection that's not based on just audiological factors. Much the same way she is very much proud of and interested in being Chinese, and all of the cultural associations that come with it. I may not share these connections, but I certainly don't discourage them.

None of that is an indication that she is developmentally capable of understanding the implications of cultural affiliation and making a conscious choice to embrace the values and traditions of any specific culture. It simply means that when she is developmentally able to make that choice for herself, she will have the experience and knowledge that will allow her to make an informed choice.

She is proud of being Chinese because you have led her in that direction. She has no more an idea of what it means to be culturally Chinese than she does regarding what it means to be culturaly Deaf. Again, that is something she will explore and decide when she is capable of doing so.

 

[sallylou]

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She's a child. A person's identity isn't fully formed until after adolescence, which brain research has shown lasts far longer than previously believed. The frontal lobe doesn't fully function until well after 18 yo.

 

[GrendelQ]

They will begin to explore it at about the 4th grade, because that is the general age that children become very aware of differences and their implications. But it takes an ability to engage in higher reasoning to fully understand the implications of the cultural ID of Deaf, and to embrace it by choice.

"To fully understand the implications of the cultural ID of Deaf? " As I mentioned before, she's not writing a thesis on being Deaf, I said 'she gets it on some level that's important to her'. You can dismiss that. I don't.

But then, it's really not for you to determine who is Deaf and who isn't.

 

[sallylou]

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This is not all about you.

 

[jillio]

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She's a child. A person's identity isn't fully formed until after adolescence, which brain research has shown lasts far longer than previously believed. The frontal lobe doesn't fully function until well after 18 yo.

Right. Between the ages of 21 and 25 on average. And identity formation is one of the developmental tasks of adolescence and young adulthood, not of early childhood.

 

[jillio]

"To fully understand the implications of the cultural ID of Deaf? " As I mentioned before, she's not writing a thesis on being Deaf, I said 'she gets it on some level that's important to her'. You can dismiss that. I don't.

But then, it's really not for you to determine who is Deaf and who isn't.

Nor is she IDing as Deaf. You are IDing her as Deaf, and that is not your identification to make. It is a self appointed identity, not one handed to you by your parent.. Yes, she understands on the level of a 5 year old. Not on the level of an adult with a fully developed frontal lobe and the ability to engage in higher reasoning and thought processes. And those capabilities are necessary for a fully developed, chosen identity.

 

[GrendelQ]

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This is not all about you.

I wish that were so. But Jillio refuses to let up on the personal attacks, and can't let a post go by without a challenge.

 

[jillio]

I wish that were so. But Jillio refuses to let up on the personal attacks, and can't let a post go by without a challenge.

Wah, wah, wah. Jillio is not making personal attacks. Jillio is making observations and giving lessons on child development.:roll: Playing the victim card does not earn you points around here.

No need to wish it were so. I can guarantee you that it is not all about you, despite your repeated attempts to make it so.

 

[sallylou]

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Don't play the victim. Pity doesn't sell in the Deaf community. And you don't get a cookie for allegedly supporting the Deaf.

 

[GrendelQ]

Nor is she IDing as Deaf. You are IDing her as Deaf, and that is not your identification to make. It is a self appointed identity, not one handed to you by your parent.. Yes, she understands on the level of a 5 year old. Not on the level of an adult with a fully developed frontal lobe and the ability to engage in higher reasoning and thought processes. And those capabilities are necessary for a fully developed, chosen identity.

No, she is n the process of defining herself, making sense of who she is and how she is like others, how she is different. She's not an adult, so no, I'm not claiming she's doing it at the level of an adult.

But again, it's not for you to determine whether or not she is culturally Deaf or whether or not she sees herself as Deaf.