Reba, those of us who aren't christian aren't anti-Christian and don't have the "Christianity is evil" mentlaity.....I'm just pointing out that you (and other Christians) seem to think that b/c a thing is Christian it's automaticly good! Yes, there are good things about Christianity, but just b/c something is "christian"...it doesn't make it better then a secular alternative. There are "bad sides or downsides to Christianity you know.
Church in Rosemount, MN
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If it truly is of Christ, then yes, it is good. If it is false and just using the name of Christ, then it is bad. There is no "secular alternative" to Christ. Only Christ can save a sinner and give eternal life.deafdyke said:
I know there's no secular alternative to christ........but why is a Christian deerhunt or Christian aerobics better then secular aerobics?
Seriously.......you're all idealizing things like PCC or Hyles Anderson Christian college....and you don't see that a lot of people have been hurt by stupid dumbasses professing to follow the One True Path. What if scandals erupted about PCC?What if scandels erupted about your chrisitan school? Would you defend them blindly b/c you love christianity so much or would you consider the posibilty that maybe there's something messed up and imperfect about those insistutions?
Seriously.......you're all idealizing things like PCC or Hyles Anderson Christian college....and you don't see that a lot of people have been hurt by stupid dumbasses professing to follow the One True Path. What if scandals erupted about PCC?What if scandels erupted about your chrisitan school? Would you defend them blindly b/c you love christianity so much or would you consider the posibilty that maybe there's something messed up and imperfect about those insistutions?
pek1
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deafdyke said:
Deafdyke,
For HAC college, there has been...google the name "David Hyles" and you will learn more than you'd care to. His late, dirty old man father, Jack, wanted to cover up what his sonny boy did. If I had known all this myself, I never would have associated with HAC, 1st Baptist Rosemount or any of them. Have you heard of Bob Jones University? There is at least one scandal there, which is racism at its worst. Oh, they "changed their minds" alright...only so that they could get their greedy, dirty little hands on federal money.
As for the scandals of the '80's...I worked at PTL during the summer of 1987 and have never, ever, in my life, seen such hatred. Unfortunately, Jim Bakker was the fall guy on this and was convicted because he was the man in charge...his people under him and other ministries wanted PTL to go bust...well, now, they have their desire. As for "me and my money..." well, :roll: we don't attend the same church. I go to church, but my money stays home.
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pek1 said:As for the scandals of the '80's...I worked at PTL during the summer of 1987 and have never, ever, in my life, seen such hatred. Unfortunately, Jim Bakker was the fall guy on this and was convicted because he was the man in charge...his people under him and other ministries wanted PTL to go bust...well, now, they have their desire. As for "me and my money..." well, :roll: we don't attend the same church. I go to church, but my money stays home.
I'd really love to hear some of yours stories about working at PTL. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Revolution. Its a church based out of Atlanta, ran by Jim Bakker's son, Jay Bakker. Some consider his teachings radical, but I find them inspiring and it gave me the kind of hope I was looking for when I felt completely abandoned by all churches. You can find a link to their website in my signature.
Sure would like to hear some of the stories myself too! Bet they are sort of like the stories that some MDA affliated folks can tell about the MDA and Jerry Lewis and the "poor wittle cwipples" Labor Day Telethon!
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A continued Blessing
I just wanted to say that we had 2 deaf visitors to our church this Sunday for Sunday School, which made the total deaf/hoh attending 6, and then one more deaf lady came for church making the total 7.
Praise the Lord, He is still working in our lives!
I just wanted to say that we had 2 deaf visitors to our church this Sunday for Sunday School, which made the total deaf/hoh attending 6, and then one more deaf lady came for church making the total 7.
Praise the Lord, He is still working in our lives!
Oh and Rose Immortal, I know there are wonderful good Christians out there, who don't judge. There ARE however, a lot of modren day Pharasees who display their devotion for all to see, and for whom the trappings and rules of the church, are more important then a personal loving relationship with God...
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babymakerdaddy said:
That's good, Trent, but let's not forget they are NOT numbers, as you have so clearly stated...each person has a soul, a personality, likes & dislikes and each is highly valued by God. It's not our job, Trent, to count them, it's our job to show them, to plant the seed and for God to do the harvest, which is what His job is, not ours. I still stand by what I said.
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cental34 said:
Cental34,
I hope Trent goes to the link, as he needs to see what the main page is...in case he doesn't...Trent, this opening website states in slanted letters, "JESUS IS THE SAVIOUR NOT CHRISTIANITY" (sic). I'm familiar with Jay Bakker, as he's been to hell and back. I don't like the modern church music, but, if one goes to Matthew 28 and read the Great Commission (Trent, read it, don't wait for the movie), Jesus tells to "Go..." It doesn't tell us how to do it, what to bring, et al, it just says to "Do It!" If people, Central34, are coming and finding Christ as their Saviour and not a dogma like 1st Baptist Rosemount and other churches of like do, then who are we to criticize God?
It saddens me, as it should anyone, that the Church likes to kill their own wounded and put them out of their misery. I left a "Christian" college earlier this year and could sue them for slander and libel, but I will let God deal with them.
Many, many people were hurt at PTL, especially when Jerry Falwell came. I believed everything that Jim Bakker said was true and still do. Evangelist Lowell Lundstrom was holding "Campmeeting" on the program at the Barn Auditorium one night and, as soon as the red light from the tv camera went off, he started up by saying, "I know there is a lot of anger here...let's talk." He started into a sermon and God just poured Himself out on the people. He was told, when he came onto Heritage USA grounds to, "be careful who you talk to, you may be talking to the enemy!" A partner told me the same thing outside that this is what she was told. I nearly fell over.
What's worse than that, the Church is still doing it to their own.My regret is not contacting Jim Bakker while he was in prison in Rochester, Minnesota, as I didn't know he could be contacted or if it was allowed. Pastor Johnson and other "men" from other churches could have gone to see him, to pray with him, but oh no, not them! :thumbd:
They have forgotten what the Bible says about love and visiting those that are imprisioned (Matt. 25:43).I have a CD at home recorded by Gary S. Paxton and on it, one of the songs he sings, which Tammy Faye has sung is, "I Wonder If God Cries?" I often wonder it, too. I used to listen to it a lot; sometimes I'll put it on. I did an oral presentation this past summer and played the song and I nearly lost it. I don't subscribe to meanness that 1st B preaches, but do see encouragement with what Jay is doing. God, we need more of that. I listen to Robert Schuller myself to help me get my sanity. People are so turned off by "Church People" that they see what they're doing long before they can or will hear what they're preaching.
Blessings to you, cental34.
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Why would you want to attend a church that you can't trust enough to support financially? If you can't trust them with your money, how can you trust them with the preaching?pek1 said:... As for "me and my money..." well, :roll: we don't attend the same church. I go to church, but my money stays home.
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I can't speak for every "Christian" group or activity. I can speak about my own experiences. I feel much more comfortable attending an activity with other Christians than I do with a worldly group. I know when I go to an activity with my friends from church that I won't hear swear words or dirty stories. I won't smell cigarette smoke or booze on someone's breath. I will hear encouragement, clean humor, and praise for God. I will see people wearing modest clothing, and treating each other with respect.deafdyke said:
Last Saturday, our church sponsored a clay pigeon shoot for couples. Hubby and I had a great time with our friends from church.
Two weeks ago, our church sponsored a father/son camp out. Hubby and one of our grandsons had a great time with the other guys. Our new neighbor (not a church member, but a Christian) and his son attended. He was a stranger to everyone but he felt very welcome and comfortable.
I don't idealize nor idolize institutions or individuals. Human beings will let us down. My church and Christian school have had some "bad apples" in the barrel, and we dealt with them. Some situations required church discipline, some required firings, some required legal processes. But the problems were taken care of, not ignored, not swept under the rug.
BTW, I don't love "christianity"--I love Christ and His people.
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pek1 said:Cental34,
I hope Trent goes to the link, as he needs to see what the main page is...in case he doesn't...Trent, this opening website states in slanted letters, "JESUS IS THE SAVIOUR NOT CHRISTIANITY" (sic). I'm familiar with Jay Bakker, as he's been to hell and back. I don't like the modern church music, but, if one goes to Matthew 28 and read the Great Commission (Trent, read it, don't wait for the movie), Jesus tells to "Go..." It doesn't tell us how to do it, what to bring, et al, it just says to "Do It!" If people, Central34, are coming and finding Christ as their Saviour and not a dogma like 1st Baptist Rosemount and other churches of like do, then who are we to criticize God?
It saddens me, as it should anyone, that the Church likes to kill their own wounded and put them out of their misery. I left a "Christian" college earlier this year and could sue them for slander and libel, but I will let God deal with them.
Many, many people were hurt at PTL, especially when Jerry Falwell came. I believed everything that Jim Bakker said was true and still do. Evangelist Lowell Lundstrom was holding "Campmeeting" on the program at the Barn Auditorium one night and, as soon as the red light from the tv camera went off, he started up by saying, "I know there is a lot of anger here...let's talk." He started into a sermon and God just poured Himself out on the people. He was told, when he came onto Heritage USA grounds to, "be careful who you talk to, you may be talking to the enemy!" A partner told me the same thing outside that this is what she was told. I nearly fell over.
My regret is not contacting Jim Bakker while he was in prison in Rochester, Minnesota, as I didn't know he could be contacted or if it was allowed. Pastor Johnson and other "men" from other churches could have gone to see him, to pray with him, but oh no, not them! :thumbd:
I have a CD at home recorded by Gary S. Paxton and on it, one of the songs he sings, which Tammy Faye has sung is, "I Wonder If God Cries?" I often wonder it, too. I used to listen to it a lot; sometimes I'll put it on. I did an oral presentation this past summer and played the song and I nearly lost it. I don't subscribe to meanness that 1st B preaches, but do see encouragement with what Jay is doing. God, we need more of that. I listen to Robert Schuller myself to help me get my sanity. People are so turned off by "Church People" that they see what they're doing long before they can or will hear what they're preaching.
Blessings to you, cental34.
I've had the pleasure of attending Revolution services twice, and both times I left feeling better about my faith than I ever did at the dozens and dozens of other churches I've been to. Jay's message makes more sense to me than any typical denominational preacher dressed in a white robe, or some designer suit. I've been downloading a lot of his sermons, burning them to CD, and listening to them in my car lately. I just listened to "Legalism is Sin" today, and "A New Kind of Christian" yesterday. If you haven't read his book, "Son of a Preacher Man," I'd highly reccommend it. It is by far my favorite book,
I try reserve judgments when it comes to churches. It is ludicrous to say all churches are legalistic and hyporcritical, but fact is, in my experience, a large number of them are. I'm planning on attending Bellevue Baptist Church (3rd largest church in the nation) this weekend. I'd be lying I was going with pure motives, but I am going as sort of an experiment. I'm not trying to provoke a reaction, but I want to see if things are really as bad as I think they are.
I'm not familiar with Robert Schuller. Could you show me where I could read some of his teachings?
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