Candidacy for CI

I agree with Hear Again, even deaf children who are in AVT, are ci users or hearing aid aids and who may use ASL/BSL should have lipreading skills.
I apparently "taught" myself to lipread from an very early age but I dont know if this is actually true. A lot of deaf friends who I know do not actually lipread but I find this bizarre, no offence to you sign users out there who do not lipread, even great if they can hear as well as sign but lipreading is a must have skill
 
Deafteen90 said:
I agree with Hear Again, even deaf children who are in AVT, are ci users or hearing aid aids and who may use ASL/BSL should have lipreading skills.
I apparently "taught" myself to lipread from an very early age but I dont know if this is actually true. A lot of deaf friends who I know do not actually lipread but I find this bizarre, no offence to you sign users out there who do not lipread, even great if they can hear as well as sign but lipreading is a must have skill
Click to expand...

Thank you, Deafteen. I'm glad someone agrees with me.

If truth be told, I envy Deaf and severely HoH people who can lipread. I've never been able to use that skill since I'm totally blind.
 
I wish you had the ability to lipread Hear Again!

When I was younger I used to think that everybody else was able to lipread but they cannot! In primary our teachers couldnt speak privately or sign in front of us because some of us were fantastic sign users and lipreaders so the only way the teachers could speak in private was talking without moving their mouth, it annoyed me when they spoke this way hehe

I think lipreading is a huge vital skill, even when Im working with children I understand some of the children more than the full time staff do because I lipread and can watch their lip movements and lip patterns and work out what they are trying to say, it can be frustrating when they dont make the correct lip movement but thats what children do and I ask for help in intrepreting what the children want to say, sometimes the staff and myself can not understand them then the last resort is just to nod and go oh wow!
 
Just to clarify, I am not against lipreading (I don't know what I'd do without lipreading!). I am just saying if the GOAL is to listen better in a more efficient way, focus on LISTENING. In fact, the opposite is true also. If you are trying to teach a hearing person to lipread, is it better to speak to him with voice or without?

The goal of listening better is different from the goal of understanding better.
 
I do not listen, I rely heavily on lipread and on some occasions will listen at college or at placement sometimes, I cannot break the habit of lipreading

I focus on the lips and i hear whatever i lipread
 
Deafteen90 said:
I do not listen, I rely heavily on lipread and on some occasions will listen at college or at placement sometimes, I cannot break the habit of lipreading

I focus on the lips and i hear whatever i lipread
Click to expand...

I support AVT (with no lipreading) more with CI users, especially during the adjustment period, in order to find out where they need to be adjusted and for them to get familiar with certain sounds. Not so much with HAs.
 
For what it is worth my 2 cents. I myself wear HAs and I’m a lip reader so I’m always getting whiplash during group conversations or swerving on the road because I have to look at the person in the passenger seat. Imagine carrying on a conversation at the dinner table while lip reading (ugh).

Currently I’m in the test phase of getting my CI on the left ear tomorrow I will be finishing this stage and then waiting for surgery. Once I get the CI I plan on not relying on the Lip reading as much because I need to learn to hear verbally not visually. If I can do this I will be able to hear at the table without looking at someone eating and I will be able to drive better since I will keep my eyes on the road and not always looking over to the passenger. I know the 3 guys in the Car pool would appreciate this new talent.

Hear Again I have to disagree with you on this one. I think anyone that is learning via AVT with a therapist should be able to hear without reading the lips or seeing facial muscles move once they know the sound with visual ques.
 
I disagree with AVT for small children because of risks to delaying language development.
 
Hear Again I have to disagree with you on this one. I think anyone that is learning via AVT with a therapist should be able to hear without reading the lips or seeing facial muscles move once they know the sound with visual ques.

Let's agree to disagree because I'm of the opinion that a deaf or severely HoH child should use every technique available to them whether they are in AVT or not.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I support AVT (with no lipreading) more with CI users, especially during the adjustment period, in order to find out where they need to be adjusted and for them to get familiar with certain sounds. Not so much with HAs.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately it doesn't happen in my case as i hoped... I rely on lipreading heavily.... i don't have much support as you have post CI... I want AVT but they cost so much here privately and not easily accessible for Adults and they don't provide much therapy for adult implantees on NHS. They only can give me advice but i live alone, don't have friends living close enough to give me some help on listening. I use TV for listening and reading subtitles at same time. I cannot tune in my radio since i don't know if they are the right tune.


For everyone I think Kids should have access to all sorts, avt, lipreading and signing after all without HA/CI's they need to lipread or sign or both.
 
For what it is worth my 2 cents. I myself wear HAs and I’m a lip reader so I’m always getting whiplash during group conversations or swerving on the road because I have to look at the person in the passenger seat. Imagine carrying on a conversation at the dinner table while lip reading (ugh).

At least you can still use lipreading to aid in communication. I'm not saying it's easy, but it can be done. Try using tactile sign which is physically demanding. Try using print on palm or a Braille/raised print alphabet card which are both slow and tedious.

I'm glad I have CIs so I don't need to resort to any of these communication techniques (unless I'm not wearing my implants).
 
Deafteen90 said:
I agree with Hear Again, even deaf children who are in AVT, are ci users or hearing aid aids and who may use ASL/BSL should have lipreading skills.
I apparently "taught" myself to lipread from an very early age but I dont know if this is actually true. A lot of deaf friends who I know do not actually lipread but I find this bizarre, no offence to you sign users out there who do not lipread, even great if they can hear as well as sign but lipreading is a must have skill
Click to expand...

We weren't talking about lipreading skills. I have excellent lipreading skills myself and know how important that is, so I'm with you on that.

However, AVT is about improving "listening" skills. Improving lipreading skills is another subject entirely. Once a child has developed good listening skills from AVT, combining that with their lipreading skills really helps in communication. We were not trying to say that a child shouldn't be able to lipread or use lipreading skills, but for the purposes of AVT training, it is about "listening". It's clear to me and a few others here that some are not understanding what AVT is about. It is being portrayed as a negative thing, and it is NOT. It only enhances communication skills when used in therapy properly. I'm deaf myself, I went through AVT myself and it helped my listening skills tremendously. And, I lipread very well on top of that. So now that I can combine the listening and lipreading skills, my communication skills are really effective. I would NOT be able to lipread as well as I do if I didn't have any listening skills on top of that. Being allowed to lipread in AVT therapy defeats the purpose of trying to learn listening skills entirely.
 
Deafteen90 said:
I wish you had the ability to lipread Hear Again!

When I was younger I used to think that everybody else was able to lipread but they cannot! In primary our teachers couldnt speak privately or sign in front of us because some of us were fantastic sign users and lipreaders so the only way the teachers could speak in private was talking without moving their mouth, it annoyed me when they spoke this way hehe

I think lipreading is a huge vital skill, even when Im working with children I understand some of the children more than the full time staff do because I lipread and can watch their lip movements and lip patterns and work out what they are trying to say, it can be frustrating when they dont make the correct lip movement but thats what children do and I ask for help in intrepreting what the children want to say, sometimes the staff and myself can not understand them then the last resort is just to nod and go oh wow!
Click to expand...

I do too, Deafteen! Lipreading would have made my life so much easier! If truth be told, I hate it when deaf people complain about lipreading. They ought to try relying on tactile sign to the point where their upper arms and shoulders ache or using print on palm and/or a Braille/raised print alphabet card where it takes FOREVER to spell out words and sentences.
 
There's two issues being discussed here:
1) Using AVT on deaf people (which I am not talking about)
2) Using lipreading for AVT (which I AM talking about)

If you're against using AVT for deaf people/children, fine, but the purpose of it is to listen better and I'm saying that lipreading interferes with listening better. That's all.

Overthepond,

I also live by myself and it's not helping with my AVT because I need to practice listening with someone on a daily basis. Also, I didn't start AVT until a few weeks ago, and I got activated in December. So I spent 3 months not really progressing, only aware of new sounds. But now I am definitely progressing (albeit slow, but still progressing). I also practice with my friends over google chat (using the voice feature) whenever I can. I can tell you exactly how I am practicing if you'd like?
 
Again, I reiterate, I think the idea of withholding lipreading in everyday situations is absurd. BUT in therapy, or rehab for a cochlear implant, I think it is prudent. If you are training yourself to HEAR rather than lipread, you need to focus on hearing.
It is not continued in the long term. It is strictly for training to hear. The whole point of getting an implant is to hear. Once you are able to understand with the CI, even in AVT, they drop the hand cue. But they continue to expect the child to be able to hear behind them, out of eye line, or from another room.
 
faire_jour said:
Again, I reiterate, I think the idea of withholding lipreading in everyday situations is absurd. BUT in therapy, or rehab for a cochlear implant, I think it is prudent. If you are training yourself to HEAR rather than lipread, you need to focus on hearing.
It is not continued in the long term. It is strictly for training to hear. The whole point of getting an implant is to hear. Once you are able to understand with the CI, even in AVT, they drop the hand cue. But they continue to expect the child to be able to hear behind them, out of eye line, or from another room.
Click to expand...

I agree. I find it too easy to lipread while I'm learning to hear. Since I already have the skills, it kind of takes over the fact that I need to listen. Lipreading DOES interfere when I'm trying to listen. Ironically, my lipreading skills has gotten worse within the last couple months because I'm hearing better.

I think one of the reasons why AVT is frown upon is the bad rap they get from many years ago. They used to be horrible/harsh/cruel for the child. I think AVT should be given on a case to case basis, not EVERY single deaf child. Not all will benefit from it. I remember at Oral schools the teacher would slap the child's hand from signing...that's depriving them away from communicating in their own language. I wonder if that's still the same today. I hate *just* oral schools.

It's like when they used to do the electroshock therapy for mental ill patients. Nowadays, they don't do that any more...they focus on case to case basis. There *are* some rare cases where electroshock therapy will work, but it's not as cruel/harsh as it used to be years ago.
 
faire_jour,

You're looking only at dB and not Hz. You will receive different perception levels dependent upon the combination of dB and Hz. More often than not, neither of them have anything to do with discrimination ability.
 
Hear Again said:
faire_jour,

You're looking only at dB and not Hz. You will receive different perception levels dependent upon the combination of dB and Hz. More often than not, neither of them have anything to do with discrimination ability.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you are referencing, can you be more specific?
 
faire_jour said:
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you are referencing, can you be more specific?
Click to expand...

I no longer remember what thread it was in, but I was referring to your comment about speech being barely audible at 40-50 dB and my response indicating that even though I had moderately-severe hearing loss, I could still understand some speech unaided in a quiet environment -- especially if the speaker was male.

I added the comment, "You're looking only at dB and not Hz. You will receive different perception levels dependent upon the combination of dB and Hz. More often than not, neither of them have anything to do with discrimination ability" to emphasize the fact that dB and Hz aren't all inclusive in determining how well someone understands speech.
 
Back
Top