Can the President Order Your Death Wtihout Due Process?

[VacationGuy234]

what you speaks of is only for enemy combatants, not American citizen.

Why can't an American Citizen be an enemy combatant? Do you think you would not be hanged for treason?

The question isn't due process because ultimately national security would trump it.

 

[Jiro]

Why can't an American Citizen be an enemy combatant?

they can be. only President can do that. and we don't kill American citizen without due process.

Do you think you would not be hanged for treason?

treason is already punishable by death.

The question isn't due process because ultimately national security would trump it.

yes it is. this article is precisely about suspending due process and letting President to act as judge, jury, and executioner. and no national security can ever trump it. that's why it's illegal.

you're not gonna find any single thing... not even a shred of it anywhere in Constitution, laws, etc. that would allow the President to kill an American citizen without due process.

 

[Grayma]

Questions:

1. Do American citizens have US Constitutional rights when they are in foreign countries?

2. If the answer is yes, who enforces those rights when they are overseas?

They have a certain expectation that their US Constitutional rights won't be violated by their own government.

Or at least, they ought to have that expectation. Until recently, I think they did.

 

[Grayma]

I believe the president should be able to order assassinations of individuals or groups of individuals that mean harm to U.S. citizens.

I disagree very strongly. No person should have that power, and I am quite certain the Constitution does not allow this kind of power over the lives of American citizens. The dangers of allowing personal bias to influence his judgment are just too high. So are the dangers of his own ego getting out of control, for any person given this sort of unchecked power of life or death over another human being.

Must be wonderfully blissful to blame everything on white people.

I agree with you there. It's a comfortable substitution for reasoned discourse.

 

[Reba]

if it's that simple and "*shrug* I see nothing wrong since it happened oversea", then I am truly fearful for America. Good luck finding any country that would even agree to allow this shameless act to happen in their country.

I never said there was "nothing wrong since it happened overseas."

 

[Reba]

what you speaks of is only for enemy combatants, not American citizen.

American citizens can become enemy combatants. American citizens have joined foreign military forces, and they've also become foreign spies all through our history. It's nothing new.

 

[Jiro]

I never said there was "nothing wrong since it happened overseas."

of course not. you've said no such thing.

but I can read between lines. if I'm wrong, forgive me.

 

[Jiro]

American citizens can become enemy combatants. American citizens have joined foreign military forces, and they've also become foreign spies all through our history. It's nothing new.

yes. nothing new. and the result is that they were arrested, brought to trial, and were sentenced to prison or death penalty.

but there's a problem with the President killing an American citizen without due process. everything about it is just wrong. I can guarantee you that it would be a colossal mistake to allow it. I cannot even fathom how much of fallout it would cause.

Valerie Plame leak and wikileaks were bad enough. the news of President killing an American citizen without due process is enough to make those 2 incidents combined very trivial.

 

[Steinhauer]

Charles Whitman wasn't brought to trial.

Houston McCoy was the judge, jury and executioner ?

 

[Reba]

They have a certain expectation that their US Constitutional rights won't be violated by their own government.

Or at least, they ought to have that expectation. Until recently, I think they did.

That's my question. Do Americans have Constitutional rights when they're in foreign countries?

When Americans join enemy forces overseas, do they really have expectations that they're protected by the US Constitution?

I'm not saying that means the President should be issuing assassination orders.

 

[Jiro]

Charles Whitman wasn't brought to trial.

Houston McCoy was the judge, jury and executioner ?

and any armed homeowner is a judge, jury, and executioner for killing an intruder.

 

[Jiro]

That's my question. Do Americans have Constitutional rights when they're in foreign countries?

When Americans join enemy forces overseas, do they really have expectations that they're protected by the US Constitution?

I'm not saying that means the President should be issuing assassination orders.

Yes. There is an expectation that any American citizen shouldn't be assassinated by the President.

 

[Reba]

of course not. you've said no such thing.

but I can read between lines. if I'm wrong, forgive me.

You're wrong. There was nothing to read between the lines. I said it plainly. I said that the Constitution doesn't protect Americans overseas. I also said the President is limited by the Constitution as to what he's allowed to do.

Just because Americans aren't protected by the Constitution overseas doesn't mean our President has a free hand to do whatever he wants. He's still constrained by the Constitution.

He's not supposed to assassinate people but it's not because of any Constitutional rights that the Americans have overseas (they don't have any). It's because of the limitations on the President.

Americans overseas are under the laws of that country, not our country.

 

[Reba]

Yes. There is an expectation that any American citizen shouldn't be assassinated by the President.

Just Americans, or should no one be assassinated by the President?

 

[Jiro]

You're wrong. There was nothing to read between the lines. I said it plainly. I said that the Constitution doesn't protect Americans overseas. I also said the President is limited by the Constitution as to what he's allowed to do.

Just because Americans aren't protected by the Constitution overseas doesn't mean our President has a free hand to do whatever he wants. He's still constrained by the Constitution.

He's not supposed to assassinate people but it's not because of any Constitutional rights that the Americans have overseas (they don't have any). It's because of the limitations on the President.

Americans overseas are under the laws of that country, not our country.

that is precisely what I'm saying. My focus is on President, not American citizen. To allow President to do so...

 

[Jiro]

Just Americans, or should no one be assassinated by the President?

neither. President Ford was very clear about this.

 

[Reba]

neither. President Ford was very clear about this.

That's why I was wondering why the emphasis on the American citizen as target?

 

[Jiro]

That's why I was wondering why the emphasis on the American citizen as target?

to me - it's non-issue. I also wonder why even entertain a thought of this.

 

[VacationGuy234]

they can be. only President can do that. and we don't kill American citizen without due process.


treason is already punishable by death.


yes it is. this article is precisely about suspending due process and letting President to act as judge, jury, and executioner. and no national security can ever trump it. that's why it's illegal.

you're not gonna find any single thing... not even a shred of it anywhere in Constitution, laws, etc. that would allow the President to kill an American citizen without due process.

Jiro, you need to read up on separation of powers. The powers the pesident has are a lot broader than that of due process. The article is smoke screen becuase it's speach prepared for an audience. Yes, due process is broken legally.

 

[Jiro]

Jiro, you need to read up on separation of powers. The powers the pesident has are a lot broader than that of due process. The article is smoke screen becuase it's speach prepared for an audience. Yes, due process is broken legally.

what is this "separation of powers" you speak of? source please?

ah yes.... there's no such thing! it doesn't exist except in Jack Bauer's 24 tv-series.