Can Straights and Gays Be REAL Friends?

Originally posted by SilenceGold

I failed to see where the respect importancy came in to make those things on the list to be more accepted in the present society. I really think it's just one word, fear, that made it harder to be acceptable for all of those things on the list.
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The respect comes comes from accepting that you don't understand homosexuality and that is it is different and let the people be. The respect comes from acknowledging that you have no right whatsoever to oppress, put down, or categorise people accorinding to religious, political, and cultural beliefs. The respect comes from acknowledging that people have the right to re-interpret cultural customs such as that legalised form of slavery, called marriage. The respect comes from accepting that marriage between a man and woman is not sancrosat, it is not the pinnacle of all relationships, and that all other forms of relationship are equally valid.

The Respect comes from letting it be!
 
WOW thats an intresting statement u made brutha, i didn t think of it that way, thats in itself a good bold statement :) :thumb:
 
deafbrutha said:
I don't think society is becoming more accepting...... if it was, we would see more images of same sex couples in advertising, for example, we would be studying the history of minorites such as Deaf and Gays/ Lesbians in mainstream schools. If that happened, then you could say we are becoming more accepting. If the chruch voted in the affirmative to ordain gay/ Lesbian priests, then that would be accepting. Because there is this big massive divide on the issue, shows that society has still got a long way to go. Then George Bush, romps in and says Mariage is meant for thsoe of the opposite sex - my arse it is - proves that we are not advancing. Our Prime Ministe rin Australia saying marriage is all about procreation [you know fucking with the express purpose of squeezing out brats] manages not only to insult Gays and Lesbians but also Heterosexual couples who cannot have children for one reason or another. Another thing, in this forum where heterosexuals say they accept their gay/ lesbian friends then they qualify it by saying...'As long as they don't hit on me, etc...." proves we have a long way to go.

Yes, it is easier today than it was 20 years ago. But......
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If we were arguing about teenagers being pregnant at early age in 1930s....you would be saying the same thing "I don't think that teenager pregnant would be accepting in this society."

I'll just say to wait for couples of more years and it might be completed on the change. Today, there's still few people against the ideas of teenager pregnancy and all the other things I put on this list earlier in this thread.

The society is still changing.
 
deafbrutha said:
The respect comes comes from accepting that you don't understand homosexuality and that is it is different and let the people be. The respect comes from acknowledging that you have no right whatsoever to oppress, put down, or categorise people accorinding to religious, political, and cultural beliefs. The respect comes from acknowledging that people have the right to re-interpret cultural customs such as that legalised form of slavery, called marriage. The respect comes from accepting that marriage between a man and woman is not sancrosat, it is not the pinnacle of all relationships, and that all other forms of relationship are equally valid.

The Respect comes from letting it be!
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I'm not going to argue with you about what respect is. It won't happen as long as there's fear around.

With respect, you gotta to have some issues of trust to be resolved to be accepting others the way they are.

You cannot just sit around and expect things to roll by to be the way you want it to be. You gotta to attack the fear in the people by educating them about homosexuality. I know that there's many people, who are against homosexuality, that has this fear of exinction of human. That's some bad misinformed theory. All you are raging about is all the bad things...instead of going and doing something about it.

An example....in 1700s and 1800s.....divorces were more feared by women because they would be left without a home. Don't forget that women didn't have the rights to own properties. They had to put up with abusing husbands and there were times when they got killed so the husband would remarry. Those divorces were awful to bear with and were considered not worth it.

Today, divorces can be great things to happen.

Homosexuality got the same context too.
 
SilenceGold said:
If we were arguing about teenagers being pregnant at early age in 1930s....you would be saying the same thing "I don't think that teenager pregnant would be accepting in this society."

I'll just say to wait for couples of more years and it might be completed on the change. Today, there's still few people against the ideas of teenager pregnancy and all the other things I put on this list earlier in this thread.

The society is still changing.
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I agree about the society is constantly always changing -- so its predictablity won't be really predictable. You know? Things are always changing either for the best or for the worst.
 
SilenceGold said:
I'm not going to argue with you about what respect is. It won't happen as long as there's fear around.
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I understand what you are saying, and in some ways you are right, but it still begs the question, is it really fear or power that drives oppression? I mean the Catholic Chruch, what does it fear. It fears nothing more than losing power, so it concocts all this drivel and actively participates in oppressing people in order to maintain its power and influence. The pope issue a papal edict condemning homosexual "acts" and "relationships" as immoral and depraved! The catholic church can go "fuck" itself.

Knowing a bit about religions history, is why I have a hard time respecting the church and religious beliefs at all.

Politicians, using FEAR, e.g. terrorism, to keep control and influence. Are men really fearful of women or losing their power over women, are heterosexuals really afraid of homosexuals or are the afraid of having their illusions or delusions of how the world is shattered? Raising that hoary old argument that marriage is about the continuation of the speices [that don't deserve to be continuated]

I stand by my statement, because in all their fear, it does not justify oppression in all its forms. Maybe I take a harder line.. cos I don't accept fear as a justificatioin for oppression at any level, it might explain some of it, but it never justifies.

So for all its fear, society is still accountable for its actions.
 
That's abusing the fear in other people to maintain control over them.

For example...if Lisa wanted to leave me...I could have said something like..

"You won't be able to make it on your own....you won't be able to finish college....you don't have the money to do it....you'll still have tough time finding a job let alone paying for your apartment if you moved out of here."

That's making her feeling uneasy with fear...and in other ways, I'm mentally abusing her to a point where I can continue to maintain control over her. I think she's smart enough to even know that she can stop me mental abusing....but it's just an example I'm giving you..so don't take me wrong if you think that's what I do with her...I don't.
 
SilenceGold said:
That's abusing the fear in other people to maintain control over them.

For example...if Lisa wanted to leave me...I could have said something like..

"You won't be able to make it on your own....you won't be able to finish college....you don't have the money to do it....you'll still have tough time finding a job let alone paying for your apartment if you moved out of here."

That's making her feeling uneasy with fear...and in other ways, I'm mentally abusing her to a point where I can continue to maintain control over her. I think she's smart enough to even know that she can stop me mental abusing....but it's just an example I'm giving you..so don't take me wrong if you think that's what I do with her...I don't.
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I know what you are getting at, and I'm not taking it the wrong way..and I agree with you. I just don't think it is as simple as saying fear is responsible for oppression or discrimination.....there are many situations such as slavery - economic or otherwise - which are a direct result of abuse of power...
 
S/G Work Together? YES!

Yes we all can work together, definitely! I've got a few straight friends who don't treat me differently.

I'm Gay and proud of it. And I'm proud of my friends and how they treat me. I couldn't ask for better.

However I do believe that not everybody S/G can get along. There's always rifts in the world.

:D
 
LeviathanC said:
The simple answer is NO! End of discussion.
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There's is no simple awnser except your way of thinking
 
I have found a lot of humor and wisdom in some posts here, some rampant fear-based statements in some posts. Oh geez, what a good ongoing debate here!

Can a deaf person have a real friendship with a hearing person?

The answer for me is YES - I have a few best friends who are gay. It just takes willingness to have a real friendship with anyone. Where there is no willingness, there is fear and manipulation (response to a fear of losing control?) - in my experience and opinion. Fear only fear itself, one of the U.S. Presidents once said. Teddy Roosevelt?

I think everyone's objective is pretty much to be HAPPY by being true to ourselves. I support that wholeheartedly!

It's great of Alex to make forums like these - about time! I hope one day he will be able to see the differences he is making with his AD forum if he hasn't already. :thumb:

:::Off the soapbox now:::
:::Steps back on it again:::

Brutha, the Episcopal Church in U.S. now have a bishop who is openly gay. Many who have opposed him supports him as a bishop now. The times are changing! At least, to me. One more step in the positive direction, anyhow.
http://gc2003.episcopalchurch.org/gcdaily/index_18660_ENG_HTML.htm?menu=undefined

It starts with us. Just by being true to ourselves, I believe we also become teachers to others on being true to themselves.

:::Off the soapbox now:::

:beer:
 
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