Can someone who is severely deaf talk normally?

[SxyPorkie]

Spoken languages and signed languages each have their benefits. I think the problem that DD has, as well as others, with spoken language is NOT that a deaf child can speak, that is an AMAZING tool for a deaf person to have. The problem is not in a ACQUIRING the ability to speak, but rather an overall lack of language COMPREHENSION that comes with it.
When parents focus only on a child's ability to speak, they don't realize how much they sacrifice in comprehension.
I have deaf friends who don't speak, deaf friends who do, and hoh friends that grew up oral and are now learned/have learned sign. The ones that seem to have the most trouble in life are my hoh friends who speak well! Yes, they can communicate with the hearing world, and yes, that is nice, BUT their common knowledge is WAY below average.
When a deaf/hoh child has to focus SO much on learning to speak, and on being able to physically understand the words that are being said, understanding their meaning becomes secondary. Oral Deaf/hoh people learn to fake it very well, but if you get into a real conversation with them, signed or spoken, you will see how much they have missed.

Tp this point.. I agree with you... I was HOH, but my parents were deaf and i attended to the state deaf school...I can speak anytime i want to... and i am very fluently with ASL.. it is my first langauge... MOst of HOH can speak very well but not with understand in the life.... not much common sense.. still i am their friends... i help them...

Thanks!!
SxyPorkie

 

[Etoile]

CE/CS makes the sounds of words visible and much more. It is not an alerting system.

I think what jillio meant is that CS tells the deaf person "this person is saying the letter T" rather than just "this person is making a sound." If you don't know that the T is made with the tongue on the roof of the mouth, you can't pronounce it accurately. A speech therapist still has to explain how to make the sounds.

 

[Calvin]

Born deaf, using both oral and sign mostly SEE til I learned ASL when I entered college. (was mainstreamed all my life)

 

[Passivist]

My partner was born deaf and learnt to speak as well, albeit it is monotone, it was understandible, her mother spent considerable effort getting her to oralise and that gave her a voice you could understand, however when she finally entered a state deaf school, and acquired sign language she stopped talking altogther much to the dissapointment of her parent, and she became very distant from her mother as a result the further and further she went with sign, the less and less she made effort to speak until she is at her point now where she won't use it at all.

I felt sadness at this because her child (Our son), desperately wanted to communicate better with her and she would only sign, even to him, which was very hard for him. The ability WAS there, the sign drove it out. She has never been asked to stop signing, but has been asked to try using what voice she had for her son's sake, to no avail. I taught the boy sign, and the distance has narrowed a bit, but the gulf between him and his mum is obvious. Do deaf realise you think, how such intransigence affects family ? distancing yourself from your mother and your own child seems a damn high price for sign use. It's all one-way traffic. I'm sad more than mad about it.

 

[signer16]

My partner was born deaf and learnt to speak as well, albeit it is monotone, it was understandible,

When deaf people learn how to speak, IF they can, -which comes from a mix of luck and hours and hours of speech therapy- it is usually monotone.

her mother spent considerable effort getting her to oralise and that gave her a voice you could understand,

Again, it comes back to language ACQUISTION over COMPREHENSION. Okay, yes, her mom probably spent a long time getting her to learn how to speak, but realize, that was your partner's CHILDHOOD. For any child, for any reason, it is not fun to be stuck in a small room doing monotonous tasks and learning to do something you never really can do perfectly. But sounds like she learned because, like all children, she wanted to communicate with her parents. Did her mom EVER try to communicate with her by learning sign?

however when she finally entered a state deaf school, and acquired sign language she stopped talking altogther much to the dissapointment of her parent, and she became very distant from her mother as a result the further and further she went with sign, the less and less she made effort to speak until she is at her point now where she won't use it at all.

I am sure it dissappointed her that her daughter stopped speaking, though it probably came from finding a language that she could fully understand and fully use to express herself. If she never speaks, do you know how good her speech is? One reason she may have stopped speaking could be because she doesn't feel understood using her voice. I have never met a deaf person that doesn't speak AT ALL, consciously or unconsciously, but many people are uncomfortable because of the attitudes they have gotten from hearing people when they use their voice.
I doubt the distance came between her and her mom simply because her daughter learned sign, though again, it may have been because her mother didn't. When a deaf person who grows up in the hearing world, struggling to communicate, "finds" the deaf world, and finds a comfortable way to communicate for the first time in their life, they usually totally embrace it, (naturally). Also, many people then go back to the hearing world, including the one with their families, and realize how much they miss. If their famileis aren't willing to learn to communicate, there is often distance there.

I felt sadness at this because her child (Our son), desperately wanted to communicate better with her and she would only sign, even to him, which was very hard for him. The ability WAS there, the sign drove it out.

Um...okay, first of all, didn't she sign with him as a baby? He should have picked it up naturally and the two of them should be able to communicate fine. The only reason that I can think of that they couldn't communicate is if someone else taught him signing was bad, or if they didn't live together when he was young.

She has never been asked to stop signing, but has been asked to try using what voice she had for her son's sake, to no avail. I taught the boy sign, and the distance has narrowed a bit, but the gulf between him and his mum is obvious.

Why didn't she teach him sign, or rather just use it with him naturally? If there is a gulf there, I don't think it's because she signs, I think there are other issues. It is interesting that she never voices with her child, most deaf parents I know do voice with their children-- when no one else is around. Maybe she is still mad at her mom and is taking it out on her by doing the polar opposite on her child?

Do deaf realise you think, how such intransigence affects family ? distancing yourself from your mother and your own child seems a damn high price for sign use. It's all one-way traffic. I'm sad more than mad about it.

OKAY...Maybe your situation is different than most but...okay...never using her voice, one that she can't hear, making her feel extremely vulnerable, and one that may not actually be comprehensible by many people is understandable. But even if she spoke, comprehension of speech is unrelated, and your partner would still need a way to understand her mother. Again, has her mother learned sign at all?
You say it's all one-way traffic...um, okay, almost ALL deaf children will work VERY HARD to learn to speak, many times trying to learn to communicate with their parents. Yet their parents RARELY will try to learn to communicate with their children. 70% of hearing parents of deaf children learn NO sign, and 20% only learn basic signs. This means 90% of parents are unwilling to learn to communicate with their children. They constantly tell them "never mind," ignore them, and simply can't tell them the basic things that parents should be teaching their children. Talk about a one way street, especially when this is their CHILD.

Most deaf people I know who DO have parents who sign are very willing to speak with them. Many deaf people whose parents don't sign STILL speak with their parents and try to communicate with them the rest of their life. But I don't think it's unreasonable that if a parent won't speak the language of the child, the child won't speak the language of the parent.
I am sorry for your family situation, hope everything does work out. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

[deafdyke]

One reason she may have stopped speaking could be because she doesn't feel understood using her voice. I have never met a deaf person that doesn't speak AT ALL, consciously or unconsciously, but many people are uncomfortable because of the attitudes they have gotten from hearing people when they use their voice.

Exactly.....my speech is decent, but it's never ever gonna be as understandable as a hearing person's speech. There's also the fact that a lot of hearies think that we are MR b/c of the quality of our voices!!!!!! Trust me Passcifst, one major reason why a lot of us are anti-oral only is b/c oral-only is extremely boring. It's esentially therapy 24/7.....I doubt you've ever been yelled at b/c you can't modulate your voice, I doubt you've ever had to go through repeating something you said endlessly.

 

[loml]

signer16

I am sure it dissappointed her that her daughter stopped speaking, though it probably came from finding a language that she could fully understand and fully use to express herself.

For this a person should stop communicating with their mother? Very sad.

Passivist

I felt sadness at this because her child (Our son), desperately wanted to communicate better with her and she would only sign, even to him, which was very hard for him. The ability WAS there, the sign drove it out.

How very complicated......

 

[Etoile]

When deaf people learn how to speak, IF they can, -which comes from a mix of luck and hours and hours of speech therapy- it is usually monotone.

I have a client I work with a couple of times a year who is almost entirely oral. She is profoundly deaf in her left ear and severely deaf in her right ear, both since birth. She speaks just like someone who has been hearing from birth. I don't know if she has ever worn hearing aids but her voice is incredibly clear. When people find out she is deaf, they invariably tell her "wow, your voice sounds so great!" She always responds "thank you, my speech therapist and my mother would be so happy to hear that."

I have never met a deaf person that doesn't speak AT ALL, consciously or unconsciously, but many people are uncomfortable because of the attitudes they have gotten from hearing people when they use their voice.

I have a client who I have never heard make a sound with his voice. Ever. In fact the first time I heard him cough, I'd been working with him for more than a year, and I was totally stunned just to hear the cough! I've never met another deaf person who was as silent as this guy. I'm not sure what his background is - whether he was born deaf, how he was raised, etc. - but he never makes a peep, ever. Not even laughing (though many deaf people are self-conscious about their laughs, too). He's just totally and completely quiet.

 

[ayala920]

I have a client who I have never heard make a sound with his voice. Ever. In fact the first time I heard him cough, I'd been working with him for more than a year, and I was totally stunned just to hear the cough! I've never met another deaf person who was as silent as this guy. I'm not sure what his background is - whether he was born deaf, how he was raised, etc. - but he never makes a peep, ever. Not even laughing (though many deaf people are self-conscious about their laughs, too). He's just totally and completely quiet.

Makes me wonder if he's always that quiet, especially with family and whatnot. Hmmm...

I've had friends who were pretty much silent, except in certain situations. I have one friend who I hadn't seen in a couple of years who I knew didn't speak, and make it pretty clear that he wasn't comfortable with it, and suddenly there he was voicing the word "buffet" during a conversation about Jimmy Buffet ('t' is pronounced) and a food buffet (buf-fay). Through me off quiet a bit.

 

[Etoile]

I used to have a deaf client who was quite good with spoken English, but he mispronounced a few words here and there too. He usually wanted to be corrected about such things...made me wish he knew Cued Speech so it would be easier to tell him the correct pronunciation!

 

[Passivist]

When deaf people learn how to speak, IF they can, -which comes from a mix of luck and hours and hours of speech therapy- it is usually monotone.


Again, it comes back to language ACQUISTION over COMPREHENSION. Okay, yes, her mom probably spent a long time getting her to learn how to speak, but realize, that was your partner's CHILDHOOD. For any child, for any reason, it is not fun to be stuck in a small room doing monotonous tasks and learning to do something you never really can do perfectly. But sounds like she learned because, like all children, she wanted to communicate with her parents. Did her mom EVER try to communicate with her by learning sign?


I am sure it dissappointed her that her daughter stopped speaking, though it probably came from finding a language that she could fully understand and fully use to express herself. If she never speaks, do you know how good her speech is? One reason she may have stopped speaking could be because she doesn't feel understood using her voice. I have never met a deaf person that doesn't speak AT ALL, consciously or unconsciously, but many people are uncomfortable because of the attitudes they have gotten from hearing people when they use their voice.
I doubt the distance came between her and her mom simply because her daughter learned sign, though again, it may have been because her mother didn't. When a deaf person who grows up in the hearing world, struggling to communicate, "finds" the deaf world, and finds a comfortable way to communicate for the first time in their life, they usually totally embrace it, (naturally). Also, many people then go back to the hearing world, including the one with their families, and realize how much they miss. If their famileis aren't willing to learn to communicate, there is often distance there.

Um...okay, first of all, didn't she sign with him as a baby? He should have picked it up naturally and the two of them should be able to communicate fine. The only reason that I can think of that they couldn't communicate is if someone else taught him signing was bad, or if they didn't live together when he was young.

Why didn't she teach him sign, or rather just use it with him naturally? If there is a gulf there, I don't think it's because she signs, I think there are other issues. It is interesting that she never voices with her child, most deaf parents I know do voice with their children-- when no one else is around. Maybe she is still mad at her mom and is taking it out on her by doing the polar opposite on her child?


OKAY...Maybe your situation is different than most but...okay...never using her voice, one that she can't hear, making her feel extremely vulnerable, and one that may not actually be comprehensible by many people is understandable. But even if she spoke, comprehension of speech is unrelated, and your partner would still need a way to understand her mother. Again, has her mother learned sign at all?
You say it's all one-way traffic...um, okay, almost ALL deaf children will work VERY HARD to learn to speak, many times trying to learn to communicate with their parents. Yet their parents RARELY will try to learn to communicate with their children. 70% of hearing parents of deaf children learn NO sign, and 20% only learn basic signs. This means 90% of parents are unwilling to learn to communicate with their children. They constantly tell them "never mind," ignore them, and simply can't tell them the basic things that parents should be teaching their children. Talk about a one way street, especially when this is their CHILD.

Most deaf people I know who DO have parents who sign are very willing to speak with them. Many deaf people whose parents don't sign STILL speak with their parents and try to communicate with them the rest of their life. But I don't think it's unreasonable that if a parent won't speak the language of the child, the child won't speak the language of the parent.
I am sorry for your family situation, hope everything does work out. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

There does seem a view non-using all the skills you have acquired is OK, obviously I don't agree with this. Regardless of parental usage, they have HEARING and SPEAKING children, and the child can form a view deaf people do not want to communicate with them. To sit back and sign until the child has got the gist of it, and not use every available tool you have seems not going that extra mile. Do deaf you think treat hearing children as 'them' too ? on a subconcious level ?

 

[rockdrummer]

Hi ,I am in school and talking with my friends and they say that a deaf person cant talk normally,but I say they can if they became deaf when adult. Am I right or are my friends right ? Thankyou!!!!

I met a profoundly deaf biker on the last Rolling Thunder run I went on. I was amazed at how well he was able to read lips and speak. I couldn't believe it when he said he was profoundly deaf. It's inspiring.

 

[signer16]

There does seem a view non-using all the skills you have acquired is OK, obviously I don't agree with this. Regardless of parental usage, they have HEARING and SPEAKING children, and the child can form a view deaf people do not want to communicate with them. To sit back and sign until the child has got the gist of it, and not use every available tool you have seems not going that extra mile. Do deaf you think treat hearing children as 'them' too ? on a subconcious level ?

You're kind of vague here, but I am assuming that you are saying deaf people should speak with their hearing and speaking children. You completely ignored any comments I made about her mother or speech problems and her reasons for not speaking, but okay, I'll address what you've said here.
You said "To sit back and sign until the child has got the gist of it." HEARING and DEAF children can acquire sign language skills NATURALLY. It isn't harder for hearing children to sign than deaf, as long as they've been signed to/with since infancy. There shouldn't be a big issue with hearing children being able to communicate with their deaf parent(s), as long as their parents sign with them, and they aren't told that sign language is bad or not okay.
A question for you, if your partner spoke with her son, and was completely incomprehensible, would that change everything? Even if her son didn't understand a word she said? I think that could actually be part of her fear.
Lastly, as for deaf people treating their hearing children as "them"...I'm not sure, I but I am assuming you mean "them" as the greater hearing world. My answer would be, some do, and some don't, but none should. I don't argue with a deaf person's right to sign or speak, or having whatever relationship they feel is right with their family, but treating their innocent hearing child as part of the hearing world in a negative way, I don't agree with. Any child, hearing or deaf, will first learn prejudice from their parents. Even without language and communication, it is often clear to see what parents think about different types of people. A hearing or deaf child can learn that deaf people can be equal to hearing, black equal to white, etc. Treating a hearing child badly for being hearing is absolutely wrong. Choosing as a deaf person, whose speech may be unclear, odd, and incomprehensible to a hearing ear, to not speak is an individual choice- it's not showing any dislike toward the child, it isn't personal.

 

[signer16]

Makes me wonder if he's always that quiet, especially with family and whatnot. Hmmm...

I've had friends who were pretty much silent, except in certain situations. I have one friend who I hadn't seen in a couple of years who I knew didn't speak, and make it pretty clear that he wasn't comfortable with it, and suddenly there he was voicing the word "buffet" during a conversation about Jimmy Buffet ('t' is pronounced) and a food buffet (buf-fay). Through me off quiet a bit.

I have a LOT of friends like that. They make it very clear that they never speak, or often, just when they're with their parents. But, eventually, a word or a phrase, sometimes even a sentence, will slip out. From what I've seen, a lot of times when a deaf person is shocked, thinks something is very funny, and/or is totally relaxed, they voice. One of my friends tends to voice ONE word with every hearing, non-signing person she is with, and it's totally unconscious. When we are together, she is totally voice off, though when she laughs or something, she usually "voices." But when we are around hearing people, she tends to voice one word with them, almost like her way of showing she is willing to communicate, and especially if she is using a terp, showing it is HER talking, not the terp.
We've had lengthy discussions on voicing, and deaf people voicing, etc...she had NO idea she did this.

I have a client who I have never heard make a sound with his voice. Ever. In fact the first time I heard him cough, I'd been working with him for more than a year, and I was totally stunned just to hear the cough! I've never met another deaf person who was as silent as this guy. I'm not sure what his background is - whether he was born deaf, how he was raised, etc. - but he never makes a peep, ever. Not even laughing (though many deaf people are self-conscious about their laughs, too). He's just totally and completely quiet.

That has happened to me with some professors and a few other deaf people. For a year or more they will make nearly no noise, but yes-- usually a cough, or speaking accidentally when they take a deep breath. This has happened usually in intimate situations-- one-on-one meeting, or in close distance in a classroom. The quietest deaf people I have met are often ex-oral training deafies (I don't mean they ever spoke well, just that they had lots of speech therapy), maybe because they spent so much time learning what made noise and what didn't.

 

[loml]

Passivist

My partner was born deaf and learnt to speak as well, albeit it is monotone, it was understandible

Passivist

however when she finally entered a state deaf school, and acquired sign language she stopped talking altogther

Passivist

There does seem a view non-using all the skills you have acquired is OK, obviously I don't agree with this

Passivist, you paint a tragic picture here. Does your son question why this has happened? I am curious as to what happened at the deaf school, for a mother to take such a rigid stance in communicating with family.

 

[loml]

signer16

The quietest deaf people I have met are often ex-oral training deafies (I don't mean they ever spoke well, just that they had lots of speech therapy),

I find this an odd statement. If they are quiet, how are you aware of their speech?

I would not be surprised to learn, the powers that be for ASL, have shamed them into not voicing.

 

[signer16]

I find this an odd statement. If they are quiet, how are you aware of their speech?

I would not be surprised to learn, the powers that be for ASL, have shamed them into not voicing.

I'm not saying that they did or didn't have good speech before, but I've noticed that the ABSOLUTE quietest people I have met that don't make noise/voice are people who told me they grew up oral. I also know tons of oral deaf people that voice all the time, whether or not they sign. --I think what happens with deaf people at a school for the deaf is, whether or not they learn to speak, they are not shamed into not ever using their voices by the hearing world, and most of them do make some noise.
It is possible that the "powers that be for ASL" have shamed them into not voicing, but I see it much more among hearing people than deaf. Maybe I am just part of a younger generation, but most deaf people I meet don't care if other deaf people are voicing, as long as they are signing as well, but many hearing people will make fun of a deaf person's speech.

 

[loml]

signer16,

First you say this........

I think what happens with deaf people at a school for the deaf is, whether or not they learn to speak, they are not shamed into not ever using their voices by the hearing world, and most of them do make some noise.

Then this........

Maybe I am just part of a younger generation, but most deaf people I meet don't care if other deaf people are voicing, as long as they are signing as well, but many hearing people will make fun of a deaf person's speech

So.... not sure of just what you are saying....

Also, if you are talking and signing at the same time, you can bet your bottom dollar it is not ASL.

 

[kayla123]

I agree with using both oral and sign methods. The one thing you have to remember is technology has gotten a lot better since 10 or 20 years ago. Even for the profoundly deaf, depending on the device they choose and how early they start therapy makes a big difference in not only speech but also understanding speech. I see here in a lot of posts where people who wore HAs for so long and decided to get an CI later can hear a lot more than they did with their HAs. So when starting at a young age and with proper therapy a child will do much better these days. Not all have monotone speech, at least not the ones i've met who started therapy early on.

 

[signer16]

Signer16
First you say this........I think what happens with deaf people at a school for the deaf is, whether or not they learn to speak, they are not shamed into not ever using their voices by the hearing world, and most of them do make some noise.


Then this........Maybe I am just part of a younger generation, but most deaf people I meet don't care if other deaf people are voicing, as long as they are signing as well, but many hearing people will make fun of a deaf person's speech

Apparently my turn to not be clear. I think that AT A SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF, the hearing world isn't there to shame them into not using their voices,most people there are deaf, and the hearing ones there are usually involved with the deaf community, and wouldn't usually make fun of a deaf person's speech. BUT, in the bigger hearing world, where there are more hearing people, ignorant of the abilities of deaf people, they make fun of deaf voices, make sense?

Also, if you are talking and signing at the same time, you can bet your bottom dollar it is not ASL.

I agree! Nearly impossible to sim-com and sign ASL for any real length of time, unless it is rehearsed or something. If I said something to the contrary, then oops.
Do realize that I am playing devil's advocate with Passivist here. I'm also waiting for Passivist to elaborate on things with her partner and mother, what the separation was about, the daughter's speaking ability, mom's signing, and countless other things...there is more to this story then has been stated so far. And sad, I am going to be gone for about 2 1/2 weeks, can't continue this debate much longer. Been interesting though!