California School for the Deaf - Crappy Education?

or can it be parents too? i believe parents should be involved into english skills, and any other skills.

I believe most students in California school for the deaf are foregin students that move to USA? if so, that can be another factor since english isn't their language, and the parents aren't english language themself as well....

if not, it can be the parents who aren't willing to learn ASL... its so sad to see many parents around here aren't willing to learn ASL and they prefer to speak to their kid by home signs, speaking, lipreading, or something. Parents need to do this in order to keep their kid well educated so they can communicate and help, tutor, and so on.. most important factor is read ur kid a book every night before bed or encourage ur kid to read a book everyday.. most parents who isn't aware of ASL or other communication methods to communicate with their fellow Deaf son/daughter don't do this cuz they don't know how.. thats probally another factor beside it..


I think the whole school system not just Deaf school is having this similar problem..
Here in my town.. the school average is lower than state and national average in reading and math. i mean WAY below.. and its a hearing school.

My option.. that school should change a new system.. having more focus on English, reading, math, social like having more homeworks related to it by reading a book.. and giving a challenge homework not a simple one. and offer tutor(if they don't have one)
 
Banjo said:
I'll love to see these information, it would be wonderful if your mother can get these information. :)
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I got her response. Unfortunately that my mother no longer have the access to do that. She said she can send me CSDR information but I told her that you already have it. Sorry about it but I already asked her if she can ask some teachers about these information to see if they can find the infos about this topic. I guess we will find out tomorrow and such.
 
hearing students in the same county are doing far, far better than most of the deaf schools in the USA and Canada.
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Depends....compared to say an inner city high school or compared to a typical suburban school? Compared to ESL (English As a Second Language) students?
We once had an exchange student from Sweden, her first language was Swedish while she had English as her second language and she beat everybody out at my school on the honour rolls, how about that?
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Yes, and? There are people who have a flair for second languages...That doesn't mean that everyone who learns that language is going to kick butt in it. I'm pretty good at ASL, BUT am not as good as a native speaker or a DODA.
Being poor is no excuse for being illiterate, I wasn't rich either. In fact, we were kinda pretty poor at times. Yet I managed to get through with it. Now, about the rich students... it's a myth many deaf advocates tend to use. In fact, I had several classmates whose parents you would consider to be above middle-class or more; yet they often got C or D on their English tests, sometimes F.
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True.....but research and statistics bear me out that middle class and wealthy kids do much better academicly and on standarized testing then do poor kids! It is NOT a myth that many deaf advocates use....Economic class is the NEW class system!
Parents need to be involved with their children's literacy development, the first 5 years is the most crucial. Yet many parents neglected this because they gave up too quick and put them in deaf schools thinking it'll be a quick solution. Also, many parents are often told way too much misinformation on how to educate a deaf child. I've seen too much.

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Many if not most ESL students do not have great English skills



ESL students? Most deaf children are supposed to have English as their first language since their parents are hearing. There's no excuse for this, ASL is rarely a deaf child's first language to begin with. They often start to pick up ASL when they start attending the schools.
Well oral first hypothesizes that a deaf child should master English as their first language....but if a lot of oral kids aren't fluent in English to begin with...if oralism does allegdedly produce better educated kids, then it's obviously not doing it's job!
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....it's like the way I can stumble along in French and have a conversation, BUT I am not totally fluent in it...I don't know the slang, and the syntax is hard for me. A native French speaker would probaly look at my French grammer and think that it was written by a child instead of a 25 year old.



Well, Americans speak English, not French. So yeah, I would expect that to happen to me too if I tried to speak French because I didn't grow up with it.
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No, you miss my point. Research has proven that ASLers approach English as a SECOND language. They make the same grammartical and syntaxial errors as do native speakers of other languages! That's basicly what the bi-bi philosophy is based around...learning English as a SECOND language! Besides, English syntax and grammar is HARD even for native speakers (I am currently taking an editing course, and I speak as an educated intellectucal type) Go to a message board that has a lot of native speakers of spoken languages, who write in English. Then compare the sentances and syntax, and grammar to the kind used here....you'll see almost virtually identicial mistakes. I mean haven't you ever heard of those books that have examples of mangled English from other countries....Are you feel better? Place the manicotti sidewise in an only couch and countless examples like that!

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Also poor kids tend to have less involved parents...which significently affects performance levels!



Actually, it's the same with middle-class and rich parents when it come to deaf children. I see it all of the times. Many of the students at the school I used to attend had rich parents, yet they weren't doing too well.




Of course, it's not just the methods. Parents need to get more involved with their children rather than sending them off to deaf schools and get to see them on the weekends, sometimes not at all because they may be sleeping at friends' places.
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Yes, parents need to get more involved with their kids but there are many instances where going to a deaf school would be much better...like if the parents didn't have the skills to raise their kids, or if they were homeless or whatever. I definitly think that like it should be easier for


A child should only be rewarded for working hard. Rewards do make a child feel important and appreciated which give them the inspiration to do more and that shows determination. But nowdays, too many children are just spoiled.
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Huh? No, my point is that many oral/mainstream sucesses are from families that really push acheivement. You know the hyperschudled ones who will do anything to get little Katie into Harvard?
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DeafSCUBA98 said:
or can it be parents too? i believe parents should be involved into english skills, and any other skills.

I believe most students in California school for the deaf are foregin students that move to USA? if so, that can be another factor since english isn't their language, and the parents aren't english language themself as well....

if not, it can be the parents who aren't willing to learn ASL... its so sad to see many parents around here aren't willing to learn ASL and they prefer to speak to their kid by home signs, speaking, lipreading, or something. Parents need to do this in order to keep their kid well educated so they can communicate and help, tutor, and so on.. most important factor is read ur kid a book every night before bed or encourage ur kid to read a book everyday.. most parents who isn't aware of ASL or other communication methods to communicate with their fellow Deaf son/daughter don't do this cuz they don't know how.. thats probally another factor beside it..


I think the whole school system not just Deaf school is having this similar problem..
Here in my town.. the school average is lower than state and national average in reading and math. i mean WAY below.. and its a hearing school.

My option.. that school should change a new system.. having more focus on English, reading, math, social like having more homeworks related to it by reading a book.. and giving a challenge homework not a simple one. and offer tutor(if they don't have one)
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Well said! It's not only school but parents, too!

I beleive it would be great if the parents learn sign language for their deaf children's sake which it would help to improve their children's education.

I know from experience what I had been through because my parents never have time to learn to know me anything but get my 1 year young sister translate me for them. During my childhood, I was neglected by my parents.
My sister learn sign language automaic from me during our childhood. We feel neglect by our parents thats got my sister consider me.
 
I just went to TN.gov site to find the reports on Tennessee SD. I'm under the impression that such reports are readily available only to these given the user id/passwords. I will ask my aunt (she is a staff secretary of a district school in that state) if she could get in without getting in trouble. I think having news investigators/reporters doing a story, they probably can get the restricted reports with no problems.

I don't see any reason to keep deaf schools open if education haven't improved much over the years. Deaf children are better off being schooled closer to their parents/guardians!
 
Magatsu said:
That site sometimes acted up for some reasons. It works fine at this moment. Try and click it.

Speaking of Bush, I am not saying that the problems be linked to Bush... I was saying that I don't think we can pull the politics out of education under his term due to few new bills.

Speaking of this issue, well, my solution to this problem: if I happen to have a deaf child... either way, homeschooling or move to Sweden. I absolutely refused to send my future child (if deaf) to mainstreamed schools. By that, I mean if nothing changes in either way deaf or hearing schools.
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What is mainstreamed school stand?
 
if I happen to have a deaf child... either way, homeschooling or move to Sweden. I absolutely refused to send my future child (if deaf) to mainstreamed schools. By that, I mean if nothing changes in either way deaf or hearing schools.
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Well.....I think that deaf schools do suck, but I think that deaf schools early intervention programs are AWESOME! I would start out my kids in a school for the deaf so they wouldn't fall through the cracks or anything. After all, I haven't been educated to teach so I don't know if I'd be able to do a good job.
Banjo....I bet a lot of dhh mainstream students' acheivement levels are simalir as to the kids in the deaf schools. You see poor acheivement levels are high b/c special ed kids are grouped together so things seem worse then they actually are! Do you understand? I also would never send my child to a mainstream school....Some of the support is good, but all in all mainstream schools are geared to educate the mythical average student, and they don't really make allowence for deviations from the norm. GIFTED kids often struggle in the mainstream as well! (and their problems and concerns are very simalir to kids who recieve special ed services or who are sped! )
 
I enjoying myself to read all of your posts over deaf education. It's interesting. I really dont know what I should say because my children are hearing.

I collect cons and pros from my German friends what good or bad deaf school in Bavaria, Germany. Most say that Deaf education in Munich, Essen and few others is the best. ***strugg***

I would do something when my child is deaf.

To my opinion, I beleive it's positive for the teacher use sign language to pupils/students because it's easier for them to understand what the teacher talking about. They will learn quickly.

My hubby's school is oral school. He described me how he feel. It's stress for deaf children to consider teacher's lips than learn something what the teacher want to educate them.

First of all the parents need to look and collect pros and cons over deaf school before they decide to put their children to right school.
 
Be honest with you guys, U will have to remeber the state who can afford to spend with new education and it will improve them to learn with english skills, also we only have few college with a better teachers.. it's not alway be cailforina.. it's counts ALLLLLL deaf schools it will depend how state can afford to pay.

For a exmaple, Neb school for the deaf, the state can't afford to pay them so they decide to close them so state can save the budget.

I am aware that deaf don't have the english skill because they don't want to learn.. some of teacher aren't teaching enuf, don't have a right education books, don't have enuf money to get a high level books,

I believe that MSSD is the HIGH level of the education because they use a college *gallaudet* level.

I know it's kinda stupid to feel depend with State but we aren't rich, there are no choice to depend..
 
Yeah, I was educated thru CSDF, the teachers weren't that great. Some had anger problems, fustrated. It was pretty nasty sometimes, PLAS group of High School were having fun going on class field trips often, while our high school level were busy studying and doing homeworks. Boy, I really sucked in math because of too many furious math teachers in middle school and some in high school. It was hard for me.

That's bad education, the scores I saw were bad. Maybe, California state will decide to close both schools because of the scores are not worth continuing on their budget. I believe it cost California millions of wasted money to the deaf schools not doing good. I won't be suprised that California decides to close down the Deaf schools in the future.
 
sequoias said:
Yeah, I was educated thru CSDF, the teachers weren't that great. Some had anger problems, fustrated. It was pretty nasty sometimes, PLAS group of High School were having fun going on class field trips often, while our high school level were busy studying and doing homeworks. Boy, I really sucked in math because of too many furious math teachers in middle school and some in high school. It was hard for me.

That's bad education, the scores I saw were bad. Maybe, California state will decide to close both schools because of the scores are not worth continuing on their budget. I believe it cost California millions of wasted money to the deaf schools not doing good. I won't be suprised that California decides to close down the Deaf schools in the future.
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i agree.. i have seen several minneapolis schools had been closed, because of their lack of education and other reasons too.
 
Yeah, I was educated thru CSDF, the teachers weren't that great.
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That is probaly b/c a lot of the talented TODs are attracted to private practice where they can make a lot of money....I think that schools for the Deaf should receive an INCREASE in funding so they can attract and compete with private schools!
 
They are crappy schools. Been to CSDR once and they did not teach me anything but limited me to the lowest grade. Also I had to put up with other kids who had behaviors problems. Their parents cant handle them so they send their deaf kids away to the resdiental school. I was stuck with them. If I had a deaf child, I would never send my deaf child to any residental school. Been there and know how much damaged they put on us.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Banjo,

I got this link with message from Canadian friend.

"We both know who is a bi-bi advocate, firmly believes in ASL as a language and will be forever immersed in Deaf culture because they all exist much to your opposition."
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I get the idea who this message is from. This friend of yours only experienced a year of deaf education while I experienced it for years. That is if your friend happen to be a Boston Terrier lover. Your friend miss my point... as usual! I'm not Anti-ASL, she need to get a grip on that fact. Also, she's hard of hearing, not deaf. Culturally Deaf is not the same as actually being deaf. Big, big, big difference when it come to deaf education. She don't know what it's like to be in the shoes of a deaf person, period.

Heck, I would even say she's a phoney. She don't know shit when it come to deaf education.

You see... there's a big difference between socialization and education when it come to deaf issues. Deaf education is where your friend lack the knowledge in. No offense, but I'll rather discuss these matters with the ones who actually does know something regarding deaf education, or with experiences.

The Bi-Bi approach at Ernest C. Drury School for the Deaf is a major failure. Pretty much a fact if you ask me since I've witnessed it firsthand for years. Liebling, you don't even live in Canada nor USA... you really don't know how things work around here. What your friend missed is the fact that CSDF/R practices the Bi-Bi approach, they've been doing it for years, yet look at these test results. They are pretty awful, aren't they? It isn't making any improvements. I also remember from some other forums that Texas School for the Deaf was one of the worst schools too as well. From what I believe, many schools are now practicing this "Bi-Bi education" approach. But it is not making any improvements.

"Bilingual Bicultural education is first and foremost an empowering education". "An empowering education teaches Deaf students to develop the confidence necessary to exercise their basic rights, accept their responsibilities, to advocate and to learn to participate in the decision making process."
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Gary Malkowski said this, and he's a politican. He only lasted a term. How is Bi-Bi education an empowering education? It has been used at Ernest C. Drury school for the deaf for years and yet... the students aren't more empowered than they were before. What a bunch of baloney.

My point is... the Bi-Bi education is a joke. It's only a tool that the Deaf militants tried to shove into the schools without any studies to back it up. Maybe it does work in Germany or some other countries with different languages. But it doesn't work with English here. Plus, Bi-Bi education "encourages" Deaf Culture which can be classified as a religion, belief or cult by many. I'm not saying it is a cult, I believe it's a subculture with some made up beliefs, nothing more. I don't want ANY religions, cults, or anything that promotes a certain belief to be forced into the public classrooms.

All I want the teachers to do is to teach the children how to write, figure out the math problems, understanding the science of chemistry, how important it is to exercise, the history of Canada... and many more. Even they can be taught about who was the first deaf teacher in Canada which can be taught in history classes. But there is absolutely no reason why we should have Deaf Studies classes in schools. I just want children to live in innocence as they are meant to and not be dragged into the political crossfires like they are now.
 
Banjo said:
I get the idea who this message is from. This friend of yours only experienced a year of deaf education while I experienced it for years. That is if your friend happen to be a Boston Terrier lover. Your friend miss my point... as usual! I'm not Anti-ASL, she need to get a grip on that fact. Also, she's hard of hearing, not deaf. Culturally Deaf is not the same as actually being deaf. Big, big, big difference when it come to deaf education. She don't know what it's like to be in the shoes of a deaf person, period.

Heck, I would even say she's a phoney. She don't know shit when it come to deaf education.
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Banjo.... *ahem* It isn't nice to call someone a "phoney" rather she is hard of hearing or not, and doesn't know about the deaf education, I think every person who is hard of hearing or deaf knows the deaf education. I am also deaf and I have not been in an all deaf school but I do know about everything that's involved in Deaf education. ;) *peace out*


I also agrees with CoolieFroggie, The Teachers are not teaching the Deaf the equal way of teaching the hearings or students involved in Mainstream. :)
 
Banjo, okay you know who is.

You mentioned that a friend is hard of hearing and only has experienced a year of deaf education but I thought you know that her family since 6th generation are deaf. Right? If yes, she must have known what ASL culture is because she raised up by her deaf parents.

Yes, Banjo you were right that I didnt know anything about US and Canada but Germany.

As I know from seeing myself that bi-bi is good and meaningful for the deaf children.
 
You mentioned that a friend is hard of hearing and only has experienced a year of deaf education but I thought you know that her family since 6th generation are deaf. Right? If yes, she must have known what ASL culture is because she raised up by her deaf parents.
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Yes, I'm aware of the family background. But that doesn't mean she automatically know more regarding deaf education. As I said before, there's a difference between deaf education and deaf socialization. This person is more experienced in deaf socialization than she is in deaf education.

Now, enough about this person. Please don't mention her again since she isn't a member here.

As I know from seeing myself that bi-bi is good and meaningful for the deaf children.
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That may as well be true in Germany. But not in the USA nor Canada. The problem here in Canada and America is that it is simply not making any improvements after years of practicing the Bi-Bi education. Yet they are still using it.

Why use a method that has proven nothing for years?
 
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