Audism

jillio said:
That is where you are making your mistake in your definition. Audism is not that simple. Even the deaf, who are aware of all of the above, can be audist in their thinking.
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Which is why I mentioned that explicitly in my last 2 lines.
 
GrendelQ said:
So, let's say your child is deaf. Maybe no aids, maybe with HAs or CIs.

Because your child is deaf, a neighbor won't allow your child on his baseball team or in his club, won't permit his child to date your child, and later, he won't hire your qualified child.

But by your definition, that's not audism, because he fully approves of your child attending a Deaf school, using sign-only, interacting within Deaf society and not adapting to Hearing conventions.
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It appears that you have not read my full post, only the first half. Read the rest.
 
BecLak said:
It appears that you have not read my full post, only the first half. Read the rest.
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I have. Are you referring to the requirement to wear HAs and so on or be deemed broken? That's why I mentioned maybe with HAs, maybe without.
 
jillio said:
In accepting the validity of Deaf Culture and language, one also accepts the individual belonging to that culture and using that language. That is the part you are leaving out.
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Not necessarily. Someone can accept that the Deaf have a distinct and valid culture and a viable language, and that they do not need to adapt to hearing culture by using HAs, CIs, spoken language. But that perspective of equal if separate doesn't necessarily mean that person will treat those Deaf individuals without discrimination in "hearing environments."
 
GrendelQ said:
Not necessarily. Someone can accept that the Deaf have a distinct and valid culture and a viable language, and that they do not need to adapt to hearing culture by using HAs, CIs, spoken language. But that perspective of equal if separate doesn't necessarily mean that person will treat those Deaf individuals without discrimination in "hearing environments."
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And that is accepting the validity of the culture, but not the individual, which is still audism.
 
jillio said:
And that is accepting the validity of the culture, but not the individual, which is still audism.
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Yes, I agree. That's why I don't think Beclak's original statement works as a definition of audism. Someone can accept that the Deaf have a distinct and valid culture and a viable language, and that they do not need to adapt to hearing culture by using HAs, CIs, spoken language, and yet still not accept and treat a deaf individual as an equal, discriminating because of hearing status.
 
GrendelQ said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I don't think Beclak's original statement works as a definition of audism. Someone can accept that the Deaf have a distinct and valid culture and a viable language, and that they do not need to adapt to hearing culture by using HAs, CIs, spoken language, and yet still not accept and treat a deaf individual as an equal, discriminating because of hearing status.
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You are confusing some things here. Your example has nothing to do with cultural adaptation.
 
jillio said:
You are confusing some things here. Your example has nothing to do with cultural adaptation.
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My example has to do with audism. Beclak referred to cultural adaptation.
 
Grendel said:

not because of a cultural or language choice
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This is the flaw in your analysis. The hearing world *does* perceive being part of the Deaf community a language/culture choice. Most hearing people consider it a rejection of hearing culture. Sure, it's their ignorance that causes this misconception perception, but the end result is still the same.
 
sallylou said:
Grendel said:



This is the flaw in your analysis. The hearing world *does* perceive being part of the Deaf community a language/culture choice. Most hearing people consider it a rejection of hearing culture. Sure, it's their ignorance that causes this misconception perception, but the end result is still the same.
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:ty:
 
sallylou said:
Grendel said:



This is the flaw in your analysis. The hearing world *does* perceive being part of the Deaf community a language/culture choice. Most hearing people consider it a rejection of hearing culture. Sure, it's their ignorance that causes this misconception perception, but the end result is still the same.
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It may be that you've encountered many more hearing people who are already familiar with Deaf culture than I have and who see deafness as a cultural choice rather than as a physical or medical situation or disability.

I'm not saying I have more or better experience, just different: but in my experience before, and in my encounters with hearing people since the happy moment when my deaf daughter came into my life, and in what I've read, I've found that the majority of hearing people are unaware that a Deaf culture exists, unaware that there's been a choice made, much less seeing the use of ASL as a rejection of hearing culture. They consider deafness to be a physical, not a cultural state.

It seems that discrimination is made much less on the basis of a cultural choice, and much more on the faulty perception that deaf people are "unable" to perform job duties, to interact as equals, somehow inferior because they are deaf. Not because they are Deaf.

It is common to find cases where hearing aid users are not provided equal access to jobs or opportunities, or that those with typical hearing consider themselves superior to an oral deaf HA wearer -- even if that deaf person is not integrated into Deaf culture or does not self-identify as Deaf. I think audism is as Tom Humphries defined it in the 70s: when a person thinks that one is superior based on one’s ability to hear or behave in the manner of one who hears. It can and does happen even when neither the victim nor the person discriminating or oppressing have a familiarity with or participate in Deaf culture and even to deaf people who don't use ASL.
 
GrendelQ said:
It may be that you've encountered many more hearing people who are already familiar with Deaf culture than I have and who see deafness as a cultural choice rather than as a physical or medical situation or disability.

I'm not saying I have more or better experience, just different: but in my experience before, and in my encounters with hearing people since the happy moment when my deaf daughter came into my life, and in what I've read, I've found that the majority of hearing people are unaware that a Deaf culture exists, unaware that there's been a choice made, much less seeing the use of ASL as a rejection of hearing culture. They consider deafness to be a physical, not a cultural state.

It seems that discrimination is made much less on the basis of a cultural choice, and much more on the faulty perception that deaf people are "unable" to perform job duties, to interact as equals, somehow inferior because they are deaf. Not because they are Deaf.

It is common to find cases where hearing aid users are not provided equal access to jobs or opportunities, or that those with typical hearing consider themselves superior to an oral deaf HA wearer -- even if that deaf person is not integrated into Deaf culture or does not self-identify as Deaf. I think audism is as Tom Humphries defined it in the 70s: when a person thinks that one is superior based on one’s ability to hear or behave in the manner of one who hears. It can and does happen even when neither the victim nor the person discriminating or oppressing have a familiarity with or participate in Deaf culture and even to deaf people who don't use ASL.
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Knowledge of Deaf culture is not a prerequisite to being an audist.
 
It may be that you've encountered many more hearing people who are already familiar with Deaf culture than I have and who see deafness as a cultural choice rather than as a physical or medical situation or disability.
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No, hearing people around me, including my family, consider deafness a medical/physical issue. People in my life don't understand why I joined Deaf culture (except my husband). Everyone thinks that I should "adjust" in the way that causes the least convenience to them. That is, I should be hearing, even though that's not possible.

I see this clearly because I'm a late-deafened person caught between both worlds. I look at both sides of the issue.

You're never going to see how hearing people perceive the Deaf because you're not deaf. Your daughter will experience it. Having been through it, I honestly don't think that anyone can understand until he/she loses her hearing. You are part of the Deaf community and you have your own experiences with the Deaf community. It's still not the experience of a Deaf person.

I understand that you want to protect your daughter and give her as many opportunities as you can. That's what all mothers want for their children. At some point, you have to accept that your child is an individual person who will have some experiences you can't understand or share. That will become more clear later when your child is older. Adolescence is a while ride from a parent's perspective. Suddenly, there are problems that you can't fix or even intrude upon. I miss those days when mommy's kiss was magical.

You're doing the right thing for your daughter and she will become a well-adjusted person, no doubt. I hope that you don't take this personally and become defensive. I'm telling you the truth so that you can understand better.
 
sallylou said:
You're never going to see how hearing people perceive the Deaf because you're not deaf. Your daughter will experience it. Having been through it, I honestly don't think that anyone can understand until he/she loses her hearing.
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But that's just it: you once did, and I have also seen the Deaf world from outside. The way Hearing people see it. And they don't look at it as a cultural choice to be d/Deaf, most look at it as a medical/physical state, a disability.

I'm not saying I see the world as a deaf person. I do see the world as a hearing person, which I am. I'm saying that most Hearing people aren't perpetrating audism in response to what they see as a cultural choice. Because they don't know anything about those cultural choices. They are behaving in an audist way, discriminating against the deaf because they have a misconception that hearing status has something to do with being superior or inferior.
 
GrendelQ said:
It may be that you've encountered many more hearing people who are already familiar with Deaf culture than I have and who see deafness as a cultural choice rather than as a physical or medical situation or disability.

I'm not saying I have more or better experience, just different: but in my experience before, and in my encounters with hearing people since the happy moment when my deaf daughter came into my life, and in what I've read, I've found that the majority of hearing people are unaware that a Deaf culture exists, unaware that there's been a choice made, much less seeing the use of ASL as a rejection of hearing culture. They consider deafness to be a physical, not a cultural state.

It seems that discrimination is made much less on the basis of a cultural choice, and much more on the faulty perception that deaf people are "unable" to perform job duties, to interact as equals, somehow inferior because they are deaf. Not because they are Deaf.

It is common to find cases where hearing aid users are not provided equal access to jobs or opportunities, or that those with typical hearing consider themselves superior to an oral deaf HA wearer -- even if that deaf person is not integrated into Deaf culture or does not self-identify as Deaf. I think audism is as Tom Humphries defined it in the 70s: when a person thinks that one is superior based on one’s ability to hear or behave in the manner of one who hears. It can and does happen even when neither the victim nor the person discriminating or oppressing have a familiarity with or participate in Deaf culture and even to deaf people who don't use ASL.
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The idea behind "parental choices" requires that one belive that deaf culture and ASL is something that came into existence by choices, or something that one can choose or not on behalf of a kid.

It's an insulting and audist belief.
 
People are very egocentric. People want other people to be like them. Hearing people just assume that people will hear. It's very odd, actually! I can't tell you how many people have shouted at me right after I tell them that I can't hear. It's weird but they just don't get it.
 
sallylou said:
People are very egocentric. People want other people to be like them. Hearing people just assume that people will hear. It's very odd, actually! I can't tell you how many people have shouted at me right after I tell them that I can't hear. It's weird but they just don't get it.
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Yes! Most audism is not a judgment or statement made against culture or language. it's just about the hearing or not.
 
sallylou said:
People are very egocentric. People want other people to be like them. Hearing people just assume that people will hear. It's very odd, actually! I can't tell you how many people have shouted at me right after I tell them that I can't hear. It's weird but they just don't get it.
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Sometimes, especially when I just want to relax, I've found myself to be egocentric. I don't care accomodate to hearing people sometimes. But I don't go that far as telling hearing people what's right and wrong with them, like some hearings here try to do.
 
It doesn't matter what motivates someone to be audist, or any other -ist behavior.

It seems like you're trying to defend hearing people. I don't understand why.
 
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